Without wishing to diminish my reputation for deep-seated pessimism I’d prefer to describe it as realism. It always depends what’s in the glass.
It feels like some are relying on hope and mathematics because that three-point gap is a chasm when viewed through the prism of yesterday’s performance. How many more ‘three points’ can we realistically expect following such a passive showing against mid-table fodder?
I envy those clinging on to hope of a top-seven finish because I have none after yesterday.
As much as any ingrained skills and traits Ainsworth would have had the advantage that when him and Dobbo set out a system most of the players will be well versed in what he's trying to get at, it'll take MB and his staff time to get that, it's a fairly pointless comparison though as we weren't going to be able to keep him.
Also let's not pretend everyone was happy with Ainsworths tactical choices week in week out. Sure as night follows day on here whoever we didn't pick or keep might be whatever we are missing , maybe they had their turns.
I though Scowen was perhaps not at his best yesterday, but other than that I wouldn't say we lacked intensity? Problem for me was up front where unfortunately we just don't have the right players available at the moment. For all Hanlan's strengths, he just doesn't have the physical presence of Vokes and the ability to hold up the ball. And whilst Campbell is promising, personally I'd much rather have him coming off the bench. Injuries have hit us just at the wrong time and it's worth remembering we struggled under GA for the first few months of the season when we had similar injury problems.
Re: Barnsley. Not winning when performing well is never a good sign.
We might be just three points off the play-off places but there are other factors that ought to be taken into consideration when assessing our chances. Performance being an obvious one. When everything is taken in consideration, relying on mathematics is a bit like wearing lucky pants.
It is a good sign to an extent if the team is consistently performing well (which we're not at the moment), unlike the fallacy that it's a good sign when a team wins while performing poorly.
I can't remember who said it but I echo the sentiments of whoever suggested that going up this season would likely be too soon for Bloomfield. He's still a rookie manager learning his skills and, while I like what I see so far, sticking him into the Championship this soon might be a test too far. While Ainsworth had earned the right to take us back down again without having his job on the line, I'm not sure Bloomfield has. I'd far prefer him to develop his managerial skills for a season in League One than lose his job by the end of September in the Championship.
The mathematics thing is surely just people saying that while we're still in it mathematically that's something to be proud of / we can't be that bad.
Winning while not playing well is a good sign too, we should know as a team that hasn't been possession heavy that there is value in keeping your heads up, putting in quality set pieces etc. Not winning while playing well is annoying but does rather depend on the performance of the opposition too and we tend to be a bit inward looking on here.
Wycombe aren't just 'mathematically' in it. We are three points behind with 8 games to go. I've not seen anyone mention mathematics before now and I'm interested to see what @glasshalfempty's meaning is
what are we doing In training causing so many injuries to our players , whatever we are doing we have to change it , we have missed some big players and with them we would defo be in the playoffs. the sports scientists at the club really have to question the management (new and old ) on how hard we are training them...as they have a duty of care to the players
How did you discover this information. Are League tables published? Are fixtures published? How do you know all this? What relevance does it have to my previous post? Are you some kind of wizard?
"We're only three points off the play-offs" is an example of a quote that is relying on mathematics.
If we stick with the mathematics theme, we currently have 61 points. We have collected just 8 points from a possible 21. We have 24 left to play for. I don't see much to rely on there.
Those who are relying on mathematics might also want to consider our current levels of performance, the current levels of performances of the clubs around us, the remaining fixtures of those clubs, including ourselves and the availability of players due to injury etc. This is why I have run of hope of a top-seven finish. It's not just deep-seated pessimism, it's realism.
Three is a number that is included in mathematics, correct.
I genuinely have not seen any post, or talked to any fan who is 'relying' on mathematics in any context. Of course, mathematics is extremely relevant because the number of points a football club accrues over a season determines their position at the end of a season.
Mathematics is intrinsically part of everybody's lives. From a pregnant mother raising a newborn child to a freelance juggler touring Slovakia. I have never experienced anyone 'relying' on mathematics. It's a ridiculous phrase.
It is of course fact. However I disagree that nobody is relying on it. Some are clinging to it as a reason to believe we can still finish in a play-off position. Which is perfectly understandable. It's based largely on optimism however, as opposed to realism, as I've attempted to explain above.
Comments
Without wishing to diminish my reputation for deep-seated pessimism I’d prefer to describe it as realism. It always depends what’s in the glass.
It feels like some are relying on hope and mathematics because that three-point gap is a chasm when viewed through the prism of yesterday’s performance. How many more ‘three points’ can we realistically expect following such a passive showing against mid-table fodder?
I envy those clinging on to hope of a top-seven finish because I have none after yesterday.
As much as any ingrained skills and traits Ainsworth would have had the advantage that when him and Dobbo set out a system most of the players will be well versed in what he's trying to get at, it'll take MB and his staff time to get that, it's a fairly pointless comparison though as we weren't going to be able to keep him.
Also let's not pretend everyone was happy with Ainsworths tactical choices week in week out. Sure as night follows day on here whoever we didn't pick or keep might be whatever we are missing , maybe they had their turns.
Tactics, schematics. My point was about intensity, not shapes or systems.
Comparison is inevitable, isn’t it? I’m going to try and stop it though, I don’t think it’s helping anyone.
@glasshalfempty How do you feel viewing things through the prism of an 'unlcuky loss we deserved to win' performance against Barnsley?
I think it was meant as a joke?
@glasshalffull What do you mean by 'people relying on mathematics?'
I'm intrigued
I though Scowen was perhaps not at his best yesterday, but other than that I wouldn't say we lacked intensity? Problem for me was up front where unfortunately we just don't have the right players available at the moment. For all Hanlan's strengths, he just doesn't have the physical presence of Vokes and the ability to hold up the ball. And whilst Campbell is promising, personally I'd much rather have him coming off the bench. Injuries have hit us just at the wrong time and it's worth remembering we struggled under GA for the first few months of the season when we had similar injury problems.
@LX1 : There are 8 games left, so 24 points available.
One of those is Ipswich away, so assuming we get nothing there, we need 19 points from 7 games to get to 80.
That's an average of 2.7 points per game, which not even the top 2 are achieving.
Then even if we do get 80, it might still not be enough. But anything is possible, long shots do sometimes defy the odds.
Re: Barnsley. Not winning when performing well is never a good sign.
We might be just three points off the play-off places but there are other factors that ought to be taken into consideration when assessing our chances. Performance being an obvious one. When everything is taken in consideration, relying on mathematics is a bit like wearing lucky pants.
I wouldsuggest that not winning whilst performing well is a good sign for future performance.
But anyway I still have no idea what you mean by 'relying on mathematics'?
It is a good sign to an extent if the team is consistently performing well (which we're not at the moment), unlike the fallacy that it's a good sign when a team wins while performing poorly.
@bargepole i have a feeling that 78 points will qualify for the playoffs. Still a massively big ask especially with goal difference
I can't remember who said it but I echo the sentiments of whoever suggested that going up this season would likely be too soon for Bloomfield. He's still a rookie manager learning his skills and, while I like what I see so far, sticking him into the Championship this soon might be a test too far. While Ainsworth had earned the right to take us back down again without having his job on the line, I'm not sure Bloomfield has. I'd far prefer him to develop his managerial skills for a season in League One than lose his job by the end of September in the Championship.
Indeed a team winning whilst performing badly is a bad sign of future performance @ReturnToSenda
Are you able to unravel @glasshalffull 's 'relying on mathematics' quote?
The mathematics thing is surely just people saying that while we're still in it mathematically that's something to be proud of / we can't be that bad.
Winning while not playing well is a good sign too, we should know as a team that hasn't been possession heavy that there is value in keeping your heads up, putting in quality set pieces etc. Not winning while playing well is annoying but does rather depend on the performance of the opposition too and we tend to be a bit inward looking on here.
Wycombe aren't just 'mathematically' in it. We are three points behind with 8 games to go. I've not seen anyone mention mathematics before now and I'm interested to see what @glasshalfempty's meaning is
Do I take it that you’re not wearing lucky pants? I haven’t changed my special pair since Torquay and just look what we’ve achieved since.
what are we doing In training causing so many injuries to our players , whatever we are doing we have to change it , we have missed some big players and with them we would defo be in the playoffs. the sports scientists at the club really have to question the management (new and old ) on how hard we are training them...as they have a duty of care to the players
How did you discover this information. Are League tables published? Are fixtures published? How do you know all this? What relevance does it have to my previous post? Are you some kind of wizard?
"We're only three points off the play-offs" is an example of a quote that is relying on mathematics.
If we stick with the mathematics theme, we currently have 61 points. We have collected just 8 points from a possible 21. We have 24 left to play for. I don't see much to rely on there.
Those who are relying on mathematics might also want to consider our current levels of performance, the current levels of performances of the clubs around us, the remaining fixtures of those clubs, including ourselves and the availability of players due to injury etc. This is why I have run of hope of a top-seven finish. It's not just deep-seated pessimism, it's realism.
Now this is a level of commitment to aspire to. I feel for your missus mind.
With our injury list why don't we recall Horgan? Can't tell me he's not a better option that most we had on the bench yesterday.
Three is a number that is included in mathematics, correct.
I genuinely have not seen any post, or talked to any fan who is 'relying' on mathematics in any context. Of course, mathematics is extremely relevant because the number of points a football club accrues over a season determines their position at the end of a season.
Mathematics is intrinsically part of everybody's lives. From a pregnant mother raising a newborn child to a freelance juggler touring Slovakia. I have never experienced anyone 'relying' on mathematics. It's a ridiculous phrase.
Not sure that sort of thing is allowed in the league anymore.
"We're only three points off the play-offs" is a factual statement. Nobody is relying on it. It's a fact
'Five times four minus three equals seventeen,' is an example of a quote that is 'relying' on mathematics.
It's not a nebulous concept
It is of course fact. However I disagree that nobody is relying on it. Some are clinging to it as a reason to believe we can still finish in a play-off position. Which is perfectly understandable. It's based largely on optimism however, as opposed to realism, as I've attempted to explain above.
I've fallen for it @glasshalffull and want to know why you say 'top seven'
The top six are automatic/play-offs and we rely on that mathematics to maintain order in the Football League
We can't
Some people are relying on it