I'll still watch it whatever, yes it's wrong, it shouldn't be there we all know that, and it shouldn't be this time of year. But it's not the players fault, it'll be their dream to play in a world cup. It's the only time I'll ever watch other countries play each other (like today) but I don't mind, because its the world cup. The first one I can remember watching properly as a child was Argentina 78, and it just felt special and I've always watched ever since
I’m so wanting the players to fulfil their dreams and win this damn thing. I got my kids a wall chart each over the weekend, which I noticed before I went to bed they had begun to fill out with the 2-0 score yesterday. They are at a great age to remember this World Cup. I’m desperate for them to get home from school and watch as much footy as they like for a month, and in the back of my mind it makes me feel a bit sick.
Of all the World Cups I would rather win the least it’s this one, so it’s annoying that I’ve got a nagging feeling we are the only team (on our day) that have enough match winners to beat Brazil in this heat which is typical!
If we win, I’ve decided that I’ll never buy a celebratory T-shirt / similar that mentions the host nation on it.
We are starting to put a lot of pressure on the players, and as professionals they really need to have their heads 100% on each match.
Oh what a complete clusterfuck this whole thing is.
A controversy surrounding the 1978 World Cup was that Argentina had undergone a military coup of its democratic government only two years before the cup, which installed a dictatorship known as the National Reorganization Process. Less than a year before the World Cup, in September 1977, Interior Minister General Albano Harguindeguy, stated that 5,618 people had recently disappeared. The infamous Higher School of Mechanics of the Navy (known by its acronym ESMA) held concentration camp prisoners of the Dirty War and those held captive reportedly could hear the roars of the crowd during matches held at River Plate's Monumental Stadium, located only a mile away;[6] prompting echoes of Hitler's and Mussolini's alleged political manipulation of sports during the 1936 Berlin Olympics and 1934 FIFA World Cup.[7]
They were executing protesters just hundreds of yards from the central stadium.
Without any scruples or morality in deciding a venue for these eye-wateringly expensive tournaments (or seemingly any due process this time) you are left with bidders who are desperate to spend lots of money to make a point by hosting, not prioritising their own people's needs over their own aims, and trying to reframe the public view of their country by PR not public service.
The process is almost setup for dictators. When people tell you sport should stay out of politics they tend to ignore that sport is being used by regimes, and silence isn't always neutrality, it's sometimes taking the side of the oppressor.
For my part I'm not gonna watch the World Cup, but I wouldn't criticise anyone who does cause me not watching isn't gonna change anything about FIFA and so at the end of the day it's an emotional thing for me not a moral one. I can't find it in myself to support a team/tournament/FIFA that takes my support for granted to that extent. These "politics" are important to me so if they're not important to FIFA/the FA / the england team then I find it hard to put my heart and soul into caring about the team's success. But that's about how I personally feel about the World Cup and the national football team as symbols to me . So I'm not gonna tell anyone else I'm some kinda moral authority here xD
I think Western nations need to be a little more circumspect in their condemnation, especially given their history of colonialism & exploitation, as well as historic human rights abuses (or current in some cases).
For example there are only 10 countries in the world that have NEVER been engaged in a war or invaded by the UK; those that were invariably were exploited for resources etc.
I think that FIFA/IOC/EUFA need to take a long hard look at the process & criteria they use to award major tournaments & work out how they can use these to affect change towards more modern norms in the host nations. Clearly media & fan condemnation or team boycotts have little or no impact (e.g. Russia Olympics 1980).
Will I watch? Yes I will dip in & out but I am never that likely to watch every game etc.
Failure to take off goalie with pretty obvious concussion. Jenas - "this isn't a good look for the game" ..... unlike almost everything else also happening
Thats what I thought during the 1st half before we scored. Tafazolli is available to play for Iran but I have no idea why he hasn't been looked at in either a friendly or just to be a body in the squad. (He seems to be called up regularly on Football Manager - I know its not real!)
Idiot commentator on BBC thinks the booing during the Iranian national anthem was because the team weren’t singing. Maybe watch the news sometime mate.
I’m never quite sure what to make of this argument. You are right that England has a woeful historical record and continues to support abhorrent regimes at times. So do many other nations. Does that mean that they can never condemn abuses elsewhere? Even where they to learn from their pasts and demonstrate said learning? Not that I’m saying the establishment within England has learned but I do believe many individuals have.
So what about individuals within said countries? Take me. I was born in the 60s. My parents and their friends told racist jokes to me when I was a kid. It was modelled to me that using white male power and privilege was ok, it was how the world worked. I don’t think I really understood the impact of this until I was in my 40s when I went to university and had my eyes opened. Because of my past experiences and behaviours (failure to notice what was wrong and at times failure to challenge when I did) do I have a right to call out what I think is wrong? If not then logic dictates I must be silent. How does that help?
the problem in my eyes with sporting organisations making decisions on what criteria to use is that I’m not sure the majority of the world’s population has the same values I do. Importantly that doesn’t make them stupid, ill-educated or morally or otherwise inferior to me. I was saddened during the Brexit debate to see how some remainers chose to demonise leavers in that way (I was a fervent remainer). So what values do the sporting organisations pick? I’m left with wondering if every country should vote on whether their national team attends a year before the tournament begins, which is clearly unworkable and probably absurd.
I did not say we should be silent either as individuals or as a collective, I suggested that we should be more circumspect & dare I say it diplomatic. I have no reason not to believe that places like Qatar want to be better received by their trading & diplomatic partners & as such they are willing to move on a number of things e.g. engaging with the ILO to improve worker terms & conditions. There are other things that will take much longer to get these countries to move on, such as women's equality, but we need to work with & encourage them to change rather than just berating them.
You are also correct that much of the world does not share western mores or values on many topics & I agree it doesnt mean they are stupid, ill educated or morally inferior.
What we do need to do is insist on compliance with UN protocols & directives, but we cannot be selective. We therefore have to for example stop pandering to Isreal & turning a blind eye to their constant human rights & international law breaches in respect of their treatment of the Palestinian population; if that means we do to them what we did to South Africa then so be it. Of course it is difficult especially when there is a wide spectrum of views in one's own country much as we have today here. I would, however, contend that despite the disparity of views they are generally about how we implement those undelying principles rather than if they are right or wrong.
It is a very difficult issue & will not be easy to resolve, but it is an issue that cuts to the core of international relations & diplomacy.
On a brighter note good to see Saka, Bellingham, Rashford & Grealish get on the score sheet. It was also hugely predictable that VAR would ignore a blatant penalty earlier in the game & grant one for a lesser infringement later on...
History and the present are totally different things. Are you angry at the way the Vikings treated the monks at Lindisfarne? No, of course not, that would be ridiculous.
I am not perhaps because it was 1200 years ago or is it because I am an atheist Scottish socialist who has Irish & Viking blood in his ancestry.
However more pertinently for example should I be concerned about the Indian famine in WW2 given the man responsible is still lauded by many in this country as a national hero yet one who was clearly & by his own admission a racist.
Comments
I'll still watch it whatever, yes it's wrong, it shouldn't be there we all know that, and it shouldn't be this time of year. But it's not the players fault, it'll be their dream to play in a world cup. It's the only time I'll ever watch other countries play each other (like today) but I don't mind, because its the world cup. The first one I can remember watching properly as a child was Argentina 78, and it just felt special and I've always watched ever since
I predict the team that will win it will probably not spend most of their games hoofing the ball up towards two big centre backs
I’m so torn between how I 100% agree with this post and my next post below 👇
Re my post above 👆
I’m so wanting the players to fulfil their dreams and win this damn thing. I got my kids a wall chart each over the weekend, which I noticed before I went to bed they had begun to fill out with the 2-0 score yesterday. They are at a great age to remember this World Cup. I’m desperate for them to get home from school and watch as much footy as they like for a month, and in the back of my mind it makes me feel a bit sick.
Of all the World Cups I would rather win the least it’s this one, so it’s annoying that I’ve got a nagging feeling we are the only team (on our day) that have enough match winners to beat Brazil in this heat which is typical!
If we win, I’ve decided that I’ll never buy a celebratory T-shirt / similar that mentions the host nation on it.
We are starting to put a lot of pressure on the players, and as professionals they really need to have their heads 100% on each match.
Oh what a complete clusterfuck this whole thing is.
A controversy surrounding the 1978 World Cup was that Argentina had undergone a military coup of its democratic government only two years before the cup, which installed a dictatorship known as the National Reorganization Process. Less than a year before the World Cup, in September 1977, Interior Minister General Albano Harguindeguy, stated that 5,618 people had recently disappeared. The infamous Higher School of Mechanics of the Navy (known by its acronym ESMA) held concentration camp prisoners of the Dirty War and those held captive reportedly could hear the roars of the crowd during matches held at River Plate's Monumental Stadium, located only a mile away;[6] prompting echoes of Hitler's and Mussolini's alleged political manipulation of sports during the 1936 Berlin Olympics and 1934 FIFA World Cup.[7]
They were executing protesters just hundreds of yards from the central stadium.
Without any scruples or morality in deciding a venue for these eye-wateringly expensive tournaments (or seemingly any due process this time) you are left with bidders who are desperate to spend lots of money to make a point by hosting, not prioritising their own people's needs over their own aims, and trying to reframe the public view of their country by PR not public service.
The process is almost setup for dictators. When people tell you sport should stay out of politics they tend to ignore that sport is being used by regimes, and silence isn't always neutrality, it's sometimes taking the side of the oppressor.
For my part I'm not gonna watch the World Cup, but I wouldn't criticise anyone who does cause me not watching isn't gonna change anything about FIFA and so at the end of the day it's an emotional thing for me not a moral one. I can't find it in myself to support a team/tournament/FIFA that takes my support for granted to that extent. These "politics" are important to me so if they're not important to FIFA/the FA / the england team then I find it hard to put my heart and soul into caring about the team's success. But that's about how I personally feel about the World Cup and the national football team as symbols to me . So I'm not gonna tell anyone else I'm some kinda moral authority here xD
England have only ever won the World Cup in host nations were homosexuality is illegal. So we have that going for us.
Utterly disgraceful scenes. Football is so far behind.
I think Western nations need to be a little more circumspect in their condemnation, especially given their history of colonialism & exploitation, as well as historic human rights abuses (or current in some cases).
For example there are only 10 countries in the world that have NEVER been engaged in a war or invaded by the UK; those that were invariably were exploited for resources etc.
I think that FIFA/IOC/EUFA need to take a long hard look at the process & criteria they use to award major tournaments & work out how they can use these to affect change towards more modern norms in the host nations. Clearly media & fan condemnation or team boycotts have little or no impact (e.g. Russia Olympics 1980).
Will I watch? Yes I will dip in & out but I am never that likely to watch every game etc.
Failure to take off goalie with pretty obvious concussion. Jenas - "this isn't a good look for the game" ..... unlike almost everything else also happening
It also flies in the face of FIFA concussion protocols
Is Tafazolli eligible to play for Iran? If so, any reason why he’s not in the squad?
Are England getting 'Wycombed'?
They've seen us play.
Normal rules and regulations don't apply in Qatar!
He’s eligible but not of the required quality I would presume
Having watched the first half he definitely is of the required quality!
Forget all that.
Great start lads, let's win it.
They have 4 defenders who play in the Iranian league and 2 who play in Qatar. I can’t imagine they are good enough to play in the Championship.
Although on the other hand I bet they’ve never had a night out in Revs.
Thats what I thought during the 1st half before we scored. Tafazolli is available to play for Iran but I have no idea why he hasn't been looked at in either a friendly or just to be a body in the squad. (He seems to be called up regularly on Football Manager - I know its not real!)
Idiot commentator on BBC thinks the booing during the Iranian national anthem was because the team weren’t singing. Maybe watch the news sometime mate.
I’m never quite sure what to make of this argument. You are right that England has a woeful historical record and continues to support abhorrent regimes at times. So do many other nations. Does that mean that they can never condemn abuses elsewhere? Even where they to learn from their pasts and demonstrate said learning? Not that I’m saying the establishment within England has learned but I do believe many individuals have.
So what about individuals within said countries? Take me. I was born in the 60s. My parents and their friends told racist jokes to me when I was a kid. It was modelled to me that using white male power and privilege was ok, it was how the world worked. I don’t think I really understood the impact of this until I was in my 40s when I went to university and had my eyes opened. Because of my past experiences and behaviours (failure to notice what was wrong and at times failure to challenge when I did) do I have a right to call out what I think is wrong? If not then logic dictates I must be silent. How does that help?
the problem in my eyes with sporting organisations making decisions on what criteria to use is that I’m not sure the majority of the world’s population has the same values I do. Importantly that doesn’t make them stupid, ill-educated or morally or otherwise inferior to me. I was saddened during the Brexit debate to see how some remainers chose to demonise leavers in that way (I was a fervent remainer). So what values do the sporting organisations pick? I’m left with wondering if every country should vote on whether their national team attends a year before the tournament begins, which is clearly unworkable and probably absurd.
Good to see a game not involving WWFC lasting well over 2 hrs
I did not say we should be silent either as individuals or as a collective, I suggested that we should be more circumspect & dare I say it diplomatic. I have no reason not to believe that places like Qatar want to be better received by their trading & diplomatic partners & as such they are willing to move on a number of things e.g. engaging with the ILO to improve worker terms & conditions. There are other things that will take much longer to get these countries to move on, such as women's equality, but we need to work with & encourage them to change rather than just berating them.
You are also correct that much of the world does not share western mores or values on many topics & I agree it doesnt mean they are stupid, ill educated or morally inferior.
What we do need to do is insist on compliance with UN protocols & directives, but we cannot be selective. We therefore have to for example stop pandering to Isreal & turning a blind eye to their constant human rights & international law breaches in respect of their treatment of the Palestinian population; if that means we do to them what we did to South Africa then so be it. Of course it is difficult especially when there is a wide spectrum of views in one's own country much as we have today here. I would, however, contend that despite the disparity of views they are generally about how we implement those undelying principles rather than if they are right or wrong.
It is a very difficult issue & will not be easy to resolve, but it is an issue that cuts to the core of international relations & diplomacy.
On a brighter note good to see Saka, Bellingham, Rashford & Grealish get on the score sheet. It was also hugely predictable that VAR would ignore a blatant penalty earlier in the game & grant one for a lesser infringement later on...
History and the present are totally different things. Are you angry at the way the Vikings treated the monks at Lindisfarne? No, of course not, that would be ridiculous.
I am not perhaps because it was 1200 years ago or is it because I am an atheist Scottish socialist who has Irish & Viking blood in his ancestry.
However more pertinently for example should I be concerned about the Indian famine in WW2 given the man responsible is still lauded by many in this country as a national hero yet one who was clearly & by his own admission a racist.
One who has played 20 plus games in the Champions League and was on the winning side against Chelsea this season.
One who has played in the Champions League and Europa League in the last two seasons
One who has played in the Europa League
The other two defenders play in Iran
They are no mugs and getting to the Top 20 in the FIFA rankings would suggest they have a decent ability.
Hats off to Southgate and the team with a great entertaining performance.
Incidentally the right back is the spitting image of JJ. Sadegh Moharrami - Wikipedia