All of the above is obviously true. Two points that I feel haven’t been given enough emphasis:
✅I was not a fan of Lewis Wing in the past, mostly based on ‘effort’, a pretty blunt measure I know. Playing deep last night he was ‘different gravy’ despite the result. If others had played to his potential it would have been very different. Hope he keeps that role when the mid field terriers return.
❎What is McCarthy selected to achieve? Running round like a headless chicken, failing to control the simplest of balls, wildly over hitting hit n’ hope crosses not even looking up. Gaz likes effort I understand but in this case to what purpose?
I remember saying how frustrating it was during the Sheffield Wednesday game to have made the same mistake twice (on that occaision, conceding from an attacking free-kick, just as we'd done at Bolton). Last night we saw two more goals conceded that are very similar to others against us this season. The second goal comes from an almost identical position to where Burrows scored for Peterborough; the third is more or less the same goal that Exeter scored from a corner at their place. It would be a shame if this team didn't fulfil its potential this season because they keep making the same errors.
In theory you are correct to say that the referee is entitled to play advantage, however in the vast majority of incidents like this they will immediately blow for a free kick to the defending team. He also failed to play advantage to Wycombe on more than one occasion so that is inconsistency. I am told he said there was ‘minimal contact’ so why didn’t he caution Anis before the restart? Watching the highlights there was a clear push in the back on JJ just before their first goal and an equally obvious push in the back of Vokes in the Cambridge penalty box, more obvious than the push Vokes was alleged to have made for his disallowed goal. No one is blaming the referee for a defeat that was self inflicted due to poor defending, but his performance was unacceptable and should be highlighted.
Sitting 13th or 7th in October is irrelevant, especially in a division that is so tightly packed (10 clubs separated by just 3 points). We are six points off the playoff places with 31 games to play.
Unacceptable poor defending is spot on. I felt sorry for Alfie who tried his best to keep the defence together.
Grimmer and Obita both had poor games and Mc Carthy struggled at times.
Your assessment of the first goal stemming from a blatant push (right in front of me and the linesman), is spot on.
The second goal could have been easily avoided if Obita’s awareness of what was around him had been better, instead of struggling to clear the ball as he did, he could have just let the ball go over his head for a goal kick.
We saw both sides of what our season could be last night didn't we? Are we the team that played excellent football for 35 minutes in the first half, and surely only needed another goal to go on and claim a routine win, or are we the team that weren't organized in defence or subtle in attack that we saw in the second half.
The referee's poor decisions had a material impact on the result of the game, and that's hard to take, but i'm more and more concerned by how we let the end of the first half ruin the second. I'm worried that GA wasn't able to calm the team down, reorganize and encourage them to stick at it in the second half. Or if he tried to he failed.
The problem is that we nearly always lose games when we have more possession than the opposition. We just aren’t, at the moment, that good when we have a lot of the ball.
For the last few years we have been outstanding (on the whole) when we don’t have the ball, keeping our shape and everyone knowing what they are doing.
When we are allowed to keep the ball for long periods we just seem to lose our ability to concentrate in defence.
Not seen the supposed penalty shout but sounds ridiculous.
What on earth was Vokes' goal ruled out for?!?!?! They went down at every chance from corners and crosses by the looks of things. Wouldn't be surprised if they made the ref aware of it before the game.
Had a day to digest yesterday. First half going forward we were genuinely excellent. Scored 2 good goals (one absolutely scandalously ruled out), hit the post, and had numerous periods of really good passing football and sustained pressure. Really positive generally. Second half we let the frustrations get the better of us and played really poorly, reverting to a lot more long ball rubbish.
But defensively we are really, really missing Josh Scowen in the centre of the pitch to shield the defenders. Failing that, Dom Gape would be good, or even Curtis Thompson, but without any of them we are far too open. Nick Freeman has done well but isn’t a central midfielder in a two, hopefully we see him get more chances in the front 4 as he’s a lovely player. Lewis Wing was absolutely brilliant yesterday and since moving deeper has been great. Him and Scowen will be an excellent central midfield.
In defence itself, if we are playing a back 3 (I wish we wouldn’t unless we had Mawson, Forino and Taff all fit) I’m sorry but soldiering on with one centre back and 1 average league 1 full back and another full back who is past his best is not going to mean a team fighting at the top end of the league I’m afraid. Stryjek is a brilliant keeper but he can’t save everything!
In the front positions Sam Vokes is as good as we’ll ever have and we must start getting the ball into his feet more, he is so, so effective with quality balls into him. Much less so with long ball drivel. McCleary needs to be rested more appropriately and not flogged Saturday Tuesday Saturday, we have players of quality who can move in and out of the starting 11 (Kaikai, Horgan, Hanlan, Freeman) and need to rotate a bit more to keep Gareth fresh.
Hopefully a win on Saturday will get us all feeling a bit more positive. With a fully fit team we have a chance at the play offs but the drop in quality defensively in the squad (behind Taf, Mawson and Forino is huge) so we need everyone back fit as soon as possible.
Surely if a ref is to give a penalty he has to be certain a foul was committed. If for example the ref is uncertain then presumably there should be no pen, no yellow and no stopping play.
Another eg might where there's been contact, a player goes down but in the refs opinion not enough to warrant a penalty. Again probably would be harsh to give a yellow.
This is just to give egs of situations where it isn't a simple choice between a pen or a yellow for a 'dive'.
Of course if the ref thought it was a dive then he should have played on and after they scored given Mehmeti a yellow.
You are right to draw attention to what is ultimately a grey area and therefore a subjective opinion. However, I think most of us would agree there was sufficient contact in this instance to cause Anis to fall. I watched the YouTube highlights with a (presumably) unbiased commentator who said it was a clear penalty to which Cambridge fans responded that it was a clear dive. It’s the first time I have seen anyone accuse Anis of diving and I think that tells a story.
I've just watched the highlights for the first team and can understand why the ref didn't give it. The only contact is right arm of defender to Anis shoulder. Anis had overrun the ball and the other defender was going to get their first (I didn't think this prevents a foul from being awarded). Sometimes they are given and sometimes not, you can argue it is harsh on the side that doesn't benefit from the decision.
Cambridge first goal, JJ is pushed over and there is no free kick. Vokes equaliser is nothing different but Vokes goal gets ruled out. Not very consistent. Having said that Wing did a bad job on marking Knibbs, he should have been goal side. Mawson a bit slow to come across and cover. I was surprised to see Stryjek so far off his line, something he seems to do a lot and has generally got away with. I suspect he would have saved that if he was two or three yards deeper.
Cambridge 2nd goal, perhaps Obita should have brought the player down in the middle of the park as the play was building to allow us to reset. Obita clearance was horrendous but I understand why JJ was hesitant. If he rushed out to Lankester, Lankester then had an easy ball to an unmarked Ironside in the box. You can see JJ tries to cover the pass first to force him to shoot and then doesn't have enough time to get the block in.
Their 3rd was really poor, I don't know who was meant to be marking thier player.
Thank you! Just thinking about that first goal a little more, we've made three (arguably four) defensive positional errors and been punished. If only one of those players (Wing, Mawson and Stryjek) had got themselves in a better place then Knibbs should not have scored.
The fourth is JJ. Should he have been goalside of Ironside? Probably not, because if he hadn't have been fouled he would have won the header. What is not clear is if we were planning to have one in front (JJ) and one behind Mawson, which is a very common approach at throw ins. You'll also notice Obita is in front of his man, Freeman is marking someone Mehmeti could have marked. Overall, we didn't give ourselves a good defensive platform with a number of players being too high up the pitch or not goal side. Something for GA and Dobbo to work on.
I'd be interested to see how League One breaks down in terms of zonal/man-to-man/hybrid marking - I'm not sure if we're in a minority with m2m or not. The defending for that third goal was * extremely Alan Hansen voice * diabolical
Not sure about extra legs @Maline. Fresher legs or different legs perhaps but, if you’re looking for more defensive (ball winning) legs, the cupboard is looking a little bare.
Jack Young looks like the nearest to the injured midfield trio in his style and approach and is clearly highly rated for the future but, for whatever reason, he wasn’t even on the bench on Tuesday.
I think this is clearly a transitional season either way - and that's not ruling out it being a triumphant one. A lot of ageing players, a lot of players with contracts winding down, and an ongoing struggle for a clear identity, with very uneven performances. Injuries are one of the major headlines, especially with how they have gutted our midfield, but we are not scoring enough goals and have struggled to put teams away even more than usual. No matter what happens, to me it has the feel of a tunnel to a very different 23/24 season.
Happily, I think there is a strong young-ish core we can build around, even if every older player moved on (and they won't all move, of course).
Unfortunately, had the Cambridge match been last season I couldn’t see us losing that. If we’d brought on Bayo with 15 minutes to go it would have created pandemonium. I don’t think we realise how much we miss him in these situations.
With all due respect it is time to move on from that "excuse". We don't have Bayo anymore. There is no doubt that we miss his aura and persona, but the ship has sailed.
Without being too negative, and please don't take it this way, I'm just being realistic. Unless we achieve anything less than playoffs this season - next season is going to be a tough one to stomach. We are approaching a real transitional period. Two or three players (in particular) are more than likely with us on the premise that we go up this season.
Mawson, Taff and Vokes are almost certainties to leave (saying that, not sure Vokes will have that many takers unless he moves for the money and plays second fiddle for a Championship club, and we can only hope there won't be many willing to take a risk on the other two given their respective injury records).
McCleary, JJ - reaching the end of their careers.
Forino and Mehmeti likely to be poached. I'd like to think Forino will stay to develop further. There's no doubt Wycombe is a good place to do just that. Potentially Scowen and Wing too.
Thompson and Gape need to prove their fitness - the former unknown whether he will be at the same level after missing so much football. I feel so sorry for him.
Grimmer, Kaikai and Horgan likely to move on - not off their own backs'.
Obita not up to much this season.
Biggest two of them all - Ainsworth and Dobbo....
If we can hang in there til Christmas and strengthen in January, I'd like to think it will be so different. And it could be.......
Comments
All of the above is obviously true. Two points that I feel haven’t been given enough emphasis:
I remember saying how frustrating it was during the Sheffield Wednesday game to have made the same mistake twice (on that occaision, conceding from an attacking free-kick, just as we'd done at Bolton). Last night we saw two more goals conceded that are very similar to others against us this season. The second goal comes from an almost identical position to where Burrows scored for Peterborough; the third is more or less the same goal that Exeter scored from a corner at their place. It would be a shame if this team didn't fulfil its potential this season because they keep making the same errors.
In theory you are correct to say that the referee is entitled to play advantage, however in the vast majority of incidents like this they will immediately blow for a free kick to the defending team. He also failed to play advantage to Wycombe on more than one occasion so that is inconsistency. I am told he said there was ‘minimal contact’ so why didn’t he caution Anis before the restart? Watching the highlights there was a clear push in the back on JJ just before their first goal and an equally obvious push in the back of Vokes in the Cambridge penalty box, more obvious than the push Vokes was alleged to have made for his disallowed goal. No one is blaming the referee for a defeat that was self inflicted due to poor defending, but his performance was unacceptable and should be highlighted.
Sitting 13th or 7th in October is irrelevant, especially in a division that is so tightly packed (10 clubs separated by just 3 points). We are six points off the playoff places with 31 games to play.
I would definitely NOT ditch 3 at the back IF Messrs Mawson, Taff and Forino are available.
Unacceptable poor defending is spot on. I felt sorry for Alfie who tried his best to keep the defence together.
Grimmer and Obita both had poor games and Mc Carthy struggled at times.
Your assessment of the first goal stemming from a blatant push (right in front of me and the linesman), is spot on.
The second goal could have been easily avoided if Obita’s awareness of what was around him had been better, instead of struggling to clear the ball as he did, he could have just let the ball go over his head for a goal kick.
We saw both sides of what our season could be last night didn't we? Are we the team that played excellent football for 35 minutes in the first half, and surely only needed another goal to go on and claim a routine win, or are we the team that weren't organized in defence or subtle in attack that we saw in the second half.
The referee's poor decisions had a material impact on the result of the game, and that's hard to take, but i'm more and more concerned by how we let the end of the first half ruin the second. I'm worried that GA wasn't able to calm the team down, reorganize and encourage them to stick at it in the second half. Or if he tried to he failed.
The January window is going to be fascinating.
The problem is that we nearly always lose games when we have more possession than the opposition. We just aren’t, at the moment, that good when we have a lot of the ball.
For the last few years we have been outstanding (on the whole) when we don’t have the ball, keeping our shape and everyone knowing what they are doing.
When we are allowed to keep the ball for long periods we just seem to lose our ability to concentrate in defence.
Not seen the supposed penalty shout but sounds ridiculous.
What on earth was Vokes' goal ruled out for?!?!?! They went down at every chance from corners and crosses by the looks of things. Wouldn't be surprised if they made the ref aware of it before the game.
I’m sceptical that we’ll do any business in January unless our hand is forced by the sale of Mehmeti or (at a pinch) Forino.
Had a day to digest yesterday. First half going forward we were genuinely excellent. Scored 2 good goals (one absolutely scandalously ruled out), hit the post, and had numerous periods of really good passing football and sustained pressure. Really positive generally. Second half we let the frustrations get the better of us and played really poorly, reverting to a lot more long ball rubbish.
But defensively we are really, really missing Josh Scowen in the centre of the pitch to shield the defenders. Failing that, Dom Gape would be good, or even Curtis Thompson, but without any of them we are far too open. Nick Freeman has done well but isn’t a central midfielder in a two, hopefully we see him get more chances in the front 4 as he’s a lovely player. Lewis Wing was absolutely brilliant yesterday and since moving deeper has been great. Him and Scowen will be an excellent central midfield.
In defence itself, if we are playing a back 3 (I wish we wouldn’t unless we had Mawson, Forino and Taff all fit) I’m sorry but soldiering on with one centre back and 1 average league 1 full back and another full back who is past his best is not going to mean a team fighting at the top end of the league I’m afraid. Stryjek is a brilliant keeper but he can’t save everything!
In the front positions Sam Vokes is as good as we’ll ever have and we must start getting the ball into his feet more, he is so, so effective with quality balls into him. Much less so with long ball drivel. McCleary needs to be rested more appropriately and not flogged Saturday Tuesday Saturday, we have players of quality who can move in and out of the starting 11 (Kaikai, Horgan, Hanlan, Freeman) and need to rotate a bit more to keep Gareth fresh.
Hopefully a win on Saturday will get us all feeling a bit more positive. With a fully fit team we have a chance at the play offs but the drop in quality defensively in the squad (behind Taf, Mawson and Forino is huge) so we need everyone back fit as soon as possible.
Surely if a ref is to give a penalty he has to be certain a foul was committed. If for example the ref is uncertain then presumably there should be no pen, no yellow and no stopping play.
Another eg might where there's been contact, a player goes down but in the refs opinion not enough to warrant a penalty. Again probably would be harsh to give a yellow.
This is just to give egs of situations where it isn't a simple choice between a pen or a yellow for a 'dive'.
Of course if the ref thought it was a dive then he should have played on and after they scored given Mehmeti a yellow.
Just watched the penalty claim again on the ITV highlights show, still can’t believe it wasn’t given.
You are right to draw attention to what is ultimately a grey area and therefore a subjective opinion. However, I think most of us would agree there was sufficient contact in this instance to cause Anis to fall. I watched the YouTube highlights with a (presumably) unbiased commentator who said it was a clear penalty to which Cambridge fans responded that it was a clear dive. It’s the first time I have seen anyone accuse Anis of diving and I think that tells a story.
I've just watched the highlights for the first team and can understand why the ref didn't give it. The only contact is right arm of defender to Anis shoulder. Anis had overrun the ball and the other defender was going to get their first (I didn't think this prevents a foul from being awarded). Sometimes they are given and sometimes not, you can argue it is harsh on the side that doesn't benefit from the decision.
Cambridge first goal, JJ is pushed over and there is no free kick. Vokes equaliser is nothing different but Vokes goal gets ruled out. Not very consistent. Having said that Wing did a bad job on marking Knibbs, he should have been goal side. Mawson a bit slow to come across and cover. I was surprised to see Stryjek so far off his line, something he seems to do a lot and has generally got away with. I suspect he would have saved that if he was two or three yards deeper.
Cambridge 2nd goal, perhaps Obita should have brought the player down in the middle of the park as the play was building to allow us to reset. Obita clearance was horrendous but I understand why JJ was hesitant. If he rushed out to Lankester, Lankester then had an easy ball to an unmarked Ironside in the box. You can see JJ tries to cover the pass first to force him to shoot and then doesn't have enough time to get the block in.
Their 3rd was really poor, I don't know who was meant to be marking thier player.
Spot on with all of that.
Thank you! Just thinking about that first goal a little more, we've made three (arguably four) defensive positional errors and been punished. If only one of those players (Wing, Mawson and Stryjek) had got themselves in a better place then Knibbs should not have scored.
The fourth is JJ. Should he have been goalside of Ironside? Probably not, because if he hadn't have been fouled he would have won the header. What is not clear is if we were planning to have one in front (JJ) and one behind Mawson, which is a very common approach at throw ins. You'll also notice Obita is in front of his man, Freeman is marking someone Mehmeti could have marked. Overall, we didn't give ourselves a good defensive platform with a number of players being too high up the pitch or not goal side. Something for GA and Dobbo to work on.
I'd be interested to see how League One breaks down in terms of zonal/man-to-man/hybrid marking - I'm not sure if we're in a minority with m2m or not. The defending for that third goal was * extremely Alan Hansen voice * diabolical
Not sure about extra legs @Maline. Fresher legs or different legs perhaps but, if you’re looking for more defensive (ball winning) legs, the cupboard is looking a little bare.
Jack Young looks like the nearest to the injured midfield trio in his style and approach and is clearly highly rated for the future but, for whatever reason, he wasn’t even on the bench on Tuesday.
The worst thing about the third goal was Danny Senda told us it was going to happen just before it did.
@floyd you’ve got a bit of a lookalike running the Antelope in Wycombe now, any relation?
It's reopened?
Not as far as i'm aware, but obviously the best hope for the Antelope is getting the best looking members of society working there!
Wheeler is more defensive isn't he?
Bit more height too, which you do love too.
I think this is clearly a transitional season either way - and that's not ruling out it being a triumphant one. A lot of ageing players, a lot of players with contracts winding down, and an ongoing struggle for a clear identity, with very uneven performances. Injuries are one of the major headlines, especially with how they have gutted our midfield, but we are not scoring enough goals and have struggled to put teams away even more than usual. No matter what happens, to me it has the feel of a tunnel to a very different 23/24 season.
Happily, I think there is a strong young-ish core we can build around, even if every older player moved on (and they won't all move, of course).
Unfortunately, had the Cambridge match been last season I couldn’t see us losing that. If we’d brought on Bayo with 15 minutes to go it would have created pandemonium. I don’t think we realise how much we miss him in these situations.
Anis has never taken a dive.... he doesn't need to, his skills are above the need to be a hylton
Get the sentiment, but how many times last year did we rescue a game being 2 goals down with 15mins to play? With or without Bayo.
@ReturnToSenda any idea?
With all due respect it is time to move on from that "excuse". We don't have Bayo anymore. There is no doubt that we miss his aura and persona, but the ship has sailed.
Without being too negative, and please don't take it this way, I'm just being realistic. Unless we achieve anything less than playoffs this season - next season is going to be a tough one to stomach. We are approaching a real transitional period. Two or three players (in particular) are more than likely with us on the premise that we go up this season.
Mawson, Taff and Vokes are almost certainties to leave (saying that, not sure Vokes will have that many takers unless he moves for the money and plays second fiddle for a Championship club, and we can only hope there won't be many willing to take a risk on the other two given their respective injury records).
McCleary, JJ - reaching the end of their careers.
Forino and Mehmeti likely to be poached. I'd like to think Forino will stay to develop further. There's no doubt Wycombe is a good place to do just that. Potentially Scowen and Wing too.
Thompson and Gape need to prove their fitness - the former unknown whether he will be at the same level after missing so much football. I feel so sorry for him.
Grimmer, Kaikai and Horgan likely to move on - not off their own backs'.
Obita not up to much this season.
Biggest two of them all - Ainsworth and Dobbo....
If we can hang in there til Christmas and strengthen in January, I'd like to think it will be so different. And it could be.......
I think you've pretty much got it covered there @thecatwwfc
Nothing more to add.