He’s not National League. He is championship quality. He is probably championship wage. We all know that. Which makes some of his performances more frustrating and today was one of those performances. Answers as to why? Not a clue. It’s not through lack of effort.
Today in the second half we lacked a lot of things. A sharp finish. A bit of composure. A bit of intelligence. A bit of leadership. A bit of calmness. We just became a mess. A horrid mess. Today was points dropped and with three tough games coming up it could look really ugly come the end of the month.
I found today very depressing, in spite of what I think was generally a very good first half. I don't think it is an overreaction to a single loss as much as some worrying longer term trends (no comebacks, coughing up leads, poorer second halves) and the fact that this season seems so utterly snakebitten. Even the "optimistic outlook" almost gets downgraded each time:
Summer 2021: We were unlucky to get relegated from the Championship, but we will get back there with this squad.
Summer 2022: We may have lost the playoff final, but we will be up there again this season.
Now: We may not be up there again this season, but we won't get relegated.
I still find it terribly disappointing that we had a single second tier season behind closed doors that should have been at least two or three (let's face it - we would have stayed up easily last season). I still find it terribly disappointing that we passed up an opportunity to send Bayo out a winner at Wembley and pass Derby on their way down. But now the consolation for going backwards is "at least we probably won't get relegated."
I think our current malaise is obviously composed of many different factors, so there is no need to rehash them all here. I don't think we will get relegated by any means, but we are heading for a third season in a row with a massive "if only" hanging over it - a third missed opportunity in a row to further transform and strengthen our club.
Just going through the match thread. How can anyone be Horgan's biggest fan? The most anonymous player I've ever seen in a Wycombe shirt. We've been playing with 10 men all season
I like Horgan. He takes up good positions, clever passer and often brings out the best in the likes of McCleary and Mehmeti. He hasn't really got going this season though and yesterday, although he never stopped trying and did find himself in good positions, his confidence looked rock bottom.
I think Horgan is a very good player, and is one of the best in the squad at picking a pass which gets someone in behind the defence. I’d be more than happy for him to play most weeks. He didn’t have a good game yesterday though.
It sounds like Horgan had a bit of a mare yesterday - I didn't watch the game - but how anyone can have watched him for more than two seasons now and think he's 'anonymous' is baffling.
My frustration with Horgan is that he can clearly see the pass in his head, but so often that doesn't translate to his feet. Far too frequently it's either underhit or overhit.
Speaking to someone after the game yesterday they asked when Wing would be available again after watching him for 90 odd minutes. People see or don’t see different things.
I actually think we played quite well for a lot of the game yesterday. It was quite clear after 60-65 mins that Vokes should have come off. Stryjek’s kicking was pretty poor. The pitch is in outstanding condition. Fair play to whoever is contributing to that.
Wing yesterday I thought was fairly effective. Probably in a role that involved him defending more than he would like. But he seemed to get on the ball a fair bit and went looking for it. I THINK Horgan was supposed to be playing in the number 10 role behind Vokes and was chasing shadows. When he did get a clear run through he failed to control it. It’s not a lack of quality. It’s a lack of the right position and the lack of confidence. With the players (not) available I would have preferred an energetic Pattenden in front of the defence, Wing in the 10 role and Horgan on the bench making an impact.
How many times have we said...it would be good if we could go away, snatch a goal from a set piece and shut up shop?
They were worthy of the win on the basis that they scored 1 and we scored 0. It wasn't daylight robbery. More of a "professional job". That's a tactic, is it not???
I've been watching Wycombe for more than 10 years. In that time he has been our most anonymous attacking player. Even Gozie Ugwu, Ryan Sellers, Rowan Liburd, and Dayle Southwell had more of an impact on games.
He has scored one league goal in more than two seasons, with just a handful of assists. He offers next to nothing and is a key reason for why we've been underperforming this season. I've been to Bolton, Exeter, Derby, and Sheffield Wednesday away so far, as well as Burton and Shrewsbury at home. In four of them he started and played for over an hour without doing anything whatsoever. In the other two he came off the bench and made absolutely no impact against tiring legs. Apart from the assist v Sheff Wed last season I can't remember him ever making a memorable play for us. Even in our best performances of recent months (Cambridge away, Plymouth home, MK home) I can't remember him making any impact or even looking dangerous, when the rest of the team was on fire.
What people see in him is completely beyond me. And this is from someone who typically loves midfielders who do tireless but often unnoticed/under-appreciated work, like Nick Freeman, Matt Bloomfield, Max Kretzchmar, Sam Wood, etc
This season from what I've seen, I might be inclined to agree, but certainly not last season. Yes we could do with him getting more goals,but he got a good few assists last season and was involved in moves for several more goals. He's brilliant at finding little pockets of space and feeding the ball to the likes of McCleary and Mehmeti where they can do damage.
For me, we tend to play better when he's in the team and that not a coincidence. On form, he keeps us ticking, can pick passes and switch play to both flanks. Even yesterday, he found space in great positions time and time again, sadly his passing let him down. I suspect if his passing had been to his usual standard we'd have got something from the game, as it was painful to see the amount of relatively simple passes to players in space he failed with. He wasn't helped by the crowd yesterday. I don't think there was anyone more frustrated than Horgan himself, but individuals in the crowd really got on his back and that was just making things worse. Getting him back on form would be an important step to our recovery as a team.
Comments
On a brighter note, Anthony Stewart scored for Aberdeen today!!
Can we just petition RC to sue David Stockdale for the first goal in the playoff final and pretend the start of the season never happened?
I broadly agree, but we will have to cope with him leaving eventually!
He’s not National League. He is championship quality. He is probably championship wage. We all know that. Which makes some of his performances more frustrating and today was one of those performances. Answers as to why? Not a clue. It’s not through lack of effort.
Today in the second half we lacked a lot of things. A sharp finish. A bit of composure. A bit of intelligence. A bit of leadership. A bit of calmness. We just became a mess. A horrid mess. Today was points dropped and with three tough games coming up it could look really ugly come the end of the month.
I found today very depressing, in spite of what I think was generally a very good first half. I don't think it is an overreaction to a single loss as much as some worrying longer term trends (no comebacks, coughing up leads, poorer second halves) and the fact that this season seems so utterly snakebitten. Even the "optimistic outlook" almost gets downgraded each time:
Summer 2021: We were unlucky to get relegated from the Championship, but we will get back there with this squad.
Summer 2022: We may have lost the playoff final, but we will be up there again this season.
Now: We may not be up there again this season, but we won't get relegated.
I still find it terribly disappointing that we had a single second tier season behind closed doors that should have been at least two or three (let's face it - we would have stayed up easily last season). I still find it terribly disappointing that we passed up an opportunity to send Bayo out a winner at Wembley and pass Derby on their way down. But now the consolation for going backwards is "at least we probably won't get relegated."
I think our current malaise is obviously composed of many different factors, so there is no need to rehash them all here. I don't think we will get relegated by any means, but we are heading for a third season in a row with a massive "if only" hanging over it - a third missed opportunity in a row to further transform and strengthen our club.
Just going through the match thread. How can anyone be Horgan's biggest fan? The most anonymous player I've ever seen in a Wycombe shirt. We've been playing with 10 men all season
Ever ? You've obviously not been watching for many years then.
We havnt been playing with 10 men all season as he's hardly been given a game, possibly part of the problem
I like Horgan. He takes up good positions, clever passer and often brings out the best in the likes of McCleary and Mehmeti. He hasn't really got going this season though and yesterday, although he never stopped trying and did find himself in good positions, his confidence looked rock bottom.
I think Horgan is a very good player, and is one of the best in the squad at picking a pass which gets someone in behind the defence. I’d be more than happy for him to play most weeks. He didn’t have a good game yesterday though.
It sounds like Horgan had a bit of a mare yesterday - I didn't watch the game - but how anyone can have watched him for more than two seasons now and think he's 'anonymous' is baffling.
How'd you work that out? He's played an average of 37 minutes per game.
As reported earlier on the appropriate ‘ex player’ thread😉
My frustration with Horgan is that he can clearly see the pass in his head, but so often that doesn't translate to his feet. Far too frequently it's either underhit or overhit.
I can see the pass in my head
Speaking to someone after the game yesterday they asked when Wing would be available again after watching him for 90 odd minutes. People see or don’t see different things.
Oh dear!!
So can I but my legs just don’t translate it 😂😂
I forgot that thread @perfidious_albion
I actually think we played quite well for a lot of the game yesterday. It was quite clear after 60-65 mins that Vokes should have come off. Stryjek’s kicking was pretty poor. The pitch is in outstanding condition. Fair play to whoever is contributing to that.
I hear this guy was spotted at AP in the early hours of Saturday morning
Careful.
I believe the majority of the gasroom believe anyone who doesn't recognise Horgan as anything but an incredible player doesn't understand football.
He's not in there for assists or goals apparently.
That's plain odd, as he was very easy to spot sitting very deep and spraying balls to McCleary for a lot of the game.
It is remarkable how people see things differently though, and how quick people are to try and demolish anyone who doesn't agree.
I do of course separate the couple of posters who couldn't see it with Vokes, which I have to say was plain bizarre.
It's the players - barely keeping the ball on it ☺️
Wing yesterday I thought was fairly effective. Probably in a role that involved him defending more than he would like. But he seemed to get on the ball a fair bit and went looking for it. I THINK Horgan was supposed to be playing in the number 10 role behind Vokes and was chasing shadows. When he did get a clear run through he failed to control it. It’s not a lack of quality. It’s a lack of the right position and the lack of confidence. With the players (not) available I would have preferred an energetic Pattenden in front of the defence, Wing in the 10 role and Horgan on the bench making an impact.
I have not been Wing's biggest fan so far this season but I voted for him, as he seemed to be involved everywhere. More of that please, Lewis!!!
How many times have we said...it would be good if we could go away, snatch a goal from a set piece and shut up shop?
They were worthy of the win on the basis that they scored 1 and we scored 0. It wasn't daylight robbery. More of a "professional job". That's a tactic, is it not???
Erm yes, but their manager is acting like he's put in this incredible plan that has taken months to create to beat us.
I've been watching Wycombe for more than 10 years. In that time he has been our most anonymous attacking player. Even Gozie Ugwu, Ryan Sellers, Rowan Liburd, and Dayle Southwell had more of an impact on games.
He has scored one league goal in more than two seasons, with just a handful of assists. He offers next to nothing and is a key reason for why we've been underperforming this season. I've been to Bolton, Exeter, Derby, and Sheffield Wednesday away so far, as well as Burton and Shrewsbury at home. In four of them he started and played for over an hour without doing anything whatsoever. In the other two he came off the bench and made absolutely no impact against tiring legs. Apart from the assist v Sheff Wed last season I can't remember him ever making a memorable play for us. Even in our best performances of recent months (Cambridge away, Plymouth home, MK home) I can't remember him making any impact or even looking dangerous, when the rest of the team was on fire.
What people see in him is completely beyond me. And this is from someone who typically loves midfielders who do tireless but often unnoticed/under-appreciated work, like Nick Freeman, Matt Bloomfield, Max Kretzchmar, Sam Wood, etc
Random thought. After seeing citeh bag two hat tricks today was JJ v Lincoln our last hat trick ?
This season from what I've seen, I might be inclined to agree, but certainly not last season. Yes we could do with him getting more goals,but he got a good few assists last season and was involved in moves for several more goals. He's brilliant at finding little pockets of space and feeding the ball to the likes of McCleary and Mehmeti where they can do damage.
For me, we tend to play better when he's in the team and that not a coincidence. On form, he keeps us ticking, can pick passes and switch play to both flanks. Even yesterday, he found space in great positions time and time again, sadly his passing let him down. I suspect if his passing had been to his usual standard we'd have got something from the game, as it was painful to see the amount of relatively simple passes to players in space he failed with. He wasn't helped by the crowd yesterday. I don't think there was anyone more frustrated than Horgan himself, but individuals in the crowd really got on his back and that was just making things worse. Getting him back on form would be an important step to our recovery as a team.