Many of us, I am sure sympathised and empathised with the plight of DCFC fans at the start of all of this, but given all that has been disclosed since then that has long since evaporated.
They really need to give their heads a good long wobble and look at themselves in the mirror.
@mooneyman I can well imagine that they will not wish it, is that desire sufficient to justify the information being withheld or should organs of government and their potential failures be open to the inspection of the electorate?
No it's not, but regrettably nothing will change until we get a new Government in place led by an honest and competant Prime Minister with morals, unlike the current incumbent.
Free agents signing, out of contract youth players re-signing, wages cap, limits on transfer/loan/agent fees, limit on length of contracts we can issue. All proper and correct IMO. As it should be.
I'm happy with the new owner's plans which appear to be to live within our means. He's not poor but doesn't have bottomless pockets either which is a good thing. One man gambled and lost and almost killed the club. It was an enjoyable ride up to the point where selling the ground for £80M saw us make a profit of £14M. Without the ground sale it would have been a £66M loss. At that point you know you're in trouble.
I'd love promotion this season but, realistically, midtable obscurity is what I'm expecting and will be more than satisfied with. I still have a club to support and I'm very grateful for that. Bury fans weren't allowed that luxury but they appear to be rising from the ashes. A good thing.
Who's next? Going on reports over the past 12 months it could be Reading. Could be Boro. Could be Bristol City or Birmingham City or any one of half a dozen or more other clubs. Having come close to losing my club, I don't wish that on any club or its fans. Not even those Bluenoses who gleefully chanted they were going to have a party whilst ripping up seats at Pride Park and throwing them into the South Stand leading to more than a dozen fans requiring medical treatment.
I hope all those clubs about to be "outed" as being in serious financial difficulties survive, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
PS - don't be fooled into thinking that the idiotic keyboard warriors are typical of the majority of fans. they're not.
You are always welcome here. Sensible comments and a recognition that sh1t seriously went astray and it was all in full sight of everyone.
I still can't get my head around the 32Red association and the Rooney part wage subsidy. How the football gods signed off on having a player financed by a gambling company is still beyond me. Especially when his wages seemed to be public knowledge. I think that most sensible Rams fans will one day look back at the Rooney era with less rose tinted spectacles than they are now. He and his mate were neck deep in your problems and as for wonderful gestures of generosity I have only ever read that he has deferred his wage, meaning he is football creditor, meaning he's getting paid. Unlike many others I suspect.
Good luck for the season ahead. I hope the keyboard warriors threatening to smash up Adams Park realise that they are coming to play Wycombe Wanderers a proud family club and not Millwall etc.
Hopefully, the majority of fans will turn on anybody doing any smashing up. Our new owner has had a North Stand (the family stand) ST for decades and was among the fans at almost every away game as well. He is more representative of the average Ram than the online eejits. If I can secure a ticket I will fly back for the game at Adams Park although securing one will be almost impossible as by then I'd need away membership and have 10 away games to my credit this coming season. As travelling home for a game costs north of 500 and flights are set to rocket in price, my football trips will be severely limited again.
They're meant to adhere to a strict financial plan imposed by the EFL. Yeah... They were also meant to adhere to the rules set by the EFL. Forgive me if I don't want to take my cynic's hat off just yet.
Sickening tbh, I'm sure they are within the agreed plan, that's to do with what funds they have now.
But the principle of begging to be released from obligations to local companies and HMRC because you've got no access to cash and would have to fold otherwise, and then minutes later pissing money on players of that level is bent.
Leicester were the first ones to be caught doing this I think and that's why the ffp / football creditors rules that WRDC evaded were brought in.
Any idea that the EFL have been harsh on them or that we risked their survival being proven as the BS they always were.
Small observation on us, I don't see Insolvency as a risk. Bristol City it is, FFP might be one but we still have until either next March or end of next May to make good the likely deficit via player sales or the other usual methods.
On a general note, keyboard warriors wise, a chunk on Dcfcfans, well very objectionable indeed. The arrogance and ignorance during the whole sorry saga is like something I haven't seen before.
Interesting, I think you'll probably get away with a fine or a small points deduction if you don't level up but look like you tried. You won't go bust unless your owner decides to stop funding you as with Derby.
Thanks. Forgot to add, 6 pts vs the Blue Few please. Forgot you guys had antipathy with Rovers too.
Solvency wise, for as long as Mr Lansdown is willing and able to fill the cash losses there isn't an issue on that front..
FFP/P&S wise I expect we have an anticipated deficit in the upcoming season of £4-5m. Maybe up a bit, down a bit- I have some concerns but we can with same player sales if required can fill a void. 20% sell on fee of profit from Brownhill if he is sold, or Kelly or Webster.
Loads are out of contract in summer 2023 so if we stay within to 2022/23 then we can rebuild. Lots of amortisation off the books and a number of these also among higher earners.
I think based on the past EFL cases there is a bit of a sliding scale. Birmingham got a point back for cooperation, but 3 more for escalating losses.
Based on my projections and the sliding scale in the Birmingham case, the max we could get would be 4 or 5 points, minus 1 for cooperation. They also tried to stick another 3 on Birmingham for not selling Adams in Jan 2019 but this was post a fail which we haven't yet so dunno if that comes into play yet.
Reports suggest that we cut our wage bill net by £6m in 2021/22 from 2020/21 and my workings see our amortisation down maybe £5m on the prior season.
2 out of three are on a single year deal. So they are rolling the dice based on parachute payments and hoping to bounce straight back. See Charlton, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Ipswich, etc etc
The new When Saturday Comes' season preview supplement finds the Derby correspondent essentially blaming the EFL, Wycombe and Middlesboro for their woes. Delusion and denial are obviously deeply embedded among their fanbase.
Sorry, started typing and I thought you meant how much they'd been let off by HMRC, @OakwoodExile seems to suggests it won't be disclosed earlier in the thread, wouldn't be a surprise if that was the case. Would imagine we'll only find out if the new owner wants to boast of how much money he's put in, possibly should the fans turn on him at some point, like if they don't quickly get back to the championship or spending money they haven't got.
Back to what you actually asked about any payment to us it's difficult to know how or if we've actually formally asked for anything. Pretty sure we haven't sued them. Think we put a note into the administrator's to lodge ourselves as a potential debt so the new owner will have to have been notified but he's probably ok to just ignore it unless we went in more formally. If any agreement was or is made at all that could be shown in either party's accounts but might also be bundled in with other items.
No worries @StrongestTeam. I was worried that your response might be along the lines of “Commercial in Confidence ? Don’t be ridiculous, that only applies in……..situation/circumstances.” !
Rooney will be portrayed with both hands raised waving two fingers towards Wycombe in the South East and two fingers towards Middlesbrough in the North West, to symbolise the brave defiance shown towards those who tried to bring down a fine family club.
Comments
Many of us, I am sure sympathised and empathised with the plight of DCFC fans at the start of all of this, but given all that has been disclosed since then that has long since evaporated.
They really need to give their heads a good long wobble and look at themselves in the mirror.
@mooneyman I can well imagine that they will not wish it, is that desire sufficient to justify the information being withheld or should organs of government and their potential failures be open to the inspection of the electorate?
This is a club who’s owner revelled in our relegation and how he got one over the EFL and now this muppet wants our sympathy.
No it's not, but regrettably nothing will change until we get a new Government in place led by an honest and competant Prime Minister with morals, unlike the current incumbent.
Free agents signing, out of contract youth players re-signing, wages cap, limits on transfer/loan/agent fees, limit on length of contracts we can issue. All proper and correct IMO. As it should be.
I'm happy with the new owner's plans which appear to be to live within our means. He's not poor but doesn't have bottomless pockets either which is a good thing. One man gambled and lost and almost killed the club. It was an enjoyable ride up to the point where selling the ground for £80M saw us make a profit of £14M. Without the ground sale it would have been a £66M loss. At that point you know you're in trouble.
I'd love promotion this season but, realistically, midtable obscurity is what I'm expecting and will be more than satisfied with. I still have a club to support and I'm very grateful for that. Bury fans weren't allowed that luxury but they appear to be rising from the ashes. A good thing.
Who's next? Going on reports over the past 12 months it could be Reading. Could be Boro. Could be Bristol City or Birmingham City or any one of half a dozen or more other clubs. Having come close to losing my club, I don't wish that on any club or its fans. Not even those Bluenoses who gleefully chanted they were going to have a party whilst ripping up seats at Pride Park and throwing them into the South Stand leading to more than a dozen fans requiring medical treatment.
I hope all those clubs about to be "outed" as being in serious financial difficulties survive, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
PS - don't be fooled into thinking that the idiotic keyboard warriors are typical of the majority of fans. they're not.
Did he? What an even bigger knob.
You are always welcome here. Sensible comments and a recognition that sh1t seriously went astray and it was all in full sight of everyone.
I still can't get my head around the 32Red association and the Rooney part wage subsidy. How the football gods signed off on having a player financed by a gambling company is still beyond me. Especially when his wages seemed to be public knowledge. I think that most sensible Rams fans will one day look back at the Rooney era with less rose tinted spectacles than they are now. He and his mate were neck deep in your problems and as for wonderful gestures of generosity I have only ever read that he has deferred his wage, meaning he is football creditor, meaning he's getting paid. Unlike many others I suspect.
Good luck for the season ahead. I hope the keyboard warriors threatening to smash up Adams Park realise that they are coming to play Wycombe Wanderers a proud family club and not Millwall etc.
Hopefully, the majority of fans will turn on anybody doing any smashing up. Our new owner has had a North Stand (the family stand) ST for decades and was among the fans at almost every away game as well. He is more representative of the average Ram than the online eejits. If I can secure a ticket I will fly back for the game at Adams Park although securing one will be almost impossible as by then I'd need away membership and have 10 away games to my credit this coming season. As travelling home for a game costs north of 500 and flights are set to rocket in price, my football trips will be severely limited again.
I’m sure you would be welcome in one of the home areas or Wycombe hospitality if you choose that route
Indeed, I’d happily get you a ticket if you wanted one.
Looks like Derby have learned their lesson and are taking a frugal approach to recruitment... https://twitter.com/JPercyTelegraph/status/1544587186837807104?t=vlYYgLgm3IeXAhT4erjJkA&s=19
They're meant to adhere to a strict financial plan imposed by the EFL. Yeah... They were also meant to adhere to the rules set by the EFL. Forgive me if I don't want to take my cynic's hat off just yet.
Definitely splashing the cash on wages for some of the players coming in but they are making good signings.
Sickening tbh, I'm sure they are within the agreed plan, that's to do with what funds they have now.
But the principle of begging to be released from obligations to local companies and HMRC because you've got no access to cash and would have to fold otherwise, and then minutes later pissing money on players of that level is bent.
Leicester were the first ones to be caught doing this I think and that's why the ffp / football creditors rules that WRDC evaded were brought in.
Any idea that the EFL have been harsh on them or that we risked their survival being proven as the BS they always were.
Small observation on us, I don't see Insolvency as a risk. Bristol City it is, FFP might be one but we still have until either next March or end of next May to make good the likely deficit via player sales or the other usual methods.
On a general note, keyboard warriors wise, a chunk on Dcfcfans, well very objectionable indeed. The arrogance and ignorance during the whole sorry saga is like something I haven't seen before.
Interesting, I think you'll probably get away with a fine or a small points deduction if you don't level up but look like you tried. You won't go bust unless your owner decides to stop funding you as with Derby.
Thanks. Forgot to add, 6 pts vs the Blue Few please. Forgot you guys had antipathy with Rovers too.
Solvency wise, for as long as Mr Lansdown is willing and able to fill the cash losses there isn't an issue on that front..
FFP/P&S wise I expect we have an anticipated deficit in the upcoming season of £4-5m. Maybe up a bit, down a bit- I have some concerns but we can with same player sales if required can fill a void. 20% sell on fee of profit from Brownhill if he is sold, or Kelly or Webster.
Loads are out of contract in summer 2023 so if we stay within to 2022/23 then we can rebuild. Lots of amortisation off the books and a number of these also among higher earners.
I think based on the past EFL cases there is a bit of a sliding scale. Birmingham got a point back for cooperation, but 3 more for escalating losses.
Based on my projections and the sliding scale in the Birmingham case, the max we could get would be 4 or 5 points, minus 1 for cooperation. They also tried to stick another 3 on Birmingham for not selling Adams in Jan 2019 but this was post a fail which we haven't yet so dunno if that comes into play yet.
Reports suggest that we cut our wage bill net by £6m in 2021/22 from 2020/21 and my workings see our amortisation down maybe £5m on the prior season.
Still more to do of course.
2 out of three are on a single year deal. So they are rolling the dice based on parachute payments and hoping to bounce straight back. See Charlton, Portsmouth, Sunderland, Ipswich, etc etc
Any news regarding a settlement payment from Derby yet?
I don't think we ever will know, it's the new way... whether we get anything or we dont
Arguably Commercial in Confidence? @StrongestTeam may be able to comment.
The new When Saturday Comes' season preview supplement finds the Derby correspondent essentially blaming the EFL, Wycombe and Middlesboro for their woes. Delusion and denial are obviously deeply embedded among their fanbase.
Extraordinary scenes.
Bit more temperate today. Prefer 80 to 100.
No mention in FourFourTwo preview :(
Sorry, started typing and I thought you meant how much they'd been let off by HMRC, @OakwoodExile seems to suggests it won't be disclosed earlier in the thread, wouldn't be a surprise if that was the case. Would imagine we'll only find out if the new owner wants to boast of how much money he's put in, possibly should the fans turn on him at some point, like if they don't quickly get back to the championship or spending money they haven't got.
Back to what you actually asked about any payment to us it's difficult to know how or if we've actually formally asked for anything. Pretty sure we haven't sued them. Think we put a note into the administrator's to lodge ourselves as a potential debt so the new owner will have to have been notified but he's probably ok to just ignore it unless we went in more formally. If any agreement was or is made at all that could be shown in either party's accounts but might also be bundled in with other items.
What a long way to write "no idea" , sorry @micra
It is likely the only way we will find out is when the relevant accounts are published for both WWFC &DCFC
Regarding the HMRC settlement that will be disclosed/deduceable from the administrators report once published
No worries @StrongestTeam. I was worried that your response might be along the lines of “Commercial in Confidence ? Don’t be ridiculous, that only applies in……..situation/circumstances.” !
But have they put the Rooney statue up yet? That's the most important thing.
Rooney will be portrayed with both hands raised waving two fingers towards Wycombe in the South East and two fingers towards Middlesbrough in the North West, to symbolise the brave defiance shown towards those who tried to bring down a fine family club.