Surely from what GA has said Chris Forino is viewed as the replacement for Stewart, having said that we absolutely need a back up in addition to Wakely
Wakely isn’t anywhere near the standard required. The last time he played, unless he was genuinely injured, he was not even close to the required standard.
We definitely need another centre back option, although o think Forino will be first choice with Taf.
Fairly sure we'll start with a 3, which could be Grimmer and JJ outside CBs with Taf central, but we definitely need another CB - slightly concerned about how casual Gaz seemed to be playing the situation in his interview the other day, but @Malone has promised us Mawson 👀
I really hope we don’t go back to a back 3 as the squad balance just doesn’t suit that formation now, let alone the fact we ditched it and this really upturned is from our slump last season. We are packed with attacking midfielders, playmakers and wingers and playing a 3 not only stifles that, but means we are playing 3 centre backs when we only have one specialist, a young lad learning his trade and 2 full backs deputising as centre backs. And JJ should only be a back up option now. Please a back 4!
Bishop, McCarthy, Forino, Tafazolli, Obita, Wing, Scowen, Mehmeti, Horgan, McCleary, Vokes. Subs: From Dickinson, Grimmer, JJ, AN Other CB, Thompson, Gape, Kaikai, Hanlan, Mellor, AAH, Wheeler, Freeman, Young
Let's see what Gaz and Dobbo have up their collective sleeve... But Grimmer and JJ have proven they can play as outside CBs - there'd be no deputising - my only real concern would be McCarthy, unless he's dramatically improved his crossing consistency over the off-season.
That's an exaggeration. But, in any case, that was one game, in which he had Kaikai - who is absolutely not a wing-back - alongside him, so he was effectively having to perform two roles at once. We're short at centre-back, but this idea that full-backs were 'filling in' is nonsense; you don't need to be an out-and-out CB to play as an outer CB in a back three.
I agree! They are full-backs, not centre backs and at their point in their careers, they need to stick to what they know, not try and learn something different that doesn't suit their skill-set
I'd probably rather see Forino on the right of a back three over Grimmer, but Grimmer is still perfectly capable. As for JJ... I must have been watching a different team.
I don't quite agree with you @ReturnToSenda. If a full-back was to try and play their natural game while being a Centre Back, they will always be caught in two minds. The questions of "Should I push on?" "Am I looking to be involved in this attack?" "Am I taking throw-ins?" etc etc which are easy answers for a full-back playing at full-back and the answers have been taught into these players from the time that their youth coach saw something in them and pushed them on.
A prime example on Full-backs playing at CB or CB playing as a Full-Back would be either Gary Neville or Jamie Carragher (in their prime years). Neville did a filling in job every now-and-then for United at CB but became very uncomfortable doing so, you could see him doing things naturally before realising he was out of position. Whereas Carragher was an out-and-out centre back, knew the role inside and out, however when he was played at Left-back or Right-back for Liverpool, he really struggled going past the half-way line in offering anything to their attack.
Based on little more than a feeling and an assessment of our squad as it stands, I can't see us starting the season play 3/5 at the back. JJ and Grimmer are ok as outside centre backs, nothing more (JJ more comfortable than Grimmer and able to ping useful diagonal balls). Forino excelled last season playing in a back 4. We have a wealth of attacking talent that would be stifled by playing with wing backs. It just wouldn't make much sense.
You're comparing totally different eras! Look at someone like Kyle Walker these days - equally adept at RB in a 4 or RCB in a 3. We should be well past the point of pigeonholing players into one position. JJ has evolved from LB into an excellent LCB - he can still play LB, but we've seen how badly he gets skinned these days (e.g. play-off semi 2nd leg).
I think it's an agree to disagree moment. I would worry if Grimmer or JJ were being asked to play a CB role in a back 3 or 5. But I'd happy to be proved wrong during the season.....
I've not seen first hand how we have set up in the friendlies. I would be enormously surprised if we haven't tried a number of different systems. Your reference to Kyle Walker is puzzling. The reason he is considered so useful as a third centre back is because he is so ridiculously quick and provides cover for the other two if either is caught out of position...
I can’t see any scenario where Grimmer starts the season. He was very poor last season - mostly because he was being played in an unfamiliar RCB role.
Regardless, it would be madness to suggest only signing a ‘backup’ option to Forino.
Both Tafa and Forino regularly pick up injuries. We want someone who is equally adept. Stewart needs to be replaced properly if we are to meet Rob’s hopes for this season.
I was just using him as a prominent example of how FBs absolutely can play CB in 3 - not all FBs, but no one would have thought of him as a CB a decade ago
Azpilicueta for Chelsea is another example of a full back playing equally well in a back 3. Good players can adapt. JJ has never really been the overlapping type full back (like Neville was) so don't think it is a huge stretch for him to play LCB, which he has more than shown in recent years. It never worries me seeing him line up there
We have lost one CD (Anthony Stewart) from last season’s squad. Sign a replacement (and Gaz has repeatedly indicated that he’s looking to do that) and we’re back where we started a year ago with the added bonus that the outstanding Forino is now more experienced. As others have said, we also have players like JJ and Grimmer who are more than capable of filling that position if needed.
JJ is just such a good 1v1 defender and his reading of the game is top-notch. I'm still trying to work out how he made that clearance v Sunderland and tackle v MK.
Comments
Surely from what GA has said Chris Forino is viewed as the replacement for Stewart, having said that we absolutely need a back up in addition to Wakely
Wakely is untested and has big question marks over his fitness and/or ability. We def need another centre back
Also he hasnt featured in any of our friendlies yet
I think he's been working his way back from something - he was in the pictures from one of the recent friendlies in tracking kit
Wakely isn’t anywhere near the standard required. The last time he played, unless he was genuinely injured, he was not even close to the required standard.
We definitely need another centre back option, although o think Forino will be first choice with Taf.
Fairly sure we'll start with a 3, which could be Grimmer and JJ outside CBs with Taf central, but we definitely need another CB - slightly concerned about how casual Gaz seemed to be playing the situation in his interview the other day, but @Malone has promised us Mawson 👀
I really hope we don’t go back to a back 3 as the squad balance just doesn’t suit that formation now, let alone the fact we ditched it and this really upturned is from our slump last season. We are packed with attacking midfielders, playmakers and wingers and playing a 3 not only stifles that, but means we are playing 3 centre backs when we only have one specialist, a young lad learning his trade and 2 full backs deputising as centre backs. And JJ should only be a back up option now. Please a back 4!
Bishop, McCarthy, Forino, Tafazolli, Obita, Wing, Scowen, Mehmeti, Horgan, McCleary, Vokes. Subs: From Dickinson, Grimmer, JJ, AN Other CB, Thompson, Gape, Kaikai, Hanlan, Mellor, AAH, Wheeler, Freeman, Young
Let's see what Gaz and Dobbo have up their collective sleeve... But Grimmer and JJ have proven they can play as outside CBs - there'd be no deputising - my only real concern would be McCarthy, unless he's dramatically improved his crossing consistency over the off-season.
If we are to play with 3 Centre Backs this season, it's going to leave us very short of cover if we have injuries or suspensions
Spot on.
Grimmer and JJ both struggled as CBs.
They really didn't
Grimmer had an absolute shocker at centre back at the Stadium of light at CB.
I think we are two centre backs light, especially with Taff's injury record.
That's an exaggeration. But, in any case, that was one game, in which he had Kaikai - who is absolutely not a wing-back - alongside him, so he was effectively having to perform two roles at once. We're short at centre-back, but this idea that full-backs were 'filling in' is nonsense; you don't need to be an out-and-out CB to play as an outer CB in a back three.
And lack of fitness and development from Wakely
I agree! They are full-backs, not centre backs and at their point in their careers, they need to stick to what they know, not try and learn something different that doesn't suit their skill-set
I'd probably rather see Forino on the right of a back three over Grimmer, but Grimmer is still perfectly capable. As for JJ... I must have been watching a different team.
I don't quite agree with you @ReturnToSenda. If a full-back was to try and play their natural game while being a Centre Back, they will always be caught in two minds. The questions of "Should I push on?" "Am I looking to be involved in this attack?" "Am I taking throw-ins?" etc etc which are easy answers for a full-back playing at full-back and the answers have been taught into these players from the time that their youth coach saw something in them and pushed them on.
A prime example on Full-backs playing at CB or CB playing as a Full-Back would be either Gary Neville or Jamie Carragher (in their prime years). Neville did a filling in job every now-and-then for United at CB but became very uncomfortable doing so, you could see him doing things naturally before realising he was out of position. Whereas Carragher was an out-and-out centre back, knew the role inside and out, however when he was played at Left-back or Right-back for Liverpool, he really struggled going past the half-way line in offering anything to their attack.
Based on little more than a feeling and an assessment of our squad as it stands, I can't see us starting the season play 3/5 at the back. JJ and Grimmer are ok as outside centre backs, nothing more (JJ more comfortable than Grimmer and able to ping useful diagonal balls). Forino excelled last season playing in a back 4. We have a wealth of attacking talent that would be stifled by playing with wing backs. It just wouldn't make much sense.
You're comparing totally different eras! Look at someone like Kyle Walker these days - equally adept at RB in a 4 or RCB in a 3. We should be well past the point of pigeonholing players into one position. JJ has evolved from LB into an excellent LCB - he can still play LB, but we've seen how badly he gets skinned these days (e.g. play-off semi 2nd leg).
Then why have played a back 3 in - I think - all of our friendlies so far? Unless Gaz is bluffing massively...
I think it's an agree to disagree moment. I would worry if Grimmer or JJ were being asked to play a CB role in a back 3 or 5. But I'd happy to be proved wrong during the season.....
I've not seen first hand how we have set up in the friendlies. I would be enormously surprised if we haven't tried a number of different systems. Your reference to Kyle Walker is puzzling. The reason he is considered so useful as a third centre back is because he is so ridiculously quick and provides cover for the other two if either is caught out of position...
I can’t see any scenario where Grimmer starts the season. He was very poor last season - mostly because he was being played in an unfamiliar RCB role.
Regardless, it would be madness to suggest only signing a ‘backup’ option to Forino.
Both Tafa and Forino regularly pick up injuries. We want someone who is equally adept. Stewart needs to be replaced properly if we are to meet Rob’s hopes for this season.
I thought JJ was more than competent at centre back. And as he matures that is a more realistic position than left back / left wing back.
I also think JJ would work as a CB. His heading and distribution is excellent and faltering pace not an issue.
I was just using him as a prominent example of how FBs absolutely can play CB in 3 - not all FBs, but no one would have thought of him as a CB a decade ago
Azpilicueta for Chelsea is another example of a full back playing equally well in a back 3. Good players can adapt. JJ has never really been the overlapping type full back (like Neville was) so don't think it is a huge stretch for him to play LCB, which he has more than shown in recent years. It never worries me seeing him line up there
We have lost one CD (Anthony Stewart) from last season’s squad. Sign a replacement (and Gaz has repeatedly indicated that he’s looking to do that) and we’re back where we started a year ago with the added bonus that the outstanding Forino is now more experienced. As others have said, we also have players like JJ and Grimmer who are more than capable of filling that position if needed.
JJ is just such a good 1v1 defender and his reading of the game is top-notch. I'm still trying to work out how he made that clearance v Sunderland and tackle v MK.