10-1. My thumb (the tenth) is just to get back at my mate @Malone for his recent description of one of my fine posts as bonkers! Admittedly, I did confuse cats and otters but honestly………
Horgan had 5 assists last season. That's 7th behind Vokes, JJ, Obita, McCleary, Hanlan, and Kaikai.
And two of those assists were on the opening day of the season against Accrington. Since then he has the same number of assists as Scowen, and fewer than McCarthy (who's crossing leaves much to be desired, let's be honest). Plus only the one goal, which the Morecambe keeper basically chucked in.
I agree that he's neat and tidy with the ball, but he consistently underwhelms. He's meant to be an attacking player!
6 assists. As I said, "right up there" (the Top 7 have either 6 or 7 assists). He only had one assist v Accrington, by the way. But it's good that you recognise his contribution to the first goal as well, even if he doesn't get a 'stat' for it.
I think it's all down to stats and getting a return from the player. Games are won by scoring goals and if we aren't doing that then it's going to be a difficult season. If he was a box-to-box midfield, I don't think anyone would be questioning his performances and work-rate however as his role is to attack the final third, he needs to be adding to the goal and assist tally
What it's actually all down to is does the team have a better chance of winning with Horgan in the side than out of it and I reckon for a lot of games we do.
I'm delighted he's staying, I think he's really important for us.
@eric_plant I never said that I didn't like Horgan or that I don't like him in the team. However, the modern game is becoming more and more stat based with the club doing individual analysis on player's performance week in week out.
In some clubs, are run a lot like this, looking into chances created, decisions made, movements on & off the ball etc. and if Horgan was somewhere like that, then he would have prob been shown the door. However GA isn't like that, has a much better man-management style and likes what he see's from him on the training ground, changing room and pitch.
However, his figures do need to start reflecting his playing time next season as he will be out of contract without an optional extended clause and will need to prove his worth either here or somewhere else (if thats what the club decide)
Until The Stats™ include everything, like number of times the player dragged a defender out of position with a clever dummy run, amount of space created for a team mate, number of times the opposition were wrong footed by a drop of the shoulder and so on, it's nonsense to judge a player on them.
I like Horgan and I'm glad he's staying - especially with the formation we currently operate.
However, I don't think he's been fit enough this season and I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this. He gets taken off in nearly every game midway through the second half, and whilst some of the time that's tactical / premeditated, it often looks like he's run out of steam by that point. I'm hoping a good pre-season means we see him finishing games as well as starting the,
I'm delighted that Horgan is staying, he's a really talented player at our level and does a lot of work with and without the ball moving opposition players and some intelligent passing too.
However, I'm also deeply frustrated by him because I think he could be truly exceptional. He should be getting more assists - but that's also down to the strikers making the right movement to get onto a slide rule pass into the box - and he needs to have more self confidence to take a few shots from outside the box himself.
For me the player we need to sign is the one who turns Horgan into "15 assists"by getting into those balls into the box. It could of course be Mehmeti. Wouldn't that be fun.
I'd also like to see one for how many times we're able to recycle the ball and keep possession in attack because he is always available to receive the ball and move it on whether it be down the left, right or through the middle.
For all the eye-catching play of Mehmeti and Horgan, if they've run up a blind alley Horgan is always there to help them out
I know I'll get downvoted again, but I don't understand most of these posts.
There's loads of players in League One and League Two who are tidy on the ball like Horgan is, but also contribute far more goals/assists than him. Horgan was signed with Championship pedigree and expectations, and is probably one of our highest earners. His time here has been a complete disappointment, and it can't be sugar-coated
If we can find a way to regularly start Horgan, McCleary and Mehmeti it can only be to our massive benefit.
Probably starting with those 3, with a strong centre mid combo behind them, rather than the mad spell with just 1 centre mid and trying to fit Hanlan in too.
Although I think Hanlan is a really exciting player so like to see him in there.
Comments
10-1. My thumb (the tenth) is just to get back at my mate @Malone for his recent description of one of my fine posts as bonkers! Admittedly, I did confuse cats and otters but honestly………
It's men against boys out there
13-1 now. You're the Peterborough of the Gasroom @Malone
Never leave a Wycombe thread early @Malone
Imagine the scenes of Horgan scores a couple next year.
Beanie II the sequel
Horgan had 5 assists last season. That's 7th behind Vokes, JJ, Obita, McCleary, Hanlan, and Kaikai.
And two of those assists were on the opening day of the season against Accrington. Since then he has the same number of assists as Scowen, and fewer than McCarthy (who's crossing leaves much to be desired, let's be honest). Plus only the one goal, which the Morecambe keeper basically chucked in.
I agree that he's neat and tidy with the ball, but he consistently underwhelms. He's meant to be an attacking player!
@WanderingDays
6 assists. As I said, "right up there" (the Top 7 have either 6 or 7 assists). He only had one assist v Accrington, by the way. But it's good that you recognise his contribution to the first goal as well, even if he doesn't get a 'stat' for it.
Nobody is defending his goalscoring record.
Why do people think he should be scoring more goals? He's never been that kind of player since he left Ireland.
I think it's all down to stats and getting a return from the player. Games are won by scoring goals and if we aren't doing that then it's going to be a difficult season. If he was a box-to-box midfield, I don't think anyone would be questioning his performances and work-rate however as his role is to attack the final third, he needs to be adding to the goal and assist tally
"it's all down to stats"......shudder
What it's actually all down to is does the team have a better chance of winning with Horgan in the side than out of it and I reckon for a lot of games we do.
I'm delighted he's staying, I think he's really important for us.
@eric_plant I never said that I didn't like Horgan or that I don't like him in the team. However, the modern game is becoming more and more stat based with the club doing individual analysis on player's performance week in week out.
In some clubs, are run a lot like this, looking into chances created, decisions made, movements on & off the ball etc. and if Horgan was somewhere like that, then he would have prob been shown the door. However GA isn't like that, has a much better man-management style and likes what he see's from him on the training ground, changing room and pitch.
However, his figures do need to start reflecting his playing time next season as he will be out of contract without an optional extended clause and will need to prove his worth either here or somewhere else (if thats what the club decide)
Analytics doesn't just go 'goals good', 'no goals bad'
Until The Stats™ include everything, like number of times the player dragged a defender out of position with a clever dummy run, amount of space created for a team mate, number of times the opposition were wrong footed by a drop of the shoulder and so on, it's nonsense to judge a player on them.
I like Horgan and I'm glad he's staying - especially with the formation we currently operate.
However, I don't think he's been fit enough this season and I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this. He gets taken off in nearly every game midway through the second half, and whilst some of the time that's tactical / premeditated, it often looks like he's run out of steam by that point. I'm hoping a good pre-season means we see him finishing games as well as starting the,
I've caused ire on here by suggesting he could do more.
But surely his frequent substitutions are less due to his fitness, but more due to the nature of his game. Doing a heck of a lot of work basically.
Plus attacking players will be the ones that are subbed more often than not.
I agree, the old age tactic of subbing off a tired attacking player for a few one with pace is always a defenders worst nightmare!
I'm delighted that Horgan is staying, he's a really talented player at our level and does a lot of work with and without the ball moving opposition players and some intelligent passing too.
However, I'm also deeply frustrated by him because I think he could be truly exceptional. He should be getting more assists - but that's also down to the strikers making the right movement to get onto a slide rule pass into the box - and he needs to have more self confidence to take a few shots from outside the box himself.
For me the player we need to sign is the one who turns Horgan into "15 assists"by getting into those balls into the box. It could of course be Mehmeti. Wouldn't that be fun.
I'd also like to see one for how many times we're able to recycle the ball and keep possession in attack because he is always available to receive the ball and move it on whether it be down the left, right or through the middle.
For all the eye-catching play of Mehmeti and Horgan, if they've run up a blind alley Horgan is always there to help them out
I meant Mehmeti and McCleary of course!
How many games did we win with him in the side?
Add to that... how many of the games we lost did he not play
I know I'll get downvoted again, but I don't understand most of these posts.
There's loads of players in League One and League Two who are tidy on the ball like Horgan is, but also contribute far more goals/assists than him. Horgan was signed with Championship pedigree and expectations, and is probably one of our highest earners. His time here has been a complete disappointment, and it can't be sugar-coated
That exciting anticipation when you click on the Gasroom for the first time since last night and see 17 posts unread on ‘retained or released’.
Only to discover they all relate to a pile in on Horgs yes or no?
Feel for @WanderingDays but at least he didn’t make the mistake of questioning Mustard’s contribution to the team!
Horgan was signed with Championship pedigree and expectations, and is probably one of our highest earners.
@WanderingDays
Good work using your personal view and assumptions as facts to beat a decent player over. None of those three points are facts.
If you are going to give Horgan stick at least do it on what actually happens
If we can find a way to regularly start Horgan, McCleary and Mehmeti it can only be to our massive benefit.
Probably starting with those 3, with a strong centre mid combo behind them, rather than the mad spell with just 1 centre mid and trying to fit Hanlan in too.
Although I think Hanlan is a really exciting player so like to see him in there.
Hogan's time here has only been a complete disappointment if you thought he was something he's not
I like to save ‘complete disappointment’ as a description for players who’s impact is equal to or worse than John Sutton’s.
The Horgs is an unselfish grafter with great positional sense and flashes of skill. If he had complete end product he’d not be at Wycombe.
Not sure anything will ever measure up to Stewart Castledine's 2nd spell at Wycombe
Craig Faulconbridge didn't exactly live up to his billing either
Horgan is a good player. Our player and will be in the side next season. That's good enough for me.