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Match day thread: Bristol City

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  • There is no rule to say we have to do what every other club does, and it's in no way helping us on the pitch.

    I love Wycombe and think we do most stuff brilliantly but for me it's the worst thing we do.

    Just tell us why players are out and a rough estimate of how long they will be out for. Instead of this we'll tell you what we want to tell you nonsense but by the way keep buying your ifollow passes and eye wateringly expensive beach towels and water bottles

  • I don't disagree with your points @glasshalffull, but like I said in my post earlier, it really isn't that difficult from those within the game to find out. Obviously, those players that are genuinely really close, that's a difficult one for the opposition to second guess.

    Let's take Anthony Stewart as a prime example, we were told by GA that he was "really close", very recently. Now for those fans that are hanging on every word, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that he will very possibly be in the squad for the last match at least. On the flip side, being the old cynic that I have become, I took it, that he will still be out for a while yet and had no chance. That's simply based on GAs' history of such responses. Sometimes, being honest with the fans, will make no difference to the opposition set up or style of play.

  • Van Dijk's cockney accent was hilarious tbf. Different times

  • Surely putting a timescale on returns from injury just builds people up to let them down.

  • @chairboyscentral said:
    Surely putting a timescale on returns from injury just builds people up to let them down.

    Only if you believe them. I can follow not setting players targets for return but the club has never been that honest with the fans on injuries. I'm reconciled to that but it would be nice if it was different.

  • @aloysius is right @glasshalffull . Ask Donald trump. Just because the people actually involved tell you something as a fact it is best to go with what you feel is the truth. I understand the covid vaccine is actually old Pepsi they needed to flog off and Bill Gates bought it all.

  • @chairboyscentral said:
    Surely putting a timescale on returns from injury just builds people up to let them down.

    No, because you can then give an update to say it's unfortunately taking a bit longer than we hoped or something.

    It would show some understanding of what it's like to be a fan and spend every day thinking about your team and how they will get on next Saturday or whenever.

    I suspect @glasshalffull might know a bit more than we average fans anyway. For instance he mentioned an injury Adeniran has been out with yesterday. This was the first I'd heard about it

  • edited December 2020

    Gareth had mentioned Dennis' injury and it was pretty obvious he was injured again when he dropped back out of the squad after Barnsley. I don't see the issue with how we handle things - is it that different to most clubs?

  • I gave up believing anything Ainsworth said concerning injuries after he said Ingram should be fit for the playoff final v Southend.
    When the truth he was on crutches and out for months.

  • With injuries I assume people are out until they are not. I dont need their diagnosis or assume dark reasons or that i am being lied to. I tend to wonder more why people who ARE on the bench (uche, freeman, mehmeti etc etc) dont get on earlier when things are not working.

  • I think I’d rather hear nothing at all about injuries. Would then assume the worst and, occasionally, get a pleasant surprise when the name of the injured party appears in the starting lineup. Having said that, I think we all tend to make educated guesses about the severity of an injury if we were watching when it was sustained.

    For example, Anthony Stewart returned to the pitch after receiving brief treatment, albeit only for a minute or two. Allowing for the fact that, before last season’s remarkable ever present record, he had had some lengthy spells on the treatment table, I guessed he might be out for at least a month. When Curtis Thompson turned his ankle, I guessed it might be 2-3 weeks. Dominic Gape’s two recent injuries were hard for us mere spectators to “assess”. The first one seemed to be a shoulder and, as Curtis Thompson knows, shoulder injuries are often difficult to treat and, as in his case, sometimes require surgery.

    As it turned out, Dom returned remarkably quickly. Possibly too quickly. As he strained every sinew in his efforts to get back to speed something ‘went’. Attention on the pitch seemed to be directed towards his left (?) thigh. Let’s hope the ‘rule’ of three doesn’t come into play.

    Dennis Adeniran looked under the weather for one or two games before eventually succumbing. We learnt yesterday that he’d had back trouble.

    Injuries sustained on the training ground have been disappointingly frequent at times (over several seasons) and we normally only know by default that they are the reason for a player being unavailable. I read/heard that Uche Ikpeazu initially had an ankle problem, followed by a bout of Covid and a hamstring injury. Little wonder then that he is being eased in very gently.

    I think I’d rather hear nothing at all about injuries.

  • edited December 2020

    The finances are an interesting conundrum, whilst nobody wants us to risk anything major we are probably getting to the point where we know our squad needs some boosting for the second half of the season not to be a complete wipe out with hammerrings, a loss of goodwill and ruining our better players. If our scouting is what we think it is investing at the £100k-£200k level for a player or three if available should also reap resale rewards like other clubs do. On the other hand we still don't know if fans will be back anytime soon and it looks decreasingly like we'll can offer people championship football for long.
    On Ainsworth - credit where it's due, he obviously deserves to continue even if he has a lousy season due to getting us here which is still amazing, and it's also easy to see we probably aren't up to the challenge and certainly don't have anywhere near the funds to have an even nearly "competitive" budget. So you could be a great manager doing all the right things but will you beat teams with better players each week? We were masters of doing it in L2 and L1 at one point but would you expect him to have us competitive in the Champions League or at the world cup?
    Tactics wise everyone needs a plan B , either within a game or against opponents that have different styles, or just because it's too predictable, Freeman is one of the only people in our squad who can put their foot on it and keep it for a while relieving pressure, whilst I believe Bayo's stats and ratings this season, if anything, are probably enhanced by the seeming odd quirk in commentary and stats to declare he's won a header if he gets his head to it, regardless of the position , wether a defender was challenging and regardless of what happens to the ball afterwards, we wouldn't necessarily credit a forward for winning a pass given straight to him.
    I don't really see how Uche can go from not being worth 5 mins at the end yesterday to starting Tuesday but who knows, and Taffazoli being on the bench again is a bit odd.

  • @micra said:
    I think I’d rather hear nothing at all about injuries. Would then assume the worst and, occasionally, get a pleasant surprise when the name of the injured party appears in the starting lineup. Having said that, I think we all tend to make educated guesses about the severity of an injury if we were watching when it was sustained.

    For example, Anthony Stewart returned to the pitch after receiving brief treatment, albeit only for a minute or two. Allowing for the fact that, before last season’s remarkable ever present record, he had had some lengthy spells on the treatment table, I guessed he might be out for at least a month. When Curtis Thompson turned his ankle, I guessed it might be 2-3 weeks. Dominic Gape’s two recent injuries were hard for us mere spectators to “assess”. The first one seemed to be a shoulder and, as Curtis Thompson knows, shoulder injuries are often difficult to treat and, as in his case, sometimes require surgery.

    As it turned out, Dom returned remarkably quickly. Possibly too quickly. As he strained every sinew in his efforts to get back to speed something ‘went’. Attention on the pitch seemed to be directed towards his left (?) thigh. Let’s hope the ‘rule’ of three doesn’t come into play.

    Dennis Adeniran looked under the weather for one or two games before eventually succumbing. We learnt yesterday that he’d had back trouble.

    Injuries sustained on the training ground have been disappointingly frequent at times (over several seasons) and we normally only know by default that they are the reason for a player being unavailable. I read/heard that Uche Ikpeazu initially had an ankle problem, followed by a bout of Covid and a hamstring injury. Little wonder then that he is being eased in very gently.

    I think I’d rather hear nothing at all about injuries.

    Did Uche have another hamstring injury in addition to the one before his ankle injury?

    And Gareth said Thompson signalled that he needed to come off yesterday - everything crossed there.

  • @StrongestTeam said:
    The finances are an interesting conundrum, whilst nobody wants us to risk anything major we are probably getting to the point where we know our squad needs some boosting for the second half of the season not to be a complete wipe out with hammerrings, a loss of goodwill and ruining our better players. If our scouting is what we think it is investing at the £100k-£200k level for a player or three if available should also reap resale rewards like other clubs do. On the other hand we still don't know if fans will be back anytime soon and it looks decreasingly like we'll can offer people championship football for long.
    On Ainsworth - credit where it's due, he obviously deserves to continue even if he has a lousy season due to getting us here which is still amazing, and it's also easy to see we probably aren't up to the challenge and certainly don't have anywhere near the funds to have an even nearly "competitive" budget. So you could be a great manager doing all the right things but will you beat teams with better players each week? We were masters of doing it in L2 and L1 at one point but would you expect him to have us competitive in the Champions League or at the world cup?
    Tactics wise everyone needs a plan B , either within a game or against opponents that have different styles, or just because it's too predictable, Freeman is one of the only people in our squad who can put their foot on it and keep it for a while relieving pressure, whilst I believe Bayo's stats and ratings this season, if anything, are probably enhanced by the seeming odd quirk in commentary and stats to declare he's won a header if he gets his head to it, regardless of the position , wether a defender was challenging and regardless of what happens to the ball afterwards, we wouldn't necessarily credit a forward for winning a pass given straight to him.
    I don't really see how Uche can go from not being worth 5 mins at the end yesterday to starting Tuesday but who knows, and Taffazoli being on the bench again is a bit odd.

    Surely Tafazolli will start on Tuesday. I'm not sure Uche would have changed much yesterday, but I will worry about Bayo if he starts again so soon after going the full 90.

  • @micra That's a really interesting perspective. I get where @glasshalffull is coming from in respect of Gaz's honesty. I think he's about as straightforward and impartial in his analysis as I've known a professional football manager be. Moreover, from the very start of his tenure, he's been tremendous at the "in it together" thing, and built a great relationship with fans as a result.

    But it's for exactly that reason that the injury doublespeak jars with me. @ChasHarps example above is a classic one, but its indicative of a more routine misdescription of timescales for recovery and leaves a sour taste.

  • I may have got the sequence wrong @chairboyscentral. Ironic that, having observed on iFollow what I thought was a turned ankle, I didn’t even realise that Thommo had been subbed, never mind at his request. Hope he had a train to catch!

  • @eric_plant said:
    There is no rule to say we have to do what every other club does, and it's in no way helping us on the pitch.

    I love Wycombe and think we do most stuff brilliantly but for me it's the worst thing we do.

    Just tell us why players are out and a rough estimate of how long they will be out for. Instead of this we'll tell you what we want to tell you nonsense but by the way keep buying your ifollow passes and eye wateringly expensive beach towels and water bottles

    How would being more upfront about injuries help us on the pitch?

  • It's been suggested a few pages back that Gareth might be dressing Freeman up for a transfer out. If true, then after impressive showings against Bournemouth and QPR, this would suggest to me that there is clearly no intention on seeking out a plan B other than the usual Plan A with Uche instead.

  • @chairboyscentral said:
    Surely putting a timescale on returns from injury just builds people up to let them down.

    Not if you are relatively honest, plus you can spring a pleasant surprise, with an earlier than expected return! Constant pork pies doesn't help & breeds conjecture, guesswork and resigns people to negativity.

  • @Brownie said:
    It's been suggested a few pages back that Gareth might be dressing Freeman up for a transfer out. If true, then after impressive showings against Bournemouth and QPR, this would suggest to me that there is clearly no intention on seeking out a plan B other than the usual Plan A with Uche instead.

    I don't think that suggestion is any more than putting two and two together and getting six.

  • @chairboyscentral said:

    @Brownie said:
    It's been suggested a few pages back that Gareth might be dressing Freeman up for a transfer out. If true, then after impressive showings against Bournemouth and QPR, this would suggest to me that there is clearly no intention on seeking out a plan B other than the usual Plan A with Uche instead.

    I don't think that suggestion is any more than putting two and two together and getting six.

    Let's hope so. It would be a dreadful decision.

  • @chairboyscentral said:

    @StrongestTeam said:
    The finances are an interesting conundrum, whilst nobody wants us to risk anything major we are probably getting to the point where we know our squad needs some boosting for the second half of the season not to be a complete wipe out with hammerrings, a loss of goodwill and ruining our better players. If our scouting is what we think it is investing at the £100k-£200k level for a player or three if available should also reap resale rewards like other clubs do. On the other hand we still don't know if fans will be back anytime soon and it looks decreasingly like we'll can offer people championship football for long.
    On Ainsworth - credit where it's due, he obviously deserves to continue even if he has a lousy season due to getting us here which is still amazing, and it's also easy to see we probably aren't up to the challenge and certainly don't have anywhere near the funds to have an even nearly "competitive" budget. So you could be a great manager doing all the right things but will you beat teams with better players each week? We were masters of doing it in L2 and L1 at one point but would you expect him to have us competitive in the Champions League or at the world cup?
    Tactics wise everyone needs a plan B , either within a game or against opponents that have different styles, or just because it's too predictable, Freeman is one of the only people in our squad who can put their foot on it and keep it for a while relieving pressure, whilst I believe Bayo's stats and ratings this season, if anything, are probably enhanced by the seeming odd quirk in commentary and stats to declare he's won a header if he gets his head to it, regardless of the position , wether a defender was challenging and regardless of what happens to the ball afterwards, we wouldn't necessarily credit a forward for winning a pass given straight to him.
    I don't really see how Uche can go from not being worth 5 mins at the end yesterday to starting Tuesday but who knows, and Taffazoli being on the bench again is a bit odd.

    Surely Tafazolli will start on Tuesday. I'm not sure Uche would have changed much yesterday, but I will worry about Bayo if he starts again so soon after going the full 90.

    Why is he any more likely to start on Tuesday than Saturday or any of the other games he's been on the bench for

  • @StrongestTeam said:

    @chairboyscentral said:

    @StrongestTeam said:
    The finances are an interesting conundrum, whilst nobody wants us to risk anything major we are probably getting to the point where we know our squad needs some boosting for the second half of the season not to be a complete wipe out with hammerrings, a loss of goodwill and ruining our better players. If our scouting is what we think it is investing at the £100k-£200k level for a player or three if available should also reap resale rewards like other clubs do. On the other hand we still don't know if fans will be back anytime soon and it looks decreasingly like we'll can offer people championship football for long.
    On Ainsworth - credit where it's due, he obviously deserves to continue even if he has a lousy season due to getting us here which is still amazing, and it's also easy to see we probably aren't up to the challenge and certainly don't have anywhere near the funds to have an even nearly "competitive" budget. So you could be a great manager doing all the right things but will you beat teams with better players each week? We were masters of doing it in L2 and L1 at one point but would you expect him to have us competitive in the Champions League or at the world cup?
    Tactics wise everyone needs a plan B , either within a game or against opponents that have different styles, or just because it's too predictable, Freeman is one of the only people in our squad who can put their foot on it and keep it for a while relieving pressure, whilst I believe Bayo's stats and ratings this season, if anything, are probably enhanced by the seeming odd quirk in commentary and stats to declare he's won a header if he gets his head to it, regardless of the position , wether a defender was challenging and regardless of what happens to the ball afterwards, we wouldn't necessarily credit a forward for winning a pass given straight to him.
    I don't really see how Uche can go from not being worth 5 mins at the end yesterday to starting Tuesday but who knows, and Taffazoli being on the bench again is a bit odd.

    Surely Tafazolli will start on Tuesday. I'm not sure Uche would have changed much yesterday, but I will worry about Bayo if he starts again so soon after going the full 90.

    Why is he any more likely to start on Tuesday than Saturday or any of the other games he's been on the bench for

    Because Charles can't do two games in four days unless in exceptional circumstances

  • @Wendoverman said:
    With injuries I assume people are out until they are not.

    I think that's the biggest problem for some not getting why Uche didn't get on yesterday and why just because people are on the bench they can't start.
    Uche' s recent injuries require careful management and a rushed 5 min sub appearance give more chance of injury than a managed 25 min one.

    Also after all this time out are we assuming Charles can't play two games in a few days? I thought he grew in to the game yesterday covering Knight's jaunts forward expertly.

    Finally on this jumbled thread I can't follow the narrative that Bayo looked shot at 65 mins. He was no less mobile in the 90th min than he was in the 1st. He quite simply had too many passes hit over his head or out of his field of movement. He'd have struggled as much at any time to make anything out of the rubbish he was served up.

  • @Brownie said:

    @chairboyscentral said:

    @Brownie said:
    It's been suggested a few pages back that Gareth might be dressing Freeman up for a transfer out. If true, then after impressive showings against Bournemouth and QPR, this would suggest to me that there is clearly no intention on seeking out a plan B other than the usual Plan A with Uche instead.

    I don't think that suggestion is any more than putting two and two together and getting six.

    Let's hope so. It would be a dreadful decision.

    Maybe a loan, but surely Pattison would be the first midfielder to depart. Freeman's got 18 months left on his contract anyway, won't be many League One clubs who'd part with the money for him.

  • @glasshalffull said:

    @eric_plant said:
    There is no rule to say we have to do what every other club does, and it's in no way helping us on the pitch.

    I love Wycombe and think we do most stuff brilliantly but for me it's the worst thing we do.

    Just tell us why players are out and a rough estimate of how long they will be out for. Instead of this we'll tell you what we want to tell you nonsense but by the way keep buying your ifollow passes and eye wateringly expensive beach towels and water bottles

    How would being more upfront about injuries help us on the pitch?

    It wouldn't. Who said it would?

  • Oh god, I didn't realise Thompson was out of contact next summer. That's another important piece of business to get sorted, like, now - he can talk to other clubs from January if he wants.

  • A few comments on all of the above from me.

    I still don't get the Freeman fascination. I thought he was OK against QPR in an unfamilar role, but far from our best player - Knight, to name but one, was much more influential. I've no idea if he was injured yesterday as the commentary team claimed, though, or sitting on a Grassy Knoll somewhere.

    Darius lost Martin for the first Robins goal and was just marking space as the ball floated over him. I love him, but it was really poor defending, leaving Fred and Joe in the lurch and giving away the goal. Given that performances are always judged through the prism of the result, I'd love to visit the Gasroom in a parallel universe where he'd done his job, the ball was cleared and we got a draw. I am sure the tone and volume of comments might be different.

    Which leads me to the the Bayo/style thing, which seem to have become conflated. We lost our first 7 games. Bayo was then fit enough to play and we pick up points relatively rapidly. It's easy to see why Gaz would conclude from that that Bayo is essential and that that is the style to play whenever we can. He was both effective and talismanic. Even when he wasn't winning headers, he was so evidently creating space for others - space that hadn't been there before. There wasn't an alternative player to enable that Bayo Ball style at that point. The difference by yesterday was that there was an alternative in Uche* who didn't get a look in - not even for the last 5 minutes. I'm not angry about that, as others are, but I am completely bemused as to why we are flogging Bayo for 99 minutes when there would apparently be benefit to both Bayo and Uche of getting the latter on for 20 minutes or half an hour.

    *albeit that from the sightings of Uche so far, they look different players not just in terms of their mobilty, but also in their inclination to nod the ball on versus take it on the chest, back-to-goal. But Uche will still provide that focal point of attack and allow us to go direct and play in the opposition half.

  • I don’t think anyone has suggested that giving fans information about injuries would help us on the pitch @glasshalffull. But there is such widespread and genuine frustration about obfuscation that I think it is in the interests of the club to keep us better informed and less frustrated. There is already considerable frustration resulting from the fact that we have players who are perfectly capable, when fit and “properly” assembled, of taking us to safety.

    I am reminded of the Forest fan’s comment about their squad being individually talented (the best collection oin the Championship I think he said) but the team not having gelled. There are similarities here. I just hope the incoming players in January together with a return to fitness of Gape and Stewart will result in the kind of performances we are capable of to escape relegation.

  • @eric_plant said:

    It wouldn't. Who said it would?

    You said that ‘it’ (I assume you were referring to the lack of information on injuries) is ‘in no way helping us on the pitch.’

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