Rob will also be around on Saturday, talking to Wycombe Sound at their stall in the car park and he will also be at the Trust gazebo stall to speak to fans.
Somebody asked about the cost of going to Wycombe Wanderers with three kids and implied that people were being priced out.
Rob mentioned his Economics degree and said that nobody could tell him if the price was reduced by so much, how much revenue would increase. As he doesn't do discounts, I think that he thinks that the price elasticity of demand isn't favourable, i.e. if he drops ticket prices, revenue won't increase much (if at all). For example, if he reduced ticket prices by 10%, would we get more revenue back by increased ticket sales? Probably not at their somewhat elevated levels.
Following on from this, I think that Rob said that £4,000,000 had been put into the club by himself, Missy and Pete over the last two seasons. To simplify things, I'll assume that this is for 46 games. According to this, we are losing almost £90,000 per game played! Thus, if we have 5,000 supporters per game, we're losing more than £17 per supporter. This, even with our ticket prices, basically equates to a place in the terrace! I don't think that increasing ticket prices by £17 would be the answer!
As a result, it appears to me that costs (Rob's fixed costs) are way out of control at WWFC. I'm sure that Rob came in and talked about being sustainable and he would show everyone how it should be done. It appears that he's well short of the mark here.
Anyway, the kids have fireworks to look forward to soon...
Thanks @Meursault that mirrors my thoughts - however, it is too trite & easy an answer to say "no one can tell me how much extra revenue I get if I drop the prices" without actually bothering to do the proper market research or doing a trial offer.
Equally his argument about the price of catering rings hollow as the fixed costs of the infrastructure have to be paid for even if you sell nothing; yes the standard hospitality formula is 1/3-1/3-1/3 materials-staff/fixed costs-profit but the whole point of the conference/corporate facilities was to provide an opportunity to meet a decent percentage of fixed costs on non-football days.
I appreciate he & his family have invested in the club, but he is expecting to see that paid back either from the ultimate sale of the club or from the tv revenues a decent run of seasons in the championship will provide.
In the meantime all of this detracts from Feliciana's failure to maintain/repair the ground in line with their lease obligations.
It's even more worrying that this £4m overspending is despite the income from the sale of Mehmeti and compensation for the loss of Gareth and his staff.
I thought he said £4.5 m had been put in over the last year.
Making a football club "sustainable" is frankly, impossible.
Everybody says it, no-one can do it.
It seems the penny has dropped.
Rob interestingly baulked at the description of our potential new owner as "Russian."
Given the geo-political, it'd be easier if Mr. Lomtadze was seen as Georgian or Kazakhstan - 5th largest country in the world?
With frequent references to Mr. Couhigs age, 18 hour trips, back to back meetings as well as copping flak (as any owner does) they clearly want out a.s.a.p subject to EFL clearance.
Regarding food and beverage, why is it impossible to serve drinkable good-quality coffee and tea at the ground? 30 Years...
It shouldn't be overlooked that although we are currently spending beyond our means, it seems we have increased player asset values and probably sell ons. Rob probably looks at these as his investments, but they are risky. Relegation or middling in league one is unlikely to do anything to increase their value, but on the upper side if we were to get promotion in the next few years several players automatically jump up in value.
Website write up says, "Missy, Pete and I have put in about £4.5million in the last year to make up shortfalls and to help us get to our goal of having a Championship calibre club."
Thanks everyone for correcting my mistake - my ears must've glazed over! Unfortunately, it makes the terrible sums much, much worse!
In my opinion, we're simply doing exactly the same as everyone else - spending huge sums of money in order to make that and more by getting to the halcyon league(s) above. Unfortunately, following the loan from Mr Lomtadze, it appears that the money has run out.
All a bit odd, when he came in we were losing around £450k per year and I think he thought/claimed that he could do better than that, and if not - cover it whilst having some fun. Propping up the club to the tune of £4.5m per year is a whole different level of funding that he doesn't appear to have, or to want to do. If a big investment one year helps us get to break even then great but we have seen little evidence either of major items being delivered, or upturned fortunes as a result of investments or general good safe management.
Having caved in to demands for more equity without firm guarantees of investment and additionally providing the only funds I am aware of that have actually improved infrastructure recently I think as trust members have a right to ask what is going on, whether any of the initiatives discussed are happening any time soon and what the plans are for sustainability and expansion. We all know he's borrowed from Lomtadze, is it a loan or an investment? Doesn't seem a difficult set of things to answer if so inclined.
I definitely heard the figure £4.5M, but had thought he'd said/meant in total rather than per year!
I also think that maybe RC must have a different understanding of sustainable. If he means "a level of investment per year that he can sustain" rather than "running at breakeven or profitably" then it could explain a few things.
The question about the loan wasn't answered. The question about the access road was 'yell at Neil' (peters) seemingly abdicating responsibility. These are two of the biggest q's at the moment. Sounded more trumpian than i've heard him before, i.e naive positivity and and not answering the questions.
Mr Couhig may have put in £4.5m into the club over the last year but I doubt much, if any, is his own money. I suspect it will almost entirely be a loan from Mr Lomtadze, which Rob has absolutely zero chance of repaying unless we get promoted - and we all know that's less than likely this season.
I suspect the club is now owned in all but name by Lomtadze - and the formal transfer will come as soon as he's passed a fit-and-proper-person test (which I suspect is not particularly onerous at EFL HQ).
Maybe that is how Rob will get his money back? In a way I feel sorry for the guy. If I had his money, I certainly wouldn’t be ploughing it into WWFC or any other football club.
I also think the new road and expansion of the stadium are real lame ducks, why on earth would we need these when our supporter base is so small. We have average gates under 5,000 and will another road out of Adams Park really mean a load more people will come and watch, I doubt it.
If I was Rob I would look to sell up ASAP as he is in a no win situation.
Personally I can't think of a good reason to be charging anything like what charge for kids' tickets. Make them cheap as chips, more people likely to bring their kids and spend more on concessions, loads of future fans created.
You'd have to ask why he bought it then. Keiran Maguire talks about combinations of vanity and insanity in this area.
I'm not sure wether to welcome a sale if that is what the intention is, it just raises a number of questions about Lomtadzes intentions. Not sure he's had any links with sport or made public declarations and shows in this way. What does he have to gain? Seems far more likely to just be lending money.
Having just been able to listen to RtBs, i thought Rob came across very well. I was particularly interested in his reflections on the differences between fan culture in the UK and US. Hopefully some of the overspend of things that aren't creating revenue or interest will come to an end.
It's obviously eye-poppingly expensive to run a club like ours, i'm not sure where Rob gets 4.5M from, but that's another matter. Easy to criticize from a distance, but i thought the 'Russian investment,' question (such as it was a question) was very poorly phrased. Much better to have asked Rob to explain Mr Lomtadze's investment in Feliciana EFL, and what that has to do, if anything, with the finances of the football club.
As for how to engage the next generation, welcome to the question that everyone in sport, entertainment, marketing and sales is asking. How do you get a generation bored by 15 second tiktoks to sit and watch for 90 minutes. No idea. Giving away tickets to under 12s, an idea i broadly support, might help mum and dad make the decision to bring them, but they're going to have to come home with a lot of merch to make a dent in our losses.
I do think it's worth being a little cynical about this £4.5m a season figure. Rob Couhig is no stranger to hyperbole, after all.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that he had "spent" £4.5m but he also received back c.£1.5m (or whatever, though that's similar to last year's Companies House statement) from gate receipts, bar takes, merchandise, sponsorship etc.
Still a significant chunk of change to have borrowed though...
Comments
No worries @Alexo, I know you weren't pointing the finger. We both heard the same rubbish from different places
Or blowing the money on a 'proven manager' sacked by someone else @Otter87 ?
I'm not sure @Wendoverman. I think RC still has faith in Matt but I think the phone calls between will increase in frequency
Obviously, I jest, I'm not as worried as some about the management myself.
Looks like Rob has sent Matt an email.
Bravo 👏
One of the most poignant answers went along the lines of “Wycombe has always been a family club - & now that family happens to be mine”.
Rob will also be around on Saturday, talking to Wycombe Sound at their stall in the car park and he will also be at the Trust gazebo stall to speak to fans.
I will let you know timings when I know them
Somebody asked about the cost of going to Wycombe Wanderers with three kids and implied that people were being priced out.
Rob mentioned his Economics degree and said that nobody could tell him if the price was reduced by so much, how much revenue would increase. As he doesn't do discounts, I think that he thinks that the price elasticity of demand isn't favourable, i.e. if he drops ticket prices, revenue won't increase much (if at all). For example, if he reduced ticket prices by 10%, would we get more revenue back by increased ticket sales? Probably not at their somewhat elevated levels.
Following on from this, I think that Rob said that £4,000,000 had been put into the club by himself, Missy and Pete over the last two seasons. To simplify things, I'll assume that this is for 46 games. According to this, we are losing almost £90,000 per game played! Thus, if we have 5,000 supporters per game, we're losing more than £17 per supporter. This, even with our ticket prices, basically equates to a place in the terrace! I don't think that increasing ticket prices by £17 would be the answer!
As a result, it appears to me that costs (Rob's fixed costs) are way out of control at WWFC. I'm sure that Rob came in and talked about being sustainable and he would show everyone how it should be done. It appears that he's well short of the mark here.
Anyway, the kids have fireworks to look forward to soon...
Thanks @Meursault that mirrors my thoughts - however, it is too trite & easy an answer to say "no one can tell me how much extra revenue I get if I drop the prices" without actually bothering to do the proper market research or doing a trial offer.
Equally his argument about the price of catering rings hollow as the fixed costs of the infrastructure have to be paid for even if you sell nothing; yes the standard hospitality formula is 1/3-1/3-1/3 materials-staff/fixed costs-profit but the whole point of the conference/corporate facilities was to provide an opportunity to meet a decent percentage of fixed costs on non-football days.
I appreciate he & his family have invested in the club, but he is expecting to see that paid back either from the ultimate sale of the club or from the tv revenues a decent run of seasons in the championship will provide.
In the meantime all of this detracts from Feliciana's failure to maintain/repair the ground in line with their lease obligations.
It's even more worrying that this £4m overspending is despite the income from the sale of Mehmeti and compensation for the loss of Gareth and his staff.
I thought he said £4.5 m had been put in over the last year.
Making a football club "sustainable" is frankly, impossible.
Everybody says it, no-one can do it.
It seems the penny has dropped.
Rob interestingly baulked at the description of our potential new owner as "Russian."
Given the geo-political, it'd be easier if Mr. Lomtadze was seen as Georgian or Kazakhstan - 5th largest country in the world?
With frequent references to Mr. Couhigs age, 18 hour trips, back to back meetings as well as copping flak (as any owner does) they clearly want out a.s.a.p subject to EFL clearance.
Regarding food and beverage, why is it impossible to serve drinkable good-quality coffee and tea at the ground? 30 Years...
It shouldn't be overlooked that although we are currently spending beyond our means, it seems we have increased player asset values and probably sell ons. Rob probably looks at these as his investments, but they are risky. Relegation or middling in league one is unlikely to do anything to increase their value, but on the upper side if we were to get promotion in the next few years several players automatically jump up in value.
Website write up says, "Missy, Pete and I have put in about £4.5million in the last year to make up shortfalls and to help us get to our goal of having a Championship calibre club."
But which players are actually worth significant money? Forino's is probably the only one and his contact expires at the end of the season.
4.5 million!
So we basically need Mehmeti or Al hamadi to go for utterly insane fees then...
Thanks everyone for correcting my mistake - my ears must've glazed over! Unfortunately, it makes the terrible sums much, much worse!
In my opinion, we're simply doing exactly the same as everyone else - spending huge sums of money in order to make that and more by getting to the halcyon league(s) above. Unfortunately, following the loan from Mr Lomtadze, it appears that the money has run out.
All a bit odd, when he came in we were losing around £450k per year and I think he thought/claimed that he could do better than that, and if not - cover it whilst having some fun. Propping up the club to the tune of £4.5m per year is a whole different level of funding that he doesn't appear to have, or to want to do. If a big investment one year helps us get to break even then great but we have seen little evidence either of major items being delivered, or upturned fortunes as a result of investments or general good safe management.
Having caved in to demands for more equity without firm guarantees of investment and additionally providing the only funds I am aware of that have actually improved infrastructure recently I think as trust members have a right to ask what is going on, whether any of the initiatives discussed are happening any time soon and what the plans are for sustainability and expansion. We all know he's borrowed from Lomtadze, is it a loan or an investment? Doesn't seem a difficult set of things to answer if so inclined.
I definitely heard the figure £4.5M, but had thought he'd said/meant in total rather than per year!
I also think that maybe RC must have a different understanding of sustainable. If he means "a level of investment per year that he can sustain" rather than "running at breakeven or profitably" then it could explain a few things.
investment a.k.a. debt
Pete persuades Rob over a convivial Thanks Giving lunch that owning a soccer club would be fun.
Fast forward to a bloke in his mid seventies, alone in a hotel room, thousands of miles from home hemhoraging money.
Would make an illuminating documentary on Discovery+.
The question about the loan wasn't answered. The question about the access road was 'yell at Neil' (peters) seemingly abdicating responsibility. These are two of the biggest q's at the moment. Sounded more trumpian than i've heard him before, i.e naive positivity and and not answering the questions.
Mr Couhig may have put in £4.5m into the club over the last year but I doubt much, if any, is his own money. I suspect it will almost entirely be a loan from Mr Lomtadze, which Rob has absolutely zero chance of repaying unless we get promoted - and we all know that's less than likely this season.
I suspect the club is now owned in all but name by Lomtadze - and the formal transfer will come as soon as he's passed a fit-and-proper-person test (which I suspect is not particularly onerous at EFL HQ).
Maybe that is how Rob will get his money back? In a way I feel sorry for the guy. If I had his money, I certainly wouldn’t be ploughing it into WWFC or any other football club.
I also think the new road and expansion of the stadium are real lame ducks, why on earth would we need these when our supporter base is so small. We have average gates under 5,000 and will another road out of Adams Park really mean a load more people will come and watch, I doubt it.
If I was Rob I would look to sell up ASAP as he is in a no win situation.
Interesting change of terminology from Rob.
Previously - ‘we will be a Championship club’
Now - ‘Championship-calibre club’
Personally I can't think of a good reason to be charging anything like what charge for kids' tickets. Make them cheap as chips, more people likely to bring their kids and spend more on concessions, loads of future fans created.
You'd have to ask why he bought it then. Keiran Maguire talks about combinations of vanity and insanity in this area.
I'm not sure wether to welcome a sale if that is what the intention is, it just raises a number of questions about Lomtadzes intentions. Not sure he's had any links with sport or made public declarations and shows in this way. What does he have to gain? Seems far more likely to just be lending money.
Having just been able to listen to RtBs, i thought Rob came across very well. I was particularly interested in his reflections on the differences between fan culture in the UK and US. Hopefully some of the overspend of things that aren't creating revenue or interest will come to an end.
It's obviously eye-poppingly expensive to run a club like ours, i'm not sure where Rob gets 4.5M from, but that's another matter. Easy to criticize from a distance, but i thought the 'Russian investment,' question (such as it was a question) was very poorly phrased. Much better to have asked Rob to explain Mr Lomtadze's investment in Feliciana EFL, and what that has to do, if anything, with the finances of the football club.
As for how to engage the next generation, welcome to the question that everyone in sport, entertainment, marketing and sales is asking. How do you get a generation bored by 15 second tiktoks to sit and watch for 90 minutes. No idea. Giving away tickets to under 12s, an idea i broadly support, might help mum and dad make the decision to bring them, but they're going to have to come home with a lot of merch to make a dent in our losses.
I do think it's worth being a little cynical about this £4.5m a season figure. Rob Couhig is no stranger to hyperbole, after all.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that he had "spent" £4.5m but he also received back c.£1.5m (or whatever, though that's similar to last year's Companies House statement) from gate receipts, bar takes, merchandise, sponsorship etc.
Still a significant chunk of change to have borrowed though...
Also, did he clearly say pounds? Could he have meant dollars? Mind you, that is still 3.5m-3.6m pounds or so.
If he said Vietnamese Dong that's barely £147.00, so that might be ok, Otherwise we are fcuked