Good luck to the lad. Is this another case of needing to keep below a specified number of appearances to avoid triggering some kind of bonus/income boost, I wonder?
I thought this was already settled, and that the gasroom had decried that just because he's an attacking mid who has represented his country, that doesn't mean he was brought in to score or assist.
I remember being linked with Sam Cosgrove before he chose Shrewsbury over us. Didn't think much of him at Shrewsbury but Plymouth seem to be getting the best out of him.
Yeah he was terrible. Scored very few goals. Looked a handful against us when we played Plymouth and has scored a fair few including a hattrick the other night.
On the subject of Wimbledon. I liked the look of Ayoub Assal. Surprised he's not been snapped up.
He's a nice player to watch when we often don't play nicely, he is undoubtedly more talented than some who have played ahead of him but wether he's out of position, out of form or too slow he hasn't scored or assisted anywhere as much as you might hope and on a bad day looks on a different wavelength and struggles to find a teammate with a pass. None of this will improve with 2 minute sub appearances here and there so probably right to let him go if people are in for him. Will fit in better somewhere else but not sure his previous suggests he does turn into an assist machine or prolific goalscorer at a decent level. If he does we've messed up but you have to move on.
No offence to the Irish league, but surely he's too good for that. I think in the right team he's still a championship player, and definitely league one. Maybe if and when he does go he could also easily go back to Scottish football, good enough for a Premier team up there bar Celtic and Rangers.
You would have to be a good scout to look beyond his stats during his two and half seasons with us and think there is something worth investing there. He is one of the highest paid players we have ever had and I was shocked when we signed him for another season in the summer in the current financial context a terrible decision. We never play a formation or system where he could fit, GA surely could have been honest in the summer and know that. I feel for the guy. And I feel for our growing debt.
A quality player who's been let down by our agricultural approach - which begs the question why did we sign him in the first place? He needs to go for his own sanity.
Would that be the approach that got us to the playoffs final last season and to within a couple of points of a playoff place at this stage of the current season? He signed a contract extension in the summer knowing exactly how we play, but why let the facts get in the way of another chance to criticise the club?
Yes, an approach which doesn't suit Horgan. What's your point? Maybe he shouldn't have signed the extension; I just hate to see such a talented player wasted.
Do players like McCleary, Mehmeti, Freeman, Mawson, JJ etc fit your description of not suiting our ‘agricultural’ approach? I think most people would agree that they are all technically gifted players.
I think agricultural is a little unfair. It is an effective style that plays to our ideology and our strengths. And largely works. So in a squad that the above technically gifted players thrive why hasn't Horgan? And he hasn't. So why we triggered a contract extension (and I always read extension as same terms) was a mystery to me. We find ways to get those guys to deliver and they do.
It's a bit reductive to lump all of those players into one 'technically gifted' bracket - they're all different. We have seen the best of Horgan in spells, but we rarely stick with a system which suits his strengths - so he has been wasted on the whole.
Horgan is a weird one. I can see how he creates space, etc., and we have had some amazing spells with him in the side where we look balanced and dangerous. But as many say, there is no sustained end product.
Put it this way - if you were asked for your most iconic memory of each player, what would it be for Horgs? Not much to choose from.
To throw another wrinkle in, Horgs has only had 5 starts this season, but averaged 6.40 MOTM votes in those starts, ahead of such notables as Gape (5.77), Grimmer (5.60), Wing (5.26), McCleary (2.22), Vokes (2.00), McCarthy (2.00), Tafazolli (0.80), Jacobson (0.64) and Obita (0.35). Obviously not apples to apples as far as position, but that's quite a list of players who have had more opportunities with lesser returns.
Comments
You know he's going somewhere and is going to score a dozen goals and get 20 assists in the second half of the season don't you?
Good luck to the lad. Is this another case of needing to keep below a specified number of appearances to avoid triggering some kind of bonus/income boost, I wonder?
Christie Ward is the one to watch. A five min cameo in the Micky Mouse cup (where he almost scored) was no chance debut. Big plans for the lad.
The development players are typically 1 year deals.
When we dish out a 3 year deal, without exception it's been for players who have made a huge impact for us, or are seen as star players to come.
No-one we've signed on a 3 year deal has struggled to even get on from the bench with any sort of regularity.
I lose track of how long Young has been injured, but even with massive injury problems in that area of the pitch he's barely had any sort of look in.
So it was an unusual deal.
I thought this was already settled, and that the gasroom had decried that just because he's an attacking mid who has represented his country, that doesn't mean he was brought in to score or assist.
I remember being linked with Sam Cosgrove before he chose Shrewsbury over us. Didn't think much of him at Shrewsbury but Plymouth seem to be getting the best out of him.
So funny how football goes sometimes.
I completely agree!
Didn't realise he ended up at Wimbledon last season too - and didn't do much there either
Yeah he was terrible. Scored very few goals. Looked a handful against us when we played Plymouth and has scored a fair few including a hattrick the other night.
On the subject of Wimbledon. I liked the look of Ayoub Assal. Surprised he's not been snapped up.
Assal gave all sorts of issues to Chris Forino in that away game. Very few run Chris ragged like that. Assal is one I’m watching keenly.
He's a nice player to watch when we often don't play nicely, he is undoubtedly more talented than some who have played ahead of him but wether he's out of position, out of form or too slow he hasn't scored or assisted anywhere as much as you might hope and on a bad day looks on a different wavelength and struggles to find a teammate with a pass. None of this will improve with 2 minute sub appearances here and there so probably right to let him go if people are in for him. Will fit in better somewhere else but not sure his previous suggests he does turn into an assist machine or prolific goalscorer at a decent level. If he does we've messed up but you have to move on.
No offence to the Irish league, but surely he's too good for that. I think in the right team he's still a championship player, and definitely league one. Maybe if and when he does go he could also easily go back to Scottish football, good enough for a Premier team up there bar Celtic and Rangers.
You would have to be a good scout to look beyond his stats during his two and half seasons with us and think there is something worth investing there. He is one of the highest paid players we have ever had and I was shocked when we signed him for another season in the summer in the current financial context a terrible decision. We never play a formation or system where he could fit, GA surely could have been honest in the summer and know that. I feel for the guy. And I feel for our growing debt.
You’d have to hope he was willing to accept a pay cut. An utterly bonkers decision to extend his contract if not.
A quality player who's been let down by our agricultural approach - which begs the question why did we sign him in the first place? He needs to go for his own sanity.
Would that be the approach that got us to the playoffs final last season and to within a couple of points of a playoff place at this stage of the current season? He signed a contract extension in the summer knowing exactly how we play, but why let the facts get in the way of another chance to criticise the club?
Yes, an approach which doesn't suit Horgan. What's your point? Maybe he shouldn't have signed the extension; I just hate to see such a talented player wasted.
Do players like McCleary, Mehmeti, Freeman, Mawson, JJ etc fit your description of not suiting our ‘agricultural’ approach? I think most people would agree that they are all technically gifted players.
I think agricultural is a little unfair. It is an effective style that plays to our ideology and our strengths. And largely works. So in a squad that the above technically gifted players thrive why hasn't Horgan? And he hasn't. So why we triggered a contract extension (and I always read extension as same terms) was a mystery to me. We find ways to get those guys to deliver and they do.
It's a bit reductive to lump all of those players into one 'technically gifted' bracket - they're all different. We have seen the best of Horgan in spells, but we rarely stick with a system which suits his strengths - so he has been wasted on the whole.
Or others have simply adapted better.
Either way, if we aren't going to pick him...
I’ve said it before, “What does Daryl Horgan have to do to get picked by Gaz?”
I reckon he must have scratched Gaz’s car in the car park…or worse.
Who would you leave out of our current starting eleven?
Your post is like he's done great things and it's unbelievable that isn't enough to keep him in.
Horgan is a weird one. I can see how he creates space, etc., and we have had some amazing spells with him in the side where we look balanced and dangerous. But as many say, there is no sustained end product.
Put it this way - if you were asked for your most iconic memory of each player, what would it be for Horgs? Not much to choose from.
The enduring Gasroom debates about him
To throw another wrinkle in, Horgs has only had 5 starts this season, but averaged 6.40 MOTM votes in those starts, ahead of such notables as Gape (5.77), Grimmer (5.60), Wing (5.26), McCleary (2.22), Vokes (2.00), McCarthy (2.00), Tafazolli (0.80), Jacobson (0.64) and Obita (0.35). Obviously not apples to apples as far as position, but that's quite a list of players who have had more opportunities with lesser returns.
These MOM polls are interesting, but some people will vote for a certain player however the game has gone.
1 person voted Freeman man of the match v Ipswich for example.
He came on at 71mins, by which time the game had heavily evolved into an all out shutout, where we barely touched the ball!
That's faintly ridiculous.
That offside a couple of years ago?
Missing that tap in 2mins into the first game of the Championship is a bad and probably harsh memory too.