@ReturnToSenda said:
In fairness, I can see that happening quite a lot more at the top level in the coming years as the skillsets increasingly overlap, but I wouldn't be touching Stewart!
Indeed...as we moan constantly about by-passing the midfield, surely who plays there is immaterial. Wheeler, Pendlebury, McCarthy, Bloomfield? As long as they can put in a shift in an injury raddled side I would be happy with any of them, but that means we need Tools to stay where he is!
As for Plymouth, hopefully they can regroup and beat Wigan.
@ReturnToSenda said:
Nah, we were definitely up to our usual tricks - little things like Stocko getting down on all fours and crawling to the ball, which is totally legitimate and makes it all the more hilarious when the oppo fans blow their tops.
This is absolutely fine in my book. If you know the keeper isn't in a hurry to collect the ball when its in play, close him down.
@Commoner said:
What last night showed, is that we are at our absolute best when we mix up long balls and short intricate passing to keep the opposition guessing.
Wheeler and Mehmeti have been the key to that change in the last two matches. Long may it continue.
It will be interesting to see what happens on Saturday if Gape, Thompson and Scowen are all still injured.
Will McCarthy or Grimmer move into central midfield? Will Bloomfield return or will he show faith in Wheeler & Pendlebury.
I quite fancy Stewart in there, in front of the back three but given our lack of options at the back at the minute I'd keep him where he is.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us play 4-5-1 for first 60 and sit back with two banks of defenders.
Sticking our best defender in midfield cannot be a serious suggestion
Our best defender who wasn't in your starting XI on the eve of the season...
I quite fancy Stewart in there, in front of the back three but given our lack of options at the back at the minute I'd keep him where he is.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us play 4-5-1 for first 60 and sit back with two banks of defenders.
Sticking our best defender in midfield cannot be a serious suggestion
Deadly serious as a one off, which is basically what I said in the first post.
If Thompson, Gape and Scowen are all injured for Saturday I would quite happily play Stewart there if we had a decent back up option at center back.
I'd certainly prefer Stewart there over McCarthy or Grimmer. I'm not sure Wheeler/Pendlebury should be our starting midfield two against Wednesday. Appreciate that on balance, Stewart is more likely to play center back but I would be equally happy with him playing CDM this Saturday.
I remember a Stewart interview from a long time ago where he said he started off as a center midfielder but as his development progressed he moved to center back as he didn't have the energy to be a box to box midfielder.
Perhaps Bloomfield might start. Who knows!
Now I'm trying to think of CBs who've successfully transitioned to DM in their prime?
Gareth Southgate?
Andy Harman played in both positions for Wycombe, not over successful in either. Preffered him in midfield, as his heading could be quite calamitous in our box.
@Commoner said:
What last night showed, is that we are at our absolute best when we mix up long balls and short intricate passing to keep the opposition guessing.
Wheeler and Mehmeti have been the key to that change in the last two matches. Long may it continue.
It will be interesting to see what happens on Saturday if Gape, Thompson and Scowen are all still injured.
Will McCarthy or Grimmer move into central midfield? Will Bloomfield return or will he show faith in Wheeler & Pendlebury.
I quite fancy Stewart in there, in front of the back three but given our lack of options at the back at the minute I'd keep him where he is.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us play 4-5-1 for first 60 and sit back with two banks of defenders.
Sticking our best defender in midfield cannot be a serious suggestion
Our best defender who wasn't in your starting XI on the eve of the season...
You've got a better memory than me! But no, at the time he wasn't.
@ReturnToSenda said:
Nah, we were definitely up to our usual tricks - little things like Stocko getting down on all fours and crawling to the ball, which is totally legitimate and makes it all the more hilarious when the oppo fans blow their tops.
There was a great moment where Stocko was casually strolling forward to collect the ball when we'd won a free kick and several Plymouth players were frothing at the mouth about it, despite one of them standing quite close to the ball and not collecting it himself.
The galling thing is I've seen many Rotherham fans on Twitter joining in and agreeing with the Janners. Rotherham spent the majority of the first half in our last game rolling about and wasting a lot of time!
There was a throw in we took a while over pretty early, it may have been on purpose but looked like the taker just wasn't seeing good options and was shouting at people to move. Got a rollicking from the Plymouth lot obviously but was kind of funny because Kanara was in exactly the same situation barely 5 mins later and was reminded by our fans.
It has been a while hasn't it. Where have you been? Anywhere nice?
So we resume the pseudo rivalry that some of the internet warriors on both sides don't seem to be able to let go......and in truth there is something on both sides....Adams sticks in your craw and we have a thing about the dark arts practiced ( and reading other forums not just against us ) or allegedly practiced by your good selves.
I'll confess to stirring that pot a few seasons back when writing the One Game at a Time thread where I previewed the weeks games and christened you Why-come? which seems to have stuck with a few of the Green army...oops!
I also was responsible for the April fool post about a new sponsorship deal with Timex, a name change to Sporting Wycombe and a legal challenge by Derek Adams over your stadium name when you got bought out....
Anyway, time rolls on and too be honest the most annoying thing about WW if truth be told is how long to takes to drive away after the matches at Adams Park....that and the fact that we don't seem to be able to beat you at home....and if JJ scores his dad will text me....
We have moved on anyway...we are now much more focused on the giant baiting of the Wendies after we won our "cup final" (their words) 3-0 and then proceeded to eliminate them from the FA Cup as well....
Personally I hope you leave Jacobsen on the bench again as he always sets up goals against us, and Akinfenwa invariably causes chaos when he plays although we are a different defensive beast to last seasons pushovers.
But I think you correspondents are right, and that a few well placed snipers bullets and some judicious time wasting in the first half will send a few of the watching locals apoplectic...even though we do it ourselves.
Hopefully we will bounce back after the shock defeat at Charlton ( albeit the shock is that it has taken this long to happen) and we are a decent side who score a lot, so the next two games against you and Wigan followed by Slumberland away could make or break this completely unexpected charge to the top....
We would all have taken the play offs in August, and I think Rotherham are the team to catch this season with perm any one from five or six for second....including us, and you but seemingly not Yipswich...which should give you some measure of relief.
Three Little Birds in May anyone?
Good luck from Wednesday onwards......and best wishes to your recovering Railway Steve...I did the whole stent thing about four years ago and its a slow old recovery process...but it's a lot better than the alternative!!
I'll pop by either way with some observations tomorrow
COYG!
Did he pop by with his observations? Must have missed it.
Had a meeting so I wasn’t able to watch it live but an outstanding result. Reading both the forums it does seem that this really was a tactical master stroke by GA and co. He really does seem to have developed this part of his managerial abilities in recent years.
It was also pleasing to see praise for our organised defence. Since Fleetwood we did seem to lose that for some reason so it’s great to see that we seem back to our best there.
On the faking head injuries to try and stop a sides momentum. We are clearly not alone in doing this but we certainly did it at Rotherham the other week and it does seem to be effective.
I can however see how frustrating it is and as the tactic becomes more widespread (if it is effective it will do) I’m sure we will be on the receiving end regularly.
At the moment the ref has to respond and then add the time on, but by then the ‘damage’ has been done. I quite like the idea someone posted on their forum of a concussion-type time out check (it was suggested after a head injury the player can’t return for 5 minutes). I appreciate that most head injuries are genuine, but if the faking of head injuries does become endemic I think there may be merit in considering it.
I think a lesson was learnt at Fleetwood, where there three man substitution was heavily designed to target Joe's lack of pace.
So switching Orbita to a traditional left back, rather than a 'helping out defensive wing back' stops them doing an overload down the right.
@Shev said:
Plymouth had 27 shots, which is incredible given how much time we supposedly wasted. I guess our dark arts extend to messing up stroker accuracy...
@Shev said:
Plymouth had 27 shots, which is incredible given how much time we supposedly wasted. I guess our dark arts extend to messing up stroker accuracy...
After reading a few Plymouth fans that seems to be almost 1.5 shots per minute that the ball was on play. Amazing when you factor in how many sailed over the bar
On the subject of defenders being used as emergency holding midfielders, I’ve always wondered if Joe Jacobson would be any good there.
His defensive nous would make him great at breaking up play, he’d win everything in the air and his range of passing from that position would be brilliant with that left foot. Also would give him the occasional shooting opportunity from central positions around 25-30 yards out.
I’d still opt for Pendlebury, as I’m sure Gareth will but JJ could be an alternative option - particularly if he was being left out to accommodate a switch to a flat back four. Hell of a player to leave on the bench.
Belated thanks @micra@StrongestTeam@Shev@drcongo and anyone else. Hopefully I wasn’t too awful to listen to, but I think we can safely say it went better than last time…
Great performance and a superb result. Hats off to all those who travelled - excellent away support and in good voice too.
@Theatre_of_Chairs said:
On the subject of defenders being used as emergency holding midfielders, I’ve always wondered if Joe Jacobson would be any good there.
His defensive nous would make him great at breaking up play, he’d win everything in the air and his range of passing from that position would be brilliant with that left foot. Also would give him the occasional shooting opportunity from central positions around 25-30 yards out.
I’d still opt for Pendlebury, as I’m sure Gareth will but JJ could be an alternative option - particularly if he was being left out to accommodate a switch to a flat back four. Hell of a player to leave on the bench.
Could also be a good shout as a one off! From the discussion so far it would seem we are concerned about being too lightweight in midfield against Wednesday if our main three defensive midfielders are out of action. Which, to me, means we need a stronger option to play two man centre midfield or we need three in the middle for the weekend.
What a result last night, an absolutely brilliant performance. Stewart was the pick of an excellent defence, and we contained a very good side to mostly to long shots and half chances.
I sometimes question the positivity of the approach but I though yesterday was perfect. A really good mix of direct and passing football, and attacked throughout when we could.
Obviously Mehmeti was fantastic and the second goal was something really special. His potential is just massive. We all want him to stay long term of course so we’re a little biased, but I do think we are a great place for him to develop, learn the ugly side of the game (which he is rapidly improving) and learn all of the attacking tricks from Sign a 3 year contract and if we’re not in Championship in 18 months and he’s early a move, let him go to a bigger club - he’d be just 21/22. Leaving too soon and sitting on the bench most weeks at a Championship club is not going to be a good move.
Finally I did just want to say how brilliant Sam Vokes was last night. A great goal and his all round play has really improved in recent games particularly (not that he was poor at all previously). Not surprising it’s taken some time as he’d barely played for 2 years but he’s looking stronger and fitter all the time. His flick ons are obviously great with others learning to anticipate now, but let’s keep getting the ball into his feet too, he’s a cracking player on the deck as well.
@ChasHarps said:
I think a lesson was learnt at Fleetwood, where there three man substitution was heavily designed to target Joe's lack of pace.
So switching Orbita to a traditional left back, rather than a 'helping out defensive wing back' stops them doing an overload down the right.
It’s rare that cheap pun opportunities don’t get immediately pounced on (other than the honourable former Cuban revolutionary exception of @glasshalfempty) so:
…yes, Jordan was certainly “running rings” round the opposition.
No matter what happens with Anis, it has been a joy to watch him play in the quarters in both the second and third tiers. According to Wiki he has already made 40 appearances, and by the end of the season it could be 60 or so (assuming he stays in Jan).
We all know he won't be here forever based on his trajectory, but for me it is about drinking in the moment, and in the future saying: "You know that Albanian player who scored the winner against Brazil in the WC? We developed him."
Similarly, I am getting nothing but a tremendous kick from seeing Vokes, McLeary and these other lads grace our colours. What times we live in!
Comments
Indeed...as we moan constantly about by-passing the midfield, surely who plays there is immaterial.
Wheeler, Pendlebury, McCarthy, Bloomfield? As long as they can put in a shift in an injury raddled side I would be happy with any of them, but that means we need Tools to stay where he is!
As for Plymouth, hopefully they can regroup and beat Wigan.
This is absolutely fine in my book. If you know the keeper isn't in a hurry to collect the ball when its in play, close him down.
Our best defender who wasn't in your starting XI on the eve of the season...
Andy Harman played in both positions for Wycombe, not over successful in either. Preffered him in midfield, as his heading could be quite calamitous in our box.
You've got a better memory than me! But no, at the time he wasn't.
Rambo Bressington was pretty good in both positions.
There was a great moment where Stocko was casually strolling forward to collect the ball when we'd won a free kick and several Plymouth players were frothing at the mouth about it, despite one of them standing quite close to the ball and not collecting it himself.
The galling thing is I've seen many Rotherham fans on Twitter joining in and agreeing with the Janners. Rotherham spent the majority of the first half in our last game rolling about and wasting a lot of time!
Rambo Bressington was pretty good in both positions.
There was a throw in we took a while over pretty early, it may have been on purpose but looked like the taker just wasn't seeing good options and was shouting at people to move. Got a rollicking from the Plymouth lot obviously but was kind of funny because Kanara was in exactly the same situation barely 5 mins later and was reminded by our fans.
Did he pop by with his observations? Must have missed it.
@pafcprogs
‘Silence Is Golden’
To be fair, they must get tired of us going to their home, grabbing a beer from their fridge and putting our feet on the furniture.
Then 'Pissing on their chips'
Had a meeting so I wasn’t able to watch it live but an outstanding result. Reading both the forums it does seem that this really was a tactical master stroke by GA and co. He really does seem to have developed this part of his managerial abilities in recent years.
It was also pleasing to see praise for our organised defence. Since Fleetwood we did seem to lose that for some reason so it’s great to see that we seem back to our best there.
On the faking head injuries to try and stop a sides momentum. We are clearly not alone in doing this but we certainly did it at Rotherham the other week and it does seem to be effective.
I can however see how frustrating it is and as the tactic becomes more widespread (if it is effective it will do) I’m sure we will be on the receiving end regularly.
At the moment the ref has to respond and then add the time on, but by then the ‘damage’ has been done. I quite like the idea someone posted on their forum of a concussion-type time out check (it was suggested after a head injury the player can’t return for 5 minutes). I appreciate that most head injuries are genuine, but if the faking of head injuries does become endemic I think there may be merit in considering it.
I think a lesson was learnt at Fleetwood, where there three man substitution was heavily designed to target Joe's lack of pace.
So switching Orbita to a traditional left back, rather than a 'helping out defensive wing back' stops them doing an overload down the right.
To be fair, he was out of this world!
Plymouth had 27 shots, which is incredible given how much time we supposedly wasted. I guess our dark arts extend to messing up stroker accuracy...
Ahem
After reading a few Plymouth fans that seems to be almost 1.5 shots per minute that the ball was on play. Amazing when you factor in how many sailed over the bar
On the subject of defenders being used as emergency holding midfielders, I’ve always wondered if Joe Jacobson would be any good there.
His defensive nous would make him great at breaking up play, he’d win everything in the air and his range of passing from that position would be brilliant with that left foot. Also would give him the occasional shooting opportunity from central positions around 25-30 yards out.
I’d still opt for Pendlebury, as I’m sure Gareth will but JJ could be an alternative option - particularly if he was being left out to accommodate a switch to a flat back four. Hell of a player to leave on the bench.
Belated thanks @micra @StrongestTeam @Shev @drcongo and anyone else. Hopefully I wasn’t too awful to listen to, but I think we can safely say it went better than last time…
Great performance and a superb result. Hats off to all those who travelled - excellent away support and in good voice too.
By the way, McCarthy took a right whack to the back of the head. I’d be amazed if he let them do that to waste some time.
Must have been extremely annoying for you to be watching the team you love but not actually able to celebrate any of the goals, ???
He celebrated those 4 on Saturday, at Ole's farewell party.
Could also be a good shout as a one off! From the discussion so far it would seem we are concerned about being too lightweight in midfield against Wednesday if our main three defensive midfielders are out of action. Which, to me, means we need a stronger option to play two man centre midfield or we need three in the middle for the weekend.
I’d play 4-5-1
Grimmer Stewart/McCarthy Tafa JJ
McCleary Wheeler Stewart/McCarthy Mehmeti Obita
Vokes
What a result last night, an absolutely brilliant performance. Stewart was the pick of an excellent defence, and we contained a very good side to mostly to long shots and half chances.
I sometimes question the positivity of the approach but I though yesterday was perfect. A really good mix of direct and passing football, and attacked throughout when we could.
Obviously Mehmeti was fantastic and the second goal was something really special. His potential is just massive. We all want him to stay long term of course so we’re a little biased, but I do think we are a great place for him to develop, learn the ugly side of the game (which he is rapidly improving) and learn all of the attacking tricks from Sign a 3 year contract and if we’re not in Championship in 18 months and he’s early a move, let him go to a bigger club - he’d be just 21/22. Leaving too soon and sitting on the bench most weeks at a Championship club is not going to be a good move.
Finally I did just want to say how brilliant Sam Vokes was last night. A great goal and his all round play has really improved in recent games particularly (not that he was poor at all previously). Not surprising it’s taken some time as he’d barely played for 2 years but he’s looking stronger and fitter all the time. His flick ons are obviously great with others learning to anticipate now, but let’s keep getting the ball into his feet too, he’s a cracking player on the deck as well.
from McCleary...
It’s rare that cheap pun opportunities don’t get immediately pounced on (other than the honourable former Cuban revolutionary exception of @glasshalfempty) so:
…yes, Jordan was certainly “running rings” round the opposition.
No matter what happens with Anis, it has been a joy to watch him play in the quarters in both the second and third tiers. According to Wiki he has already made 40 appearances, and by the end of the season it could be 60 or so (assuming he stays in Jan).
We all know he won't be here forever based on his trajectory, but for me it is about drinking in the moment, and in the future saying: "You know that Albanian player who scored the winner against Brazil in the WC? We developed him."
Similarly, I am getting nothing but a tremendous kick from seeing Vokes, McLeary and these other lads grace our colours. What times we live in!