@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
I’ll put it out there, we are not playing to Vokes’s strength. Best striker in the club not sure we are doing right by him.
Think he won a couple of headers all afternoon just as he was about to get subbed. Not been at every game but the ones I've seen I've not been impressed to be honest.
Controversy aside, I was a bit disappointed with the both the quality of our play in the second half - we failed to make the most of some counter-attacking/ pressure relieving opportunities through poor use of the ball by potentially breaking players - and the Bayo-ball nature of the tactics. MK were certainly good at moving the ball around and made us work very half but I hoped we might have been reaching the point in our evolution where we could try to play our way out a little more often rather than always booting it towards the vicinity of Vokes/Bayo. As usual, no complaints about the effort of anyone and we were decent in the first half. A very bright opening - Vokes should have scored, no?
On the controversy:
a) not clear that Parrott was offside for the through ball - I was better placed than most in the stand and watching the run as it happened so feel comfortable making that judgement
b) one of Stewart's worst bits of defending for a while - not reading the run and making a very poor challenge that was certainly capable of being interpreted as a non-attempt at the ball. If you've a <20% chance of winning a challenge (and I could be persuaded the percentage was different), you're kind of asking for trouble
c) what on earth was going on in Parrott's mind after scoring? There seemed some real malice in his taunting celebration.
Watching on line, our disallowed goal was the correct decision. I would like to know from our supporters in the ground whether, for their goal, their forward was played onside by Obita or was offside. It looked a clear offside from the TV but they panned out too slowly to tell. Our supporters are much more likely to have.been in line.
Also, isn’t the red just a one match ban as it was not violent play?
As above, their forward was close to offside and may have been but it certainly was not flagrantly so from our angle. (I was almost exactly in line with the goal line, at the far left of our area.)
@Thicketblue said:
Watching on line, our disallowed goal was the correct decision. I would like to know from our supporters in the ground whether, for their goal, their forward was played onside by Obita or was offside. It looked a clear offside from the TV but they panned out too slowly to tell. Our supporters are much more likely to have.been in line.
Also, isn’t the red just a one match ban as it was not violent play?
Should be one match - we have Shrewsbury next, so hopefully just move Grimmer to RCB and Jason in for RWB.
They scored an early pen and held on against ten men so I am not of the opinion we have been totally outplayed by a superior footballing side. Bayo and Hanlon were good when they came on and we could have nicked a point. 11 against 11 and I think we would have taken at least a point if not won. Wigan and Sunderland may well be up there come May...not convinced MK will be.
Disappointing day. Very similar to Oxford away 2 seasons back in that you knew it'd be a grim hold on job and try and steal a lucky fall of a ball from a long ball or set piece.
Excuses are clearly there with a 10man job against one of the teams likely to be up there, but I'm starting to worry about how we're using Vokes and whether we have in Peter Taylor's lingo, enough "goals in the building".
@Wendoverman said:
They scored an early pen and held on against ten men so I am not of the opinion we have been totally outplayed by a superior footballing side. Bayo and Hanlon were good when they came on and we could have nicked a point. 11 against 11 and I think we would have taken at least a point if not won. Wigan and Sunderland may well be up there come May...not convinced MK will be.
To be fair, they defended well when we had a few spells of late pressure.
We weren’t exactly hammering on the door though, keeper wasn’t really tested.
Usually with dodgy refereeing decisions you can at least justify their decision making process, even if it is objectively (with the benefit of tv footage) wrong.
I just don't understand how he's deemed Stewart's challenge worthy of a red, given the introduction of the double jeopardy rule. He's slid in with his foot, whilst alongside the striker, no last gasp ditch rugby tackle or a blatant shirt pull when 2 yards behind. He's gone right through the striker so no argument with the pen, but surely that's overturned after 1 video review in EFL HQ just based on correct application of the laws
I doubt anyone would have felt hard done by at a pen and yellow, as that's what we know the rule is. He's made a strangely "brave" call to go with the extreme punishment, and it absolutely wrecked the game if we're honest.
The fact even Gareth has made a big point about it not being a red says it all.
He's probably the manager who least relies on the bad decisions excuse locker.
The stats show it would have been a tad unfair on them who shall not be named if we had come away with anything. 11 v 11 a hard game, 11 v 10 its no wonder they had an overwhelming amount of the game regardless of our tactics
@adamspark said:
I've never heard GA criticise a referee so strongly in a post match interview, he's usually very restrained, but today he was clearly fuming.
Not surprised. It absolutely killed the game.
Leaving us trying to steal a goal on a low percentage set piece like some kind of cup minnow, when we were comfortably keeping them at bay before hand with chances of our own.
@Croider said:
Usually with dodgy refereeing decisions you can at least justify their decision making process, even if it is objectively (with the benefit of tv footage) wrong.
I just don't understand how he's deemed Stewart's challenge worthy of a red, given the introduction of the double jeopardy rule. He's slid in with his foot, whilst alongside the striker, no last gasp ditch rugby tackle or a blatant shirt pull when 2 yards behind. He's gone right through the striker so no argument with the pen, but surely that's overturned after 1 video review in EFL HQ just based on correct application of the laws
Another frustrating game to watch, but for very different reasons today. First half was a good game where we started well, with McCleary and Horgan looking very dangerous. Vokes should’ve scored a gilt edged chance and Horgan was unlucky with a beautiful curling effort. MK came back into the game and passed the ball well without a great deal of threat. We scored which was correctly chalked off and then a really poor decision ruined the game. Definite penalty, definite yellow card. Sending off Stewart was a really poor decision, as the rule change was brought in to ensure sure teams were not double penalised (or in fact thrice penalised with the suspension), unless it was not a real attempt at a challenge, eg, rugby tackle, blatant pull back, blatant trip or kick etc. The decision ruined the game and we just can’t compete with 10 men with the way we play.
Second half we defended as well as we could but were just trying to stay in it for an attempt to get a goal back late on. We did ok and created a few half chances but never really looked like scoring to be honest.
I am, like a lot of others, feeling quite down this evening, but we have had 4 very tough away games to start the season, we haven’t really got going yet, and a huge part of our attacking play towards the end of last season (McCarthy) has barely played yet. We need him back in the side from Tuesday going forward. We also
need to get back to a front 2 at times with Hanlan alongside Vokes, whose flicks on are generally excellent but currently falling into open space.
After 7 games last season we had zero points, and yet we competed great in the end. I’m still pretty confident we have a lot of improvement to come in the team this season and should be competing in the playoffs, but perhaps not right at the top unless we can get on a good run and Hanlan or Vokes can get on a good run of goals. Let’s hope for that.
I agree about playoffs being a more realistic proposition than automatics. I could see Sunderland and Wigan walking away with this. The lack of a clinical edge is concerning, though the home/away dichotomy has us looking like two different teams at times (which is often the reality with football anyway).
There are a lot of positives, though - we look like geniuses for locking Hanlan up for three years, for starters. I already love the way he plays, and he is the future of our central goalscoring position (with the flexibility to move into other roles if needed).
The defence was outstanding, and maybe having this much pressure over the course of two games will accelerate any remaining gelling/brushing off of cobwebs. It has been a hard watch to barely see us with the ball for two games, but perhaps it will benefit us in defensive solidity all the more going forward.
Another positive is that Mehmeti, Gape and McCarthy are all back in and around the team, giving us more options. McCarthy especially is so key to making our attacks click down that right side. To my mind, we have not played our best eleven in the league until he is back at RWB, with apologies to Grimmer (who I voted as my MOTM today, though it was a defensive coin toss really).
Finally, while I agree the competitiveness of this division (and clubs like Derby and Reading having the potential to drop down) make the difficulty of getting out of it a harsh reality now that we have played a few games, the success of the development squad and our clever signings means we can quite clearly see a bright future, even if we lose all three of our starting forwards. If next season is Hanlan flanked by Mehmeti and a more confident (and natural positioned) Kaikai, we will have goals in us. Pendlebury is also a huge positive, and if he develops into a starter, he will give us something that the brilliant three of Gape, Thompson and Scowen do not offer between them - goals.
A difficult day, but nothing overall to indicate we are anything but still smack dab in the middle of a golden era.
Simple equation that GA has mentioned time and again when we create chances we need to take them. Vokes should be p1ssing this league, Horgan has yet to score a goal, Kaikai doesn’t appear to be up to speed yet, Hanlan has yet to start, McCleary is our only regular threat. We quite simply need to score goals.
So far Hanlan looks like he has gift of knowing where to be for the flick on. When he came on with Bayo It was clear the plan was he stayed around the big man but was always looking to make sure he had space to receive and go. Useful talent to have, finding those spaces.
Bit of a reality check. We’ve played the top three away from home plus last year’s playoff semi final losers. And we’re 6th. That’s really very good, considering the clubs in this league.
We've played EIGHT games. We can see what we're doing well and what we need to improve on, but it's faaar to early to be drawing any grand conclusions.
Comments
Think he won a couple of headers all afternoon just as he was about to get subbed. Not been at every game but the ones I've seen I've not been impressed to be honest.
Controversy aside, I was a bit disappointed with the both the quality of our play in the second half - we failed to make the most of some counter-attacking/ pressure relieving opportunities through poor use of the ball by potentially breaking players - and the Bayo-ball nature of the tactics. MK were certainly good at moving the ball around and made us work very half but I hoped we might have been reaching the point in our evolution where we could try to play our way out a little more often rather than always booting it towards the vicinity of Vokes/Bayo. As usual, no complaints about the effort of anyone and we were decent in the first half. A very bright opening - Vokes should have scored, no?
On the controversy:
a) not clear that Parrott was offside for the through ball - I was better placed than most in the stand and watching the run as it happened so feel comfortable making that judgement
b) one of Stewart's worst bits of defending for a while - not reading the run and making a very poor challenge that was certainly capable of being interpreted as a non-attempt at the ball. If you've a <20% chance of winning a challenge (and I could be persuaded the percentage was different), you're kind of asking for trouble
c) what on earth was going on in Parrott's mind after scoring? There seemed some real malice in his taunting celebration.
Watching on line, our disallowed goal was the correct decision. I would like to know from our supporters in the ground whether, for their goal, their forward was played onside by Obita or was offside. It looked a clear offside from the TV but they panned out too slowly to tell. Our supporters are much more likely to have.been in line.
Also, isn’t the red just a one match ban as it was not violent play?
As above, their forward was close to offside and may have been but it certainly was not flagrantly so from our angle. (I was almost exactly in line with the goal line, at the far left of our area.)
Should be one match - we have Shrewsbury next, so hopefully just move Grimmer to RCB and Jason in for RWB.
It's the being genuine as an attempt for the ball that was key, not what you suggest.
Ref obviously thought it wasn't one.
They scored an early pen and held on against ten men so I am not of the opinion we have been totally outplayed by a superior footballing side. Bayo and Hanlon were good when they came on and we could have nicked a point. 11 against 11 and I think we would have taken at least a point if not won. Wigan and Sunderland may well be up there come May...not convinced MK will be.
Disappointing day. Very similar to Oxford away 2 seasons back in that you knew it'd be a grim hold on job and try and steal a lucky fall of a ball from a long ball or set piece.
Excuses are clearly there with a 10man job against one of the teams likely to be up there, but I'm starting to worry about how we're using Vokes and whether we have in Peter Taylor's lingo, enough "goals in the building".
We are so different home v away, too. Though if you look at our away games so far, it has been quite the gauntlet!
Possibly so, @shev, though I thought we played some good, threatening stuff until we went down to ten.
To be fair, they defended well when we had a few spells of late pressure.
We weren’t exactly hammering on the door though, keeper wasn’t really tested.
Usually with dodgy refereeing decisions you can at least justify their decision making process, even if it is objectively (with the benefit of tv footage) wrong.
I just don't understand how he's deemed Stewart's challenge worthy of a red, given the introduction of the double jeopardy rule. He's slid in with his foot, whilst alongside the striker, no last gasp ditch rugby tackle or a blatant shirt pull when 2 yards behind. He's gone right through the striker so no argument with the pen, but surely that's overturned after 1 video review in EFL HQ just based on correct application of the laws
You would think so @croider.
I doubt anyone would have felt hard done by at a pen and yellow, as that's what we know the rule is. He's made a strangely "brave" call to go with the extreme punishment, and it absolutely wrecked the game if we're honest.
The only consolation is that by this time last season we were about four deep into game altering awful decisions.
The fact even Gareth has made a big point about it not being a red says it all.
He's probably the manager who least relies on the bad decisions excuse locker.
The stats show it would have been a tad unfair on them who shall not be named if we had come away with anything. 11 v 11 a hard game, 11 v 10 its no wonder they had an overwhelming amount of the game regardless of our tactics
I've never heard GA criticise a referee so strongly in a post match interview, he's usually very restrained, but today he was clearly fuming.
Not surprised. It absolutely killed the game.
Leaving us trying to steal a goal on a low percentage set piece like some kind of cup minnow, when we were comfortably keeping them at bay before hand with chances of our own.
Isn't this similar to the David Luiz sending off?
https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/news/david-luiz-sent-off-wolves-19756346
Another frustrating game to watch, but for very different reasons today. First half was a good game where we started well, with McCleary and Horgan looking very dangerous. Vokes should’ve scored a gilt edged chance and Horgan was unlucky with a beautiful curling effort. MK came back into the game and passed the ball well without a great deal of threat. We scored which was correctly chalked off and then a really poor decision ruined the game. Definite penalty, definite yellow card. Sending off Stewart was a really poor decision, as the rule change was brought in to ensure sure teams were not double penalised (or in fact thrice penalised with the suspension), unless it was not a real attempt at a challenge, eg, rugby tackle, blatant pull back, blatant trip or kick etc. The decision ruined the game and we just can’t compete with 10 men with the way we play.
Second half we defended as well as we could but were just trying to stay in it for an attempt to get a goal back late on. We did ok and created a few half chances but never really looked like scoring to be honest.
I am, like a lot of others, feeling quite down this evening, but we have had 4 very tough away games to start the season, we haven’t really got going yet, and a huge part of our attacking play towards the end of last season (McCarthy) has barely played yet. We need him back in the side from Tuesday going forward. We also
need to get back to a front 2 at times with Hanlan alongside Vokes, whose flicks on are generally excellent but currently falling into open space.
After 7 games last season we had zero points, and yet we competed great in the end. I’m still pretty confident we have a lot of improvement to come in the team this season and should be competing in the playoffs, but perhaps not right at the top unless we can get on a good run and Hanlan or Vokes can get on a good run of goals. Let’s hope for that.
I agree about playoffs being a more realistic proposition than automatics. I could see Sunderland and Wigan walking away with this. The lack of a clinical edge is concerning, though the home/away dichotomy has us looking like two different teams at times (which is often the reality with football anyway).
There are a lot of positives, though - we look like geniuses for locking Hanlan up for three years, for starters. I already love the way he plays, and he is the future of our central goalscoring position (with the flexibility to move into other roles if needed).
The defence was outstanding, and maybe having this much pressure over the course of two games will accelerate any remaining gelling/brushing off of cobwebs. It has been a hard watch to barely see us with the ball for two games, but perhaps it will benefit us in defensive solidity all the more going forward.
Another positive is that Mehmeti, Gape and McCarthy are all back in and around the team, giving us more options. McCarthy especially is so key to making our attacks click down that right side. To my mind, we have not played our best eleven in the league until he is back at RWB, with apologies to Grimmer (who I voted as my MOTM today, though it was a defensive coin toss really).
Finally, while I agree the competitiveness of this division (and clubs like Derby and Reading having the potential to drop down) make the difficulty of getting out of it a harsh reality now that we have played a few games, the success of the development squad and our clever signings means we can quite clearly see a bright future, even if we lose all three of our starting forwards. If next season is Hanlan flanked by Mehmeti and a more confident (and natural positioned) Kaikai, we will have goals in us. Pendlebury is also a huge positive, and if he develops into a starter, he will give us something that the brilliant three of Gape, Thompson and Scowen do not offer between them - goals.
A difficult day, but nothing overall to indicate we are anything but still smack dab in the middle of a golden era.
Simple equation that GA has mentioned time and again when we create chances we need to take them. Vokes should be p1ssing this league, Horgan has yet to score a goal, Kaikai doesn’t appear to be up to speed yet, Hanlan has yet to start, McCleary is our only regular threat. We quite simply need to score goals.
So far Hanlan looks like he has gift of knowing where to be for the flick on. When he came on with Bayo It was clear the plan was he stayed around the big man but was always looking to make sure he had space to receive and go. Useful talent to have, finding those spaces.
Bayo looked good again when he came on.
Just seen the replay of the penalty, how was that ever a red card?
Definite penalty but clear attempt to play the ball.
He did. Losing the game and not really able to get much possession. A really useful asset in that type of situation.
Bit of a reality check. We’ve played the top three away from home plus last year’s playoff semi final losers. And we’re 6th. That’s really very good, considering the clubs in this league.
Plus we have a game in hand on the three teams above us.
We've played EIGHT games. We can see what we're doing well and what we need to improve on, but it's faaar to early to be drawing any grand conclusions.
Also 3 home 5 away, compared to Sunderland 5 home 3 away.
Nothing in it at this stage...