@TheDancingYak said:
For those questioning Southgate- anyone have a genuine alternative?
The other Gareth......
I don't support England so as an outsider I can say you have good players but you don't have a good team. Maybe Brexit is to blame. The English think they are better than Europe and are doing them a favour just by turning up. CF Eurovision.
@TheDancingYak said:
For those questioning Southgate- anyone have a genuine alternative?
The other Gareth......
I don't support England so as an outsider I can say you have good players but you don't have a good team. Maybe Brexit is to blame. The English think they are better than Europe and are doing them a favour just by turning up. CF Eurovision.
England being uninspiring predates Brexit by a good half century, unfortunately!
@TheDancingYak said:
For those questioning Southgate- anyone have a genuine alternative?
The other Gareth......
I don't support England so as an outsider I can say you have good players but you don't have a good team. Maybe Brexit is to blame. The English think they are better than Europe and are doing them a favour just by turning up. CF Eurovision.
Eurovision is quite different although it's easy to chuck arrogance at England mostly based on things a long time ago. At Eurovision every one hates us, or at least they all have fun enjoying the joke at our expense, we've had worldwide hits get close to zero points, so if we send someone rubbish or they don't try hard it's kind of part of the joke as it doesn't matter anyway.
In the Euro's we're hyped up on the back of meaningless friendlies and weak qualifiers for two years then set up to scream and shout at them if they wobble. We're supposed to be one of the favourites ITV shouted several times as they do. Who's favourites? Who picked us over France, Italy and Spain or even Belgium and Croatia who usually beat us? Our press hype everything up for ratings and then give it faux outrage afterwards.
Strongest Team has pretty much summed up my views on the England team. We’ve won just one major competition in our history (on home soil) yet we go into every tournament with sky high expectations, inevitably leading to angry recriminations when we fail. We might have invented the game, but we’ve since been left behind by several other nations.
Well quite, and we fell behind largely because the FA put their faith in the methods of Charles Hughes for so long - and we still haven't fully recovered from that.
People talk about an English football identity, but really ours is a mixture of the identities of other top European nations (Michael Cox is excellent on this in Zonal Marking) - and consistently having some of the best coaches in the game in the Premier League for quite a while now has been a major driving force behind that. It's just a shame the national team is being held back by such a tactically limited coach.
@glasshalffull said:
Strongest Team has pretty much summed up my views on the England team. We’ve won just one major competition in our history (on home soil) yet we go into every tournament with sky high expectations, inevitably leading to angry recriminations when we fail. We might have invented the game, but we’ve since been left behind by several other nations.
Hubris is the English disease. We’re taught from school that we’re a great nation and that we “rule the waves”, while most of the rest of the world sees us as pompous, colonialist arseholes responsible for more suffering around the world than any other country.
To be fair I think that most of us realise that we are pompous, colonial arseholes. That is the only plausible explanation I can come up as to why we voted for an Uber-pompous, colonial arsehole as our ‘leader’.
Sadly @bookertease unlike our glorious leader the England team.cannot just give the thumbs up, shout 'On to Victory! ' and 'peg it out of the room before anyone can ask any difficult questions.'
I can’t see Wales beating Italy although Wales impressed me in their last performance and I do like their small team competing against much larger opposition with spirit it reminds me of some other team ?
@bookertease said:
To be fair I think that most of us realise that we are pompous, colonial arseholes. That is the only plausible explanation I can come up as to why we voted for an Uber-pompous, colonial arsehole as our ‘leader’.
We are not alone in the arsehole stakes. What reasonable balanced individual would vote for the likes of Macron, Trump and Putin (albeit the latter massively rigged).
@mooneyman I think 'massively rigged' might be a slight understatement. At least there is/ was a slight chance of bozzer and trump losing...even if they don't believe it. Italy Wales will be a draw methinks.
And now we see one of the big problems of the 24-team format: Switzerland have finished their group campaign but might not know if they're through until Wednesday.
@drcongo said:
England take off their best player for their most over hyped.
@drcongo said:
I thought it was very charitable of the commentator to say “England give it away” every time Grealish gave it away, which was nearly every time he touched it.
I can't believe anyone who thinks Grealish is overhyped watches him for Villa.
If we were to go off this tournament alone, you'd think Kane was some lower league player roped in.
England have a way of nullifying supreme talents and have done for years.
@drcongo said:
England take off their best player for their most over hyped.
@drcongo said:
I thought it was very charitable of the commentator to say “England give it away” every time Grealish gave it away, which was nearly every time he touched it.
I actually looked that up after I posted it, I think it only tells about 20% of the story. It doesn't include all the times Grealish held on to the ball too long and had it nicked off him, it doesn't account for the fact that Grealish barely even tried anything more than a 4 yard pass (one of which he passed to the corner flag and someone had to leg it out there to pick it up, "pass complete"), and so on.
I agree @Malone we can argue about Grealish but the players selected were all players that anyone would have selected, more or less in the positions they would have been selected in. (I would have kept Trippier at LB myself as Shaw was underwhelming) There are some fine attacking players in there but they seem unable to replicate their usual form in any way. It cannot all be the coach...surely top level players have enough arrogance to try something when things are not working. All that possession and passing across instead of forward is getting us nowehere. Is it possible there is some sort of mental hurdle?
@drcongo said:
I actually looked that up after I posted it, I think it only tells about 20% of the story. It doesn't include all the times Grealish held on to the ball too long and had it nicked off him, it doesn't account for the fact that Grealish barely even tried anything more than a 4 yard pass (one of which he passed to the corner flag and someone had to leg it out there to pick it up, "pass complete"), and so on.
I wholeheartedly agree that stats only tell some of the story. However, that is a very strange representation of Grealish's performance against Scotland (not to mention how he plays in general). Did he frequently hold onto it too long and get dispossessed, or did he barely try anything more than a 4 yard pass? They seem rather contradictory, unless you think he should have been collecting the ball and punting it into the box. Also, having evidently watched him so closely, surely you noticed that they effectively doubled or trebled up on him every time he got the ball? When that happens, it's up to others to collect his pass and use the space elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I was disappointed that he was unable to create more in the time he was on, but I think you are badly misrepresenting his contribution.
Comments
That said, we can't be the only team with that problem?
France appear to have been watching our game last night
Regarding who should be the England manager, remember folks it was supposed to be Sam Alladyce.
With the notable difference that they actually played pretty well
The other Gareth......
I don't support England so as an outsider I can say you have good players but you don't have a good team. Maybe Brexit is to blame. The English think they are better than Europe and are doing them a favour just by turning up. CF Eurovision.
England being uninspiring predates Brexit by a good half century, unfortunately!
Fair enough
Eurovision is quite different although it's easy to chuck arrogance at England mostly based on things a long time ago. At Eurovision every one hates us, or at least they all have fun enjoying the joke at our expense, we've had worldwide hits get close to zero points, so if we send someone rubbish or they don't try hard it's kind of part of the joke as it doesn't matter anyway.
In the Euro's we're hyped up on the back of meaningless friendlies and weak qualifiers for two years then set up to scream and shout at them if they wobble. We're supposed to be one of the favourites ITV shouted several times as they do. Who's favourites? Who picked us over France, Italy and Spain or even Belgium and Croatia who usually beat us? Our press hype everything up for ratings and then give it faux outrage afterwards.
I never for one moment thought we could win it, quarter finals at best I reckon, epsc with a manager who seems very reluctant to actually attack
Strongest Team has pretty much summed up my views on the England team. We’ve won just one major competition in our history (on home soil) yet we go into every tournament with sky high expectations, inevitably leading to angry recriminations when we fail. We might have invented the game, but we’ve since been left behind by several other nations.
Well quite, and we fell behind largely because the FA put their faith in the methods of Charles Hughes for so long - and we still haven't fully recovered from that.
People talk about an English football identity, but really ours is a mixture of the identities of other top European nations (Michael Cox is excellent on this in Zonal Marking) - and consistently having some of the best coaches in the game in the Premier League for quite a while now has been a major driving force behind that. It's just a shame the national team is being held back by such a tactically limited coach.
Hubris is the English disease. We’re taught from school that we’re a great nation and that we “rule the waves”, while most of the rest of the world sees us as pompous, colonialist arseholes responsible for more suffering around the world than any other country.
To be fair I think that most of us realise that we are pompous, colonial arseholes. That is the only plausible explanation I can come up as to why we voted for an Uber-pompous, colonial arsehole as our ‘leader’.
Sadly @bookertease unlike our glorious leader the England team.cannot just give the thumbs up, shout 'On to Victory! ' and 'peg it out of the room before anyone can ask any difficult questions.'
I can’t see Wales beating Italy although Wales impressed me in their last performance and I do like their small team competing against much larger opposition with spirit it reminds me of some other team ?
We are not alone in the arsehole stakes. What reasonable balanced individual would vote for the likes of Macron, Trump and Putin (albeit the latter massively rigged).
I’m going for a 4-1 Italian win in their last game the Swiss were no slouches but they couldn’t get near the ball ditto Turkey
@mooneyman I think 'massively rigged' might be a slight understatement. At least there is/ was a slight chance of bozzer and trump losing...even if they don't believe it. Italy Wales will be a draw methinks.
Wales are +5 GD on the Swiss. As long as that is not overturned, they come 2nd.
The late offside flags are being taken to new extremes in this tournament.
I hate this not flagging straight away, I hope it's changed soon
I’d take the 1-0 at half time if I was the Welsh and look at changing the formation at half time.
And now we see one of the big problems of the 24-team format: Switzerland have finished their group campaign but might not know if they're through until Wednesday.
Foden - 80% pass completion
Grealish - 88% pass completion
Awkward.
I can't believe anyone who thinks Grealish is overhyped watches him for Villa.
If we were to go off this tournament alone, you'd think Kane was some lower league player roped in.
England have a way of nullifying supreme talents and have done for years.
I actually looked that up after I posted it, I think it only tells about 20% of the story. It doesn't include all the times Grealish held on to the ball too long and had it nicked off him, it doesn't account for the fact that Grealish barely even tried anything more than a 4 yard pass (one of which he passed to the corner flag and someone had to leg it out there to pick it up, "pass complete"), and so on.
I agree @Malone we can argue about Grealish but the players selected were all players that anyone would have selected, more or less in the positions they would have been selected in. (I would have kept Trippier at LB myself as Shaw was underwhelming) There are some fine attacking players in there but they seem unable to replicate their usual form in any way. It cannot all be the coach...surely top level players have enough arrogance to try something when things are not working. All that possession and passing across instead of forward is getting us nowehere. Is it possible there is some sort of mental hurdle?
I’m not sure I’d have left out one of Dortmund’s best players in favour of two holding midfielders from Leeds and West Ham.
I wholeheartedly agree that stats only tell some of the story. However, that is a very strange representation of Grealish's performance against Scotland (not to mention how he plays in general). Did he frequently hold onto it too long and get dispossessed, or did he barely try anything more than a 4 yard pass? They seem rather contradictory, unless you think he should have been collecting the ball and punting it into the box. Also, having evidently watched him so closely, surely you noticed that they effectively doubled or trebled up on him every time he got the ball? When that happens, it's up to others to collect his pass and use the space elsewhere. Don't get me wrong, I was disappointed that he was unable to create more in the time he was on, but I think you are badly misrepresenting his contribution.