@ReturnToSenda said:
Nickelback once had rocks chucked at them on stage
Read somewhere that Morrissey cancelled a gig on his Meat is murder tour after he was smacked in the face with a sausage thrown from the crowd shortly after taking to the stage
Strange how things change...I bet that banterous sausage chucker is a big Morrissey fan now...
@Shev said:
We may be debating which of Eze, Saka, Rashford, Sancho, Foden, Mount and Grealish to squeeze into the few starting places for years to come, let alone other players yet to emerge!
I’m more looking forward to seeing which lone centre forward will be picked to play deep in midfield.
Just read most of the wonderful messages of support for Marcus Rashford on Twitter and his statement about that penalty, his general lack of confidence (as a result of a troubled season, or words to that effect) and what was going through his mind as he took the long run up.
I was reading his message to mrs micra until I got to the last bit where he talks about being a 23 year old black man from Withington and Wythenshaw and, if nothing else, he has that. Something happened at that point which took even me - a very emotional person - almost totally by surprise. I burst into tears and couldn’t finish reading Marcus’s message.
But it was great to have seen, by chance, the positive side of social media. I rarely visit Twitter but was looking at @bluntphil’s post about watching the Final with Farzana Chaudry, one of his Three Counties colleagues, and that led to the messages of support for Marcus Rashford.
I have felt really deflated since Sunday night. So tantalisingly close to history and it has been a real downer seeing and reading about the violence and racism in the stadium and online.
Probably best to stay off social media for a few days and bask in how good the other knockout games were. I was privileged to be at Wembley for England v Germany and it was honestly one of the best days of my life and I am a club over country person. Likewise the celebrations vs Denmark were incredible. This squad and management team gave us all some unforgettable memories against the likes of Germany, Ukraine and Denmark when this country really needed some unity and a lift following a really depressing 18 months of COVID. They deserve our praise and gratitude not some of the disgusting behaviour we have seen on the day of the final and since. Personally, I'd like to thank both Gareth Southgate and the team for giving me some amazing moments to cherish.
Final thought from me. Watching football without crowds for the past season has been an often soulless experience and I have struggled with getting motivated to watch games. Even true of some Wycombe championship games, this was a historic season yet felt it was nothing like it should have been in the absence of supporters. The reintroduction of crowds particularly at Wembley but also in Denmark and Hungary showed me why I love this sport so much. Football without fans is nothing and the Euros showed us the path back towards what we are used to. I hope we can continue attending games as normal throughout the 2021/22 season as I've really missed it.
Not sure if it is just me, but I see real hope in these guys.
They are undoubtedly talented footballers and may win us a trophy in years to come. Or maybe they will not. Its just a game.
More importantly they are a group of young men giving us all an example of decency, hope and optimism and the unity it brings in stark contrast to the division fear and hatred deliberately stirred up by Johnson and Patel and Lee Anderson and Natalie Elphick all shamelessly blowing their dog whistles of racism in the hope of grubbing up a few votes from the sort of people who boo anthems, fight with stewards, deface murals and send foul anonymous racist messages on twitter. Then of course our politicians desperately try to row back and jump on the bandwagon when the football team wins a game or two.
Walk tall and be proud England footballers. Your example is one I would far rather follow. I am behind you all the way
I think I'm going to quit twitter, it's a cesspit of absolute horror and I can see how it could lead to mental health problems. I'll just stick to Facebook which isn't as bad.
Good post Dev. I really like this group of players, very publicly taking a stand for inclusivity, and against racism and homophobia. I wanted them to win on Sunday just for that. Shame about so many of the fans.
@HolmerBlue said:
I think I'm going to quit twitter, it's a cesspit of absolute horror and I can see how it could lead to mental health problems. I'll just stick to Facebook which isn't as bad.
My finger is hovering on that quit button too. It is just an exhausting platform that gives the worst of people the opportunity to speak their worst and twisted thoughts. Any attempt to engage with people is met with hate. It is just such an angry place.
Our players gave our country so much over the past month and yes we were all gutted when we didn't win but in what world is your response to go and direct hate at young kids? My heart broke for Saka on Sunday if I could have driven to Wembley and hugged the kid and told him that everything was going to be ok I would have done. And I believe I feel the same as the overwhelming majority of people in this country. But the worst of us have the loudest voice so it seems so we descend into a country-wide spiral of hate, anger, recrimination, accusation, posturing and just general nastiness.
So many people need to turn the temperature down and learn to listen to eachother.
Twitter is what you make it right? There's an unfollow button, a mute button, a block button, and my favourite, a turn off RTs button. Enthusiastic use of these every few weeks makes things much better.
Hard to keep away entirely when @bluntphil’s posts and podcasts are drawn to my attention by email. I usually seem to ‘miss out’ on the nasty, angry, hate-fuelled stuff.
@floyd said:
Twitter is what you make it right? There's an unfollow button, a mute button, a block button, and my favourite, a turn off RTs button. Enthusiastic use of these every few weeks makes things much better.
No, you're quite right. The mute button especially is a blessing - silence the drones without giving them the satisfaction of a block ?
I know it is a useful tool both for business and communications and I know there are ways as with the Gasroom and FB to limit the sewage you have to put up with but I am not on the Twitter and quite glad of it. I know many prominent people revel in their notoriety etc etc or feel it brings them closer to their audience but if I was a footballer or in showbiz (and wasn't using it to get paid for advertising) I would very publicly remove myself from it and any other social media tool which failed to address issues of abuse.
I follow the great Catlin Moran on twitter. She is a real role model for all and stands for a lot of good things in life when it comes to social justice. I don't always agree with her, but that's great too.
So last week she posted the brilliant video of Mason Mount giving Belle his shirt with a comment along the lines of Not a single mum in Britain can see this without crying. A fair comment, nicely expressed and a great video. This led to a mini pile on of people who were offended by this, Scots, Welsh and Irish of course. Men, women without children, a suggestion this excluded trans people, suggestion it was also homophobic or at least not sensitive to the that community. And in one tweet I gave up on humanity as displayed on Twitter.
I saw more than a few tweets yesterday accusing Southgate of being racist... why, because he made the 2 white players go first in the penalties
and the black lads go last , therefore putting more pressure on them !!
Poor old Caitlin.
As one commentator pointed out, the sad reality for black and brown Britons is that they know, for all the supposed advances and positivity they are still sadly always only 'one penalty kick away' from vicious racial abuse
Great post @DevC. Talking about 'violence and racism in the stadium' is a bit sensationalist @DJ. I didn't experience either. My friend had someone tey to push in behind him at the turnstyles and reading horrible reports of people trying to snatch phones for tickets. Awful stuff but not a general riot. Didn't experience any racism in stadium thats all twitter isn't it? I appreciate my experience doesnt encompass the whole stadium though. Security was dreadful on Sunday. How ticketless fans managed to get to the turnstiles I dont know
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
I follow the great Catlin Moran on twitter. She is a real role model for all and stands for a lot of good things in life when it comes to social justice. I don't always agree with her, but that's great too.
So last week she posted the brilliant video of Mason Mount giving Belle his shirt with a comment along the lines of Not a single mum in Britain can see this without crying. A fair comment, nicely expressed and a great video. This led to a mini pile on of people who were offended by this, Scots, Welsh and Irish of course. Men, women without children, a suggestion this excluded trans people, suggestion it was also homophobic or at least not sensitive to the that community. And in one tweet I gave up on humanity as displayed on Twitter.
Bloody hell, I just went to have a look at that as I too enjoy a lot of what Caitlin has to say and it just shows how utterly joyless, narcissistic and judgemental people can be. A sweet, throwaway comment and people have to try and tear it apart and make it all about themselves.
Like others I have to use Twitter as part of work and it really is a sewer of human idiocy and general nastiness.
@LX1 said:
Great post @DevC. Talking about 'violence and racism in the stadium' is a bit sensationalist @DJ. I didn't experience either. My friend had someone tey to push in behind him at the turnstyles and reading horrible reports of people trying to snatch phones for tickets. Awful stuff but not a general riot. Didn't experience any racism in stadium thats all twitter isn't it? I appreciate my experience doesnt encompass the whole stadium though. Security was dreadful on Sunday. How ticketless fans managed to get to the turnstiles I dont know
No shortage of people who hate football talking up it up I'm sure but the event management and policing side of it seems to have been an absolute shambles and there's a lot of clips of fighting , pushing and shoving through cordons, large groups cheering people snorting shit up their noses online, The fact it seems to be known as a soft touch for getting in without a ticket is a new one on me, good job it wasn't a full house. Interesting read below, particularly for me as a former local around the slightly ridiculous number of flats they've wedged in and wether it is still even a suitable venue
Twitter and Facebook are both horrendous tbh but examples of tech outstripping legislation and growing in to the kind of monopolies that mean people feel the need to use them. Anyone who thinks Facebook are the good guys or are doing anywhere near what they could be doing hasn't read very widely at all.
@LX1 said:
….I appreciate my experience doesnt encompass the whole stadium though. Security was dreadful on Sunday. How ticketless fans managed to get to the turnstiles I dont know
Fans trying to rush the turnstiles is appalling. But equally appalling to me was the images of a “steward”, presumably trained in crowd management, just wildly kicking the legs away of people running past him. They looked to be vicious kicks and connected with a few.
@LX1 said:
….I appreciate my experience doesnt encompass the whole stadium though. Security was dreadful on Sunday. How ticketless fans managed to get to the turnstiles I dont know
Fans trying to rush the turnstiles is appalling. But equally appalling to me was the images of a “steward”, presumably trained in crowd management, just wildly kicking the legs away of people running past him. They looked to be vicious kicks and connected with a few.
In the mid /late 90s anyone could be a steward if they were free that day and wanted £15/20. Towards the end of that time a bit of training and screening seemed to be coming through and clubs started to see the value of using regular staff who had some link to the club, you'd hope it's much better now...
I think one of the main problems with social media is it is driven by numbers of followers and ‘likes’. It creates a level of competition which means that some people push themselves beyond what most sane people would consider normal or acceptable behaviour in a bid to get that ‘reward’ fix.
The virtual world would be much more civilised if we could manage without knowing how many followers xxxxx has and how many likes yyyyy’s latest post received.
@LX1 said:
….I appreciate my experience doesnt encompass the whole stadium though. Security was dreadful on Sunday. How ticketless fans managed to get to the turnstiles I dont know
Fans trying to rush the turnstiles is appalling. But equally appalling to me was the images of a “steward”, presumably trained in crowd management, just wildly kicking the legs away of people running past him. They looked to be vicious kicks and connected with a few.
In the mid /late 90s anyone could be a steward if they were free that day and wanted £15/20. Towards the end of that time a bit of training and screening seemed to be coming through and clubs started to see the value of using regular staff who had some link to the club, you'd hope it's much better now...
Hopefully the leadership is better now too, though from those scenes it does not appear to be the case. I was part of the first part of your post as a teenager in the late 90s, stewarding at Chelsea and Stevenage, with most of the other stewards looking like they were in their teens or early twenties. The actual security heads would give us a pep talk before the game with a few pointers, disappear for the game (usually watching it from a prime spot, from what I know) and if a really difficult job came up that might result in abuse, they would make sure a poorly-paid teenage steward had to do it! Leading from the back at it's most lurid.
@LX1 said:
….I appreciate my experience doesnt encompass the whole stadium though. Security was dreadful on Sunday. How ticketless fans managed to get to the turnstiles I dont know
Fans trying to rush the turnstiles is appalling. But equally appalling to me was the images of a “steward”, presumably trained in crowd management, just wildly kicking the legs away of people running past him. They looked to be vicious kicks and connected with a few.
In the mid /late 90s anyone could be a steward if they were free that day and wanted £15/20. Towards the end of that time a bit of training and screening seemed to be coming through and clubs started to see the value of using regular staff who had some link to the club, you'd hope it's much better now...
Hopefully the leadership is better now too, though from those scenes it does not appear to be the case. I was part of the first part of your post as a teenager in the late 90s, stewarding at Chelsea and Stevenage, with most of the other stewards looking like they were in their teens or early twenties. The actual security heads would give us a pep talk before the game with a few pointers, disappear for the game (usually watching it from a prime spot, from what I know) and if a really difficult job came up that might result in abuse, they would make sure a poorly-paid teenage steward had to do it! Leading from the back at it's most lurid.
Might have bumped into you at Chelsea at some point. Will never forget my first match stewarding at Reading via a HW agency. Most of my class at college were lead towards the away end , told to watch out for Birmingham "Zulus" who might want to try and cut you in a permanent way. That was about all of the training. Got about £14 for that
@LX1 said:
….I appreciate my experience doesnt encompass the whole stadium though. Security was dreadful on Sunday. How ticketless fans managed to get to the turnstiles I dont know
Fans trying to rush the turnstiles is appalling. But equally appalling to me was the images of a “steward”, presumably trained in crowd management, just wildly kicking the legs away of people running past him. They looked to be vicious kicks and connected with a few.
In the mid /late 90s anyone could be a steward if they were free that day and wanted £15/20. Towards the end of that time a bit of training and screening seemed to be coming through and clubs started to see the value of using regular staff who had some link to the club, you'd hope it's much better now...
Hopefully the leadership is better now too, though from those scenes it does not appear to be the case. I was part of the first part of your post as a teenager in the late 90s, stewarding at Chelsea and Stevenage, with most of the other stewards looking like they were in their teens or early twenties. The actual security heads would give us a pep talk before the game with a few pointers, disappear for the game (usually watching it from a prime spot, from what I know) and if a really difficult job came up that might result in abuse, they would make sure a poorly-paid teenage steward had to do it! Leading from the back at it's most lurid.
Might have bumped into you at Chelsea at some point. Will never forget my first match stewarding at Reading via a HW agency. Most of my class at college were lead towards the away end , told to watch out for Birmingham "Zulus" who might want to try and cut you in a permanent way. That was about all of the training. Got about £14 for that
It might have been the same agency (can't remember) as I did Elm Park once (v Charlton). I only did one season (1996-97) though. Your training sounds about right, too! I remember one security head who had 'war stories' about picking up ripped off ears from the terrace at Upton Park, but he could not hide fast enough at the first sign of crowd trouble.
Comments
Strange how things change...I bet that banterous sausage chucker is a big Morrissey fan now...
I’m more looking forward to seeing which lone centre forward will be picked to play deep in midfield.
Just read most of the wonderful messages of support for Marcus Rashford on Twitter and his statement about that penalty, his general lack of confidence (as a result of a troubled season, or words to that effect) and what was going through his mind as he took the long run up.
I was reading his message to mrs micra until I got to the last bit where he talks about being a 23 year old black man from Withington and Wythenshaw and, if nothing else, he has that. Something happened at that point which took even me - a very emotional person - almost totally by surprise. I burst into tears and couldn’t finish reading Marcus’s message.
But it was great to have seen, by chance, the positive side of social media. I rarely visit Twitter but was looking at @bluntphil’s post about watching the Final with Farzana Chaudry, one of his Three Counties colleagues, and that led to the messages of support for Marcus Rashford.
I have felt really deflated since Sunday night. So tantalisingly close to history and it has been a real downer seeing and reading about the violence and racism in the stadium and online.
Probably best to stay off social media for a few days and bask in how good the other knockout games were. I was privileged to be at Wembley for England v Germany and it was honestly one of the best days of my life and I am a club over country person. Likewise the celebrations vs Denmark were incredible. This squad and management team gave us all some unforgettable memories against the likes of Germany, Ukraine and Denmark when this country really needed some unity and a lift following a really depressing 18 months of COVID. They deserve our praise and gratitude not some of the disgusting behaviour we have seen on the day of the final and since. Personally, I'd like to thank both Gareth Southgate and the team for giving me some amazing moments to cherish.
Final thought from me. Watching football without crowds for the past season has been an often soulless experience and I have struggled with getting motivated to watch games. Even true of some Wycombe championship games, this was a historic season yet felt it was nothing like it should have been in the absence of supporters. The reintroduction of crowds particularly at Wembley but also in Denmark and Hungary showed me why I love this sport so much. Football without fans is nothing and the Euros showed us the path back towards what we are used to. I hope we can continue attending games as normal throughout the 2021/22 season as I've really missed it.
Not sure if it is just me, but I see real hope in these guys.
They are undoubtedly talented footballers and may win us a trophy in years to come. Or maybe they will not. Its just a game.
More importantly they are a group of young men giving us all an example of decency, hope and optimism and the unity it brings in stark contrast to the division fear and hatred deliberately stirred up by Johnson and Patel and Lee Anderson and Natalie Elphick all shamelessly blowing their dog whistles of racism in the hope of grubbing up a few votes from the sort of people who boo anthems, fight with stewards, deface murals and send foul anonymous racist messages on twitter. Then of course our politicians desperately try to row back and jump on the bandwagon when the football team wins a game or two.
Walk tall and be proud England footballers. Your example is one I would far rather follow. I am behind you all the way
POTM Dev
I think I'm going to quit twitter, it's a cesspit of absolute horror and I can see how it could lead to mental health problems. I'll just stick to Facebook which isn't as bad.
Good post Dev. I really like this group of players, very publicly taking a stand for inclusivity, and against racism and homophobia. I wanted them to win on Sunday just for that. Shame about so many of the fans.
My finger is hovering on that quit button too. It is just an exhausting platform that gives the worst of people the opportunity to speak their worst and twisted thoughts. Any attempt to engage with people is met with hate. It is just such an angry place.
Our players gave our country so much over the past month and yes we were all gutted when we didn't win but in what world is your response to go and direct hate at young kids? My heart broke for Saka on Sunday if I could have driven to Wembley and hugged the kid and told him that everything was going to be ok I would have done. And I believe I feel the same as the overwhelming majority of people in this country. But the worst of us have the loudest voice so it seems so we descend into a country-wide spiral of hate, anger, recrimination, accusation, posturing and just general nastiness.
So many people need to turn the temperature down and learn to listen to eachother.
I would quite like to quit Twitter, but unfortunately my job involves it ?
Also, it's home to absolute legends like Tyrone Mings.
Twitter is what you make it right? There's an unfollow button, a mute button, a block button, and my favourite, a turn off RTs button. Enthusiastic use of these every few weeks makes things much better.
Just popping in to see team lineups and updates on when podcasts etc are coming up is plenty for me.
Don't even need an account for that.
Hard to keep away entirely when @bluntphil’s posts and podcasts are drawn to my attention by email. I usually seem to ‘miss out’ on the nasty, angry, hate-fuelled stuff.
No, you're quite right. The mute button especially is a blessing - silence the drones without giving them the satisfaction of a block ?
I know it is a useful tool both for business and communications and I know there are ways as with the Gasroom and FB to limit the sewage you have to put up with but I am not on the Twitter and quite glad of it. I know many prominent people revel in their notoriety etc etc or feel it brings them closer to their audience but if I was a footballer or in showbiz (and wasn't using it to get paid for advertising) I would very publicly remove myself from it and any other social media tool which failed to address issues of abuse.
I follow the great Catlin Moran on twitter. She is a real role model for all and stands for a lot of good things in life when it comes to social justice. I don't always agree with her, but that's great too.
So last week she posted the brilliant video of Mason Mount giving Belle his shirt with a comment along the lines of Not a single mum in Britain can see this without crying. A fair comment, nicely expressed and a great video. This led to a mini pile on of people who were offended by this, Scots, Welsh and Irish of course. Men, women without children, a suggestion this excluded trans people, suggestion it was also homophobic or at least not sensitive to the that community. And in one tweet I gave up on humanity as displayed on Twitter.
I saw more than a few tweets yesterday accusing Southgate of being racist... why, because he made the 2 white players go first in the penalties
and the black lads go last , therefore putting more pressure on them !!
Poor old Caitlin.
As one commentator pointed out, the sad reality for black and brown Britons is that they know, for all the supposed advances and positivity they are still sadly always only 'one penalty kick away' from vicious racial abuse
Was it someone on here who said "the people who used to write on toilet walls now write on Twitter"?
Great post @DevC. Talking about 'violence and racism in the stadium' is a bit sensationalist @DJ. I didn't experience either. My friend had someone tey to push in behind him at the turnstyles and reading horrible reports of people trying to snatch phones for tickets. Awful stuff but not a general riot. Didn't experience any racism in stadium thats all twitter isn't it? I appreciate my experience doesnt encompass the whole stadium though. Security was dreadful on Sunday. How ticketless fans managed to get to the turnstiles I dont know
Bloody hell, I just went to have a look at that as I too enjoy a lot of what Caitlin has to say and it just shows how utterly joyless, narcissistic and judgemental people can be. A sweet, throwaway comment and people have to try and tear it apart and make it all about themselves.
Like others I have to use Twitter as part of work and it really is a sewer of human idiocy and general nastiness.
No shortage of people who hate football talking up it up I'm sure but the event management and policing side of it seems to have been an absolute shambles and there's a lot of clips of fighting , pushing and shoving through cordons, large groups cheering people snorting shit up their noses online, The fact it seems to be known as a soft touch for getting in without a ticket is a new one on me, good job it wasn't a full house. Interesting read below, particularly for me as a former local around the slightly ridiculous number of flats they've wedged in and wether it is still even a suitable venue
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/england-fans-wembley-euro-2020-final-b1882801.html
Twitter and Facebook are both horrendous tbh but examples of tech outstripping legislation and growing in to the kind of monopolies that mean people feel the need to use them. Anyone who thinks Facebook are the good guys or are doing anywhere near what they could be doing hasn't read very widely at all.
Fans trying to rush the turnstiles is appalling. But equally appalling to me was the images of a “steward”, presumably trained in crowd management, just wildly kicking the legs away of people running past him. They looked to be vicious kicks and connected with a few.
In the mid /late 90s anyone could be a steward if they were free that day and wanted £15/20. Towards the end of that time a bit of training and screening seemed to be coming through and clubs started to see the value of using regular staff who had some link to the club, you'd hope it's much better now...
I think one of the main problems with social media is it is driven by numbers of followers and ‘likes’. It creates a level of competition which means that some people push themselves beyond what most sane people would consider normal or acceptable behaviour in a bid to get that ‘reward’ fix.
The virtual world would be much more civilised if we could manage without knowing how many followers xxxxx has and how many likes yyyyy’s latest post received.
Hopefully the leadership is better now too, though from those scenes it does not appear to be the case. I was part of the first part of your post as a teenager in the late 90s, stewarding at Chelsea and Stevenage, with most of the other stewards looking like they were in their teens or early twenties. The actual security heads would give us a pep talk before the game with a few pointers, disappear for the game (usually watching it from a prime spot, from what I know) and if a really difficult job came up that might result in abuse, they would make sure a poorly-paid teenage steward had to do it! Leading from the back at it's most lurid.
Might have bumped into you at Chelsea at some point. Will never forget my first match stewarding at Reading via a HW agency. Most of my class at college were lead towards the away end , told to watch out for Birmingham "Zulus" who might want to try and cut you in a permanent way. That was about all of the training. Got about £14 for that
It might have been the same agency (can't remember) as I did Elm Park once (v Charlton). I only did one season (1996-97) though. Your training sounds about right, too! I remember one security head who had 'war stories' about picking up ripped off ears from the terrace at Upton Park, but he could not hide fast enough at the first sign of crowd trouble.