@Shev said:
Rashford primarily lost us the shootout.
No he didn’t. It took two others to miss in a lottery as well as him.
Hence the word 'primarily'. Each miss heaps more pressure on the next player. There is the scoreboard aspect and the psychological aspect to a shootout. Which is why it is so tough to take second anyway, let alone playing from behind. If Rashford scores, it eases the pressure a little on Sancho, as he is kicking to maintain a lead rather than avoid falling behind.
Just my opinion, though - scoreboard wise of course it was 33.333% each, no argument there.
I feel for Rashford and Sancho in that they did not get to play in the final. Their only memory is getting brought on for penalties and missing them. At least Luke Shaw has the memory of becoming only the third English player to ever score in a major final.
I am sure none of them feel consolation right now, but it is so much worse to have contributed in any way other than the shootout.
@Shev said:
Rashford primarily lost us the shootout.
No he didn’t. It took two others to miss in a lottery as well as him.
Hence the word 'primarily'. Each miss heaps more pressure on the next player. There is the scoreboard aspect and the psychological aspect to a shootout. Which is why it is so tough to take second anyway, let alone playing from behind. If Rashford scores, it eases the pressure a little on Sancho, as he is kicking to maintain a lead rather than avoid falling behind.
Just my opinion, though - scoreboard wise of course it was 33.333% each, no argument there.
Whether you used primarily or not - you are calling him out at the main (primary) reason for us not winning.
Which, quite frankly, is utter horseshit 4 inches to the right and he scores. You can’t lump any thing on any of the players that stood up to take a pen.
This is one of the great England teams. Our conservatism just caught up with us at the worst possible time. Namely, leading 1-0 with 25 minutes to glory but under the cosh, and not proactively changing things to get a foot on the ball and try and wrest the initiative back.
Courage!
I'm Jeff from the terrace.
These guys are paid millions to be heroes.
The real heroes were in the trenches and on the beeches.
Time for a reality check
@Shev said:
Rashford primarily lost us the shootout.
No he didn’t. It took two others to miss in a lottery as well as him.
Hence the word 'primarily'. Each miss heaps more pressure on the next player. There is the scoreboard aspect and the psychological aspect to a shootout. Which is why it is so tough to take second anyway, let alone playing from behind. If Rashford scores, it eases the pressure a little on Sancho, as he is kicking to maintain a lead rather than avoid falling behind.
Just my opinion, though - scoreboard wise of course it was 33.333% each, no argument there.
Whether you used primarily or not - you are calling him out at the main (primary) reason for us not winning.
Which, quite frankly, is utter horseshit 4 inches to the right and he scores. You can’t lump any thing on any of the players that stood up to take a pen.
Okay, if you want to bring in semantics to have a go - primarily also means firstly, and he was the first one to miss.
I applaud all five players for the balls to take a penalty - it takes tremendous guts. I have just always hated elaborate runups. Noticeably the two players who ran up to the ball normally and with intent, put the ball where they wanted to.
Rashford is usually an authoritative penalty taker who often lashes it in high. This time he overelaborated. Just my opinion. They can certainly all hold their heads high. Also, they may have lost us the shootout, but the game was there to win in normal time. They should never have been put in that very difficult spot.
I don't think anyone should be hard on these players (though unfortunately, many social media leaches inevitably will). We are generally kind to our missing penalty takers in major tournaments...and there are a lot of them! They join quite a distinguished list.
The sad thing for me is that this was at Wembley, in front of home fans, much like 96. Those both sting a little more because any future hypothetical success is more likely to take place elsewhere.
I wouldn’t say any of the players that took a pen and missed lost us the shootout.
If I was being hyper and I mean hyper critical I would be questioning those champions league winners on the pitch during the 120 minutes or in the squad that didn’t step up with their experience over a couple of teenagers. But I’d be really scrapping the barrel.
Penalty shootouts are a lottery. We know this. And the Italian keeper is a giant.
He won it more than any of our 3 players losing it and I think it’s out of order calling any of them out by name.
@TheDancingYak - I'll drop this as I was not intending to upset you. I see what you are saying. I was talking in the football context, not trying to throw Rashford under the bus. They all stepped up, and they deserve credit for that. I can't imagine trying to do my job with a stadium full of people analyzing.
I think its high time we stopped 'kissing the arse' of the first manager to get us to a World Cup semi-final since 1990 and the first major final since 1966. His conservative approach has been a disaster and is destroying our young players. I would say I told you so...
@Shev said: @TheDancingYak - I'll drop this as I was not intending to upset you. I see what you are saying. I was talking in the football context, not trying to throw Rashford under the bus. They all stepped up, and they deserve credit for that. I can't imagine trying to do my job with a stadium full of people analyzing.
Easiest way of trying to not throw someone under the bus is by not throwing them under the bus by a naming them as being primarily responsible
@deanoblue said:
Courage!
I'm Jeff from the terrace.
These guys are paid millions to be heroes.
The real heroes were in the trenches and on the beeches.
Time for a reality check
But we are talking in the context of football, i think you're looking for nothingisasimportantasthewarwhatwewon.com
@Shev said: @TheDancingYak - I'll drop this as I was not intending to upset you. I see what you are saying. I was talking in the football context, not trying to throw Rashford under the bus. They all stepped up, and they deserve credit for that. I can't imagine trying to do my job with a stadium full of people analyzing.
Easiest way of trying to not throw someone under the bus is by not throwing them under the bus by a naming them as being primarily responsible
So much for the flag of truce! I did explain about football versus personal. From a footballing sense, I found his miss more damaging, as I feel it placed more pressure on those who came after. However, in seeing some take a footballing comment as a personal attack, I said I would drop it as I did not intend that to throw him under the bus (from a personal aspect).
Agree @bookertease we did exactly what Klinsmann warned against at half time. We sat back. Not that I want to join the Grealish bandwagon but a bit of pace and winning freekicks for the last twenty of normal time would have been welcome and I know they must have said they could take 'em but surely Stones, Sterling, Grealish and Shaw might have been better to be taking a pen before Saka and Sancho.
@Shev said: @TheDancingYak - I'll drop this as I was not intending to upset you. I see what you are saying. I was talking in the football context, not trying to throw Rashford under the bus. They all stepped up, and they deserve credit for that. I can't imagine trying to do my job with a stadium full of people analyzing.
Easiest way of trying to not throw someone under the bus is by not throwing them under the bus by a naming them as being primarily responsible
So much for the flag of truce! I did explain about football versus personal. From a footballing sense, I found his miss more damaging, as I feel it placed more pressure on those who came after. However, in seeing some take a footballing comment as a personal attack, I said I would drop it as I did not intend that to throw him under the bus (from a personal aspect).
I am happy to drop it if you are.
I’ll drop it when you admit you’re out of order for throwing him under the bus even though, apparently, you aren’t looking to throw anyone under the bus
@TheDancingYak - you'll be posting way into the night, then. My comment was on why the shootout was lost. Which did actually happened. You took it a different way, so I explained my intent. If that is beyond your comprehension, feel free to keep coming at me. I have not been aggressive towards you at all, so I have no idea what is bringing this on? Was it something I said on a different thread?
Comments
Best Euros ever.
No he didn’t. It took two others to miss in a lottery as well as him.
Hence the word 'primarily'. Each miss heaps more pressure on the next player. There is the scoreboard aspect and the psychological aspect to a shootout. Which is why it is so tough to take second anyway, let alone playing from behind. If Rashford scores, it eases the pressure a little on Sancho, as he is kicking to maintain a lead rather than avoid falling behind.
Just my opinion, though - scoreboard wise of course it was 33.333% each, no argument there.
He showed the courage to step up when asked
You have enough courage to anonymously come on a message board and make a crap comment.
Well done. Luckily there are so many other good people in our country to support this group of players today and in the future.
When you get where you are going just carry on and on.
I feel for Rashford and Sancho in that they did not get to play in the final. Their only memory is getting brought on for penalties and missing them. At least Luke Shaw has the memory of becoming only the third English player to ever score in a major final.
I am sure none of them feel consolation right now, but it is so much worse to have contributed in any way other than the shootout.
We’ve done much better in this tournament than anyone thought we would. This is an England team easy to support with a bright future.
Whether you used primarily or not - you are calling him out at the main (primary) reason for us not winning.
Which, quite frankly, is utter horseshit 4 inches to the right and he scores. You can’t lump any thing on any of the players that stood up to take a pen.
This is one of the great England teams. Our conservatism just caught up with us at the worst possible time. Namely, leading 1-0 with 25 minutes to glory but under the cosh, and not proactively changing things to get a foot on the ball and try and wrest the initiative back.
Courage!
I'm Jeff from the terrace.
These guys are paid millions to be heroes.
The real heroes were in the trenches and on the beeches.
Time for a reality check
Okay, if you want to bring in semantics to have a go - primarily also means firstly, and he was the first one to miss.
I applaud all five players for the balls to take a penalty - it takes tremendous guts. I have just always hated elaborate runups. Noticeably the two players who ran up to the ball normally and with intent, put the ball where they wanted to.
Rashford is usually an authoritative penalty taker who often lashes it in high. This time he overelaborated. Just my opinion. They can certainly all hold their heads high. Also, they may have lost us the shootout, but the game was there to win in normal time. They should never have been put in that very difficult spot.
I don't think anyone should be hard on these players (though unfortunately, many social media leaches inevitably will). We are generally kind to our missing penalty takers in major tournaments...and there are a lot of them! They join quite a distinguished list.
The sad thing for me is that this was at Wembley, in front of home fans, much like 96. Those both sting a little more because any future hypothetical success is more likely to take place elsewhere.
I wouldn’t say any of the players that took a pen and missed lost us the shootout.
If I was being hyper and I mean hyper critical I would be questioning those champions league winners on the pitch during the 120 minutes or in the squad that didn’t step up with their experience over a couple of teenagers. But I’d be really scrapping the barrel.
Penalty shootouts are a lottery. We know this. And the Italian keeper is a giant.
He won it more than any of our 3 players losing it and I think it’s out of order calling any of them out by name.
We were far too negative in the game itself - only six shots - but I kind of get why he did it.
Oh boy....I've just seen people making posts about the skin colour of the players who missed penalties.......oh no.
Oother than Germany we have had an easy ride. We avoided spain Belgium Holland Portugal
I am proud to be English but believe in reality
@TheDancingYak - I'll drop this as I was not intending to upset you. I see what you are saying. I was talking in the football context, not trying to throw Rashford under the bus. They all stepped up, and they deserve credit for that. I can't imagine trying to do my job with a stadium full of people analyzing.
After you commented on the religion of someone who missed, I think your moral high ground is pretty hilarious, mate.
I don't think race, religion, or any such thing should be brought into it.
I think its high time we stopped 'kissing the arse' of the first manager to get us to a World Cup semi-final since 1990 and the first major final since 1966. His conservative approach has been a disaster and is destroying our young players. I would say I told you so...
Umm....I don't think you really understand what I was doing. That's fine.It's the internet.
Easiest way of trying to not throw someone under the bus is by not throwing them under the bus by a naming them as being primarily responsible
But we are talking in the context of football, i think you're looking for nothingisasimportantasthewarwhatwewon.com
Full credit to the team as they did brilliantly to reach the final and Italy had to use the experience to get there way back into it.
Looking back, I think we probably lost it as we had zero attempts at goal in the 15-20 minutes after we scored despite being all over them.
I’m not exactly sure bringing young, inexperienced players on just to take a penalty was a wise decision. The pressure on them was just ridiculous.
So much for the flag of truce! I did explain about football versus personal. From a footballing sense, I found his miss more damaging, as I feel it placed more pressure on those who came after. However, in seeing some take a footballing comment as a personal attack, I said I would drop it as I did not intend that to throw him under the bus (from a personal aspect).
I am happy to drop it if you are.
.
Agree @bookertease we did exactly what Klinsmann warned against at half time. We sat back. Not that I want to join the Grealish bandwagon but a bit of pace and winning freekicks for the last twenty of normal time would have been welcome and I know they must have said they could take 'em but surely Stones, Sterling, Grealish and Shaw might have been better to be taking a pen before Saka and Sancho.
I’ll drop it when you admit you’re out of order for throwing him under the bus even though, apparently, you aren’t looking to throw anyone under the bus
At least the 3 guys will have a pizza advertisement to look forward to!!
@TheDancingYak - you'll be posting way into the night, then. My comment was on why the shootout was lost. Which did actually happened. You took it a different way, so I explained my intent. If that is beyond your comprehension, feel free to keep coming at me. I have not been aggressive towards you at all, so I have no idea what is bringing this on? Was it something I said on a different thread?
Would it be fair to say Italy were just a bit too streetwise for our young Lions?
I enjoyed the two weeks between the 'we're too negative' rants and the current 'we're too negative' rants. Being England manager is a thankless task.
For clarity - you could have easily made you point of “well of course, missing the first one puts pressure on the others”.
But no, you had to name him and make a comment about his run up like that has anything to do with it.
You have the same issue with Jorginhos?