If what I read on the DCFC forum is right about a deal being done where HMRC get just £7million is shocking. They seem to think this is ok and they should be allowed to stay in the championship. Those of us that run our businesses correctly and pay our taxes in full will feel shocked that football is regarded as a special case.
So pay a tiny percentage of what you owe, get a big new influx of cash from a new owner and don't even have a relegation. I hope that is a lesson for everyone. Dry your eyes the rest of the football family, rejoice that the Gasroom has not killed a big club.
I think a lot of the fans on the Derby forum must be brain dead, a post jut now “ In our 140 year history we have generated £100s Millions of revenue to HMG. We need a bit of slack now...Local MPs, be aware please.”. Really!
@yorkyblue said:
If what I read on the DCFC forum is right about a deal being done where HMRC get just £7million is shocking. They seem to think this is ok and they should be allowed to stay in the championship. Those of us that run our businesses correctly and pay our taxes in full will feel shocked that football is regarded as a special case.
I don’t think people get how this HMRC debt arises. This is not a tax on profits. This is money deducted from people’s pay packets and not passed onto the HMRC. This is stolen money. HMRC accepting a 75% hit is fucking disgraceful in the full knowledge that by doing so they are enabling a BILLIONAIRE to come in IMMEDIATELY and start spunking money away on new players and new player contracts. It is obscene and the EFL are fucking disgrace for letting it happen.
Mike Ashley taking over, investing very little, slowly destroying the infrastructure of the club and buying Dele Ali on a huge contract might be some punishment.
@Wendoverman said:
Mike Ashley taking over, investing very little, slowly destroying the infrastructure of the club and buying Dele Ali on a huge contract might be some punishment.
But he will invest, very heavily initially to reach the promised land. He will then either milk the profits of the Premier League and/or sell at a profit as he did with Newcastle. I am sure most Derby fans would be delighted with that outcome compared with the current situation.
I would take any pronouncement about the amount of tax to be paid with a pinch of salt unless it comes directly from HMRC.
The monies owing relate principally to PAYE & NI & VAT collected by DCFC from employees & fans that they failed to remit to HMRC, given Covid related tax payment holidays etc it is likely that this amount relates to probably the tale end of last season and the summer...
As for allowing Quantama another month to prove funding for the remainder of the season, one has to presume that they had to demonstrate they could pay the payroll due at the end of Jan as well as February's (other wise they will be hit with a 3 point penalty immediately). By my reckoning this means they have to have access to approx £2m in income streams over the next 4 weeks and will then need to have secured a further £3-4m or sold the club by 28/2. I personally think that might be an ask too much...
@yorkyblue said:
If what I read on the DCFC forum is right about a deal being done where HMRC get just £7million is shocking. They seem to think this is ok and they should be allowed to stay in the championship. Those of us that run our businesses correctly and pay our taxes in full will feel shocked that football is regarded as a special case.
I wish the HMRC would have accepted the same percentage of my tax bill I have just paid!!
One point is that with the one month extension, that takes the timeline past the end of the current transfer window. Therefore, should Derby find at the end of Feb that they have not got a new owner on board, then they will not be able to sell their more marketable players such as Lawrence.
Personally - if the rumours of HMRC only getting a part payment of their monies due when Derby exit administration - I'd expect RC, Steve Gibson and the other 69 football club owners to sue the EFL for not applying their own rules.
@Twizz The rule on certain parties being paid 100% comes with a sanction if not met, Derby will simply be given a 15 point deduction next season for not coming out of administration having paid HMRC in full.
@Ed_ said: @Twizz The rule on certain parties being paid 100% comes with a sanction if not met, Derby will simply be given a 15 point deduction next season for not coming out of administration having paid HMRC in full.
Of course that's an eminently sensible rule, though there must be another obscure clause in the Football League's handbook that takes precedence, which is to boot the can as far down the road as possible. The way things have gone over the last few years, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of derogation to the 100% repayment of HMRC debt rule under the threat of liquidating DCFC by the Mel Morris-appointed administrator.
This piece of nonsense from Derby City Council made I larf.
"We cannot underestimate the impact of a successful football club in the city, not just in spreading the Derby brand across a wide stage, but also in the value it adds to our local economy."
Successful? 'Derby brand'? Adding value to the local economy?
Thanks for that, Alan. Would be nice if the BFP could get the name of the local football club correct - we are not 'Wycombe Wanders'. Should I read any further? Nah.
The level of debt referred to - £60M - is in line with previous reports I've seen, so nothing new there. However, they are reporting this ...
Other key stumbling blocks are the legal claims from Middlesbrough and Wycombe who say that Derby's breaching of financial rules cost them dearly last season.
Wycombe were relegated to League One and Boro missed out on the play-offs.
However, in one glimmer of positive light, Sky Sports News has been told that those legal claims could be addressed in front of an independent arbitration panel as soon as next week.
If that independent hearing does not succeed, the matter could be dealt with in a hastily-arranged civil court hearing before next weekend, so that Derby's administrators can then focus on the other issues before they appoint a preferred bidder.
This suggests that things could be coming to a head, regards our claims, fairly quickly.
Can I just say how grateful I am - as I'm sure we all are - to the Couhigs for coming in and being so great, but also to the Trust for keeping us afloat and putting us in a position where that handover was possible. We are blessed.
I haven't trawled through all the comments, but I think this is all bad PR for our club. Sort a deal out and be done with it! I don't want to be anything to do with Derby's demise. We were in that situation not so long ago. Just get on with it and let the football do the talking when we go above them in the league pyramid. It's all so money orientated.
We all know that whilst we deserved a crack at the Championship, the team and club were not ready for it. I know people that work at the club that when we lost to Southend in the playoff final a few years back, it would have been detrimental to the club at the time because of costs associated with policing etc.
Let's count ourselves very fortunate to be where we are ON MERIT. I don't want to be know as the club that cheated promotion (it's what Peterborough and others think) and the club that sent Derby under. We are better than that. It would be great PR now for the club to drop their claims for the love of football. Fans would respect that so much, and we would gain more in respect than we ever will financially, which for the record will be ZILCH. We are getting laughed at.
On a separate note involving Derby...
What does Wayne Rooney mean he "turned down an interview?"
He cant just go for an interview...he is under contract. Say he failed the interview, then what?
@thecatwwfc I don’t think any of us want to see derby disappear. But the facts are simply. £60m in debt. £30m of that plundered from the tax payer. Therefore derby have had a state subsidised team for a few seasons including last year. They actively withheld information that would have seen us benefit to the tune of £6m even £10m. It would have given us back a season that Covid robbed us of. I feel sympathy for derby but more for us.
@thecatwwfc said:
I haven't trawled through all the comments, but I think this is all bad PR for our club. Sort a deal out and be done with it!
That’s literally Rob’s position.
Unfortunately the administrators seem to be the ones slinging the mud and causing the bad PR rather than actually talking to us. Or anyone they owe money too seemingly.
Comments
You've misread the conversation.
If what I read on the DCFC forum is right about a deal being done where HMRC get just £7million is shocking. They seem to think this is ok and they should be allowed to stay in the championship. Those of us that run our businesses correctly and pay our taxes in full will feel shocked that football is regarded as a special case.
So pay a tiny percentage of what you owe, get a big new influx of cash from a new owner and don't even have a relegation. I hope that is a lesson for everyone. Dry your eyes the rest of the football family, rejoice that the Gasroom has not killed a big club.
I think a lot of the fans on the Derby forum must be brain dead, a post jut now “ In our 140 year history we have generated £100s Millions of revenue to HMG. We need a bit of slack now...Local MPs, be aware please.”. Really!
I don’t think people get how this HMRC debt arises. This is not a tax on profits. This is money deducted from people’s pay packets and not passed onto the HMRC. This is stolen money. HMRC accepting a 75% hit is fucking disgraceful in the full knowledge that by doing so they are enabling a BILLIONAIRE to come in IMMEDIATELY and start spunking money away on new players and new player contracts. It is obscene and the EFL are fucking disgrace for letting it happen.
Mike Ashley taking over, investing very little, slowly destroying the infrastructure of the club and buying Dele Ali on a huge contract might be some punishment.
But he will invest, very heavily initially to reach the promised land. He will then either milk the profits of the Premier League and/or sell at a profit as he did with Newcastle. I am sure most Derby fans would be delighted with that outcome compared with the current situation.
I would take any pronouncement about the amount of tax to be paid with a pinch of salt unless it comes directly from HMRC.
The monies owing relate principally to PAYE & NI & VAT collected by DCFC from employees & fans that they failed to remit to HMRC, given Covid related tax payment holidays etc it is likely that this amount relates to probably the tale end of last season and the summer...
As for allowing Quantama another month to prove funding for the remainder of the season, one has to presume that they had to demonstrate they could pay the payroll due at the end of Jan as well as February's (other wise they will be hit with a 3 point penalty immediately). By my reckoning this means they have to have access to approx £2m in income streams over the next 4 weeks and will then need to have secured a further £3-4m or sold the club by 28/2. I personally think that might be an ask too much...
I wish the HMRC would have accepted the same percentage of my tax bill I have just paid!!
One point is that with the one month extension, that takes the timeline past the end of the current transfer window. Therefore, should Derby find at the end of Feb that they have not got a new owner on board, then they will not be able to sell their more marketable players such as Lawrence.
Personally - if the rumours of HMRC only getting a part payment of their monies due when Derby exit administration - I'd expect RC, Steve Gibson and the other 69 football club owners to sue the EFL for not applying their own rules.
HMRC have to be paid 100%.
@Twizz The rule on certain parties being paid 100% comes with a sanction if not met, Derby will simply be given a 15 point deduction next season for not coming out of administration having paid HMRC in full.
Of course that's an eminently sensible rule, though there must be another obscure clause in the Football League's handbook that takes precedence, which is to boot the can as far down the road as possible. The way things have gone over the last few years, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some sort of derogation to the 100% repayment of HMRC debt rule under the threat of liquidating DCFC by the Mel Morris-appointed administrator.
That'll be another few grand on top of the existing debt...
Well when your logo is an angry ram headbutting someone, what do you expect!
An angry ram with the legs of a chicken
An East Midlands Brian Clough Trophy derby that does not end with some handbags is not worthy of the name...
The forest goalie on the windup right at the end was very funny
This piece of nonsense from Derby City Council made I larf.
"We cannot underestimate the impact of a successful football club in the city, not just in spreading the Derby brand across a wide stage, but also in the value it adds to our local economy."
Successful? 'Derby brand'? Adding value to the local economy?
Have Derby paid all their Council Tax to help the local economy though!
Presumably Wycombe council will be suing Derby council for stealing their impact then?
Seems the BFP reporters have gone up to Derby searching for a good headline that they cannot find on twitter this time:
https://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/19882593.bucks-free-press-reporters-travel-derby-speak-fans/
Thanks for that, Alan. Would be nice if the BFP could get the name of the local football club correct - we are not 'Wycombe Wanders'. Should I read any further? Nah.
I think I've seen and heard enough about this now...it's verging on madness!
Not sure how this is new news or if it's just more propaganda to drop claims but people might be getting into the detail a bit more.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11696/12527725/derby-countys-debts-believed-to-be-more-than-60m
The level of debt referred to - £60M - is in line with previous reports I've seen, so nothing new there. However, they are reporting this ...
Other key stumbling blocks are the legal claims from Middlesbrough and Wycombe who say that Derby's breaching of financial rules cost them dearly last season.
Wycombe were relegated to League One and Boro missed out on the play-offs.
However, in one glimmer of positive light, Sky Sports News has been told that those legal claims could be addressed in front of an independent arbitration panel as soon as next week.
If that independent hearing does not succeed, the matter could be dealt with in a hastily-arranged civil court hearing before next weekend, so that Derby's administrators can then focus on the other issues before they appoint a preferred bidder.
This suggests that things could be coming to a head, regards our claims, fairly quickly.
Can I just say how grateful I am - as I'm sure we all are - to the Couhigs for coming in and being so great, but also to the Trust for keeping us afloat and putting us in a position where that handover was possible. We are blessed.
I haven't trawled through all the comments, but I think this is all bad PR for our club. Sort a deal out and be done with it! I don't want to be anything to do with Derby's demise. We were in that situation not so long ago. Just get on with it and let the football do the talking when we go above them in the league pyramid. It's all so money orientated.
We all know that whilst we deserved a crack at the Championship, the team and club were not ready for it. I know people that work at the club that when we lost to Southend in the playoff final a few years back, it would have been detrimental to the club at the time because of costs associated with policing etc.
Let's count ourselves very fortunate to be where we are ON MERIT. I don't want to be know as the club that cheated promotion (it's what Peterborough and others think) and the club that sent Derby under. We are better than that. It would be great PR now for the club to drop their claims for the love of football. Fans would respect that so much, and we would gain more in respect than we ever will financially, which for the record will be ZILCH. We are getting laughed at.
On a separate note involving Derby...
What does Wayne Rooney mean he "turned down an interview?"
He cant just go for an interview...he is under contract. Say he failed the interview, then what?
@thecatwwfc I don’t think any of us want to see derby disappear. But the facts are simply. £60m in debt. £30m of that plundered from the tax payer. Therefore derby have had a state subsidised team for a few seasons including last year. They actively withheld information that would have seen us benefit to the tune of £6m even £10m. It would have given us back a season that Covid robbed us of. I feel sympathy for derby but more for us.
That’s literally Rob’s position.
Unfortunately the administrators seem to be the ones slinging the mud and causing the bad PR rather than actually talking to us. Or anyone they owe money too seemingly.