It appears that ejecting a founder member of the football league is unthinkable, but the EFL is not fit for purpose and should be disbanded. As the football league is run by the EFL, which is made up of representatives of the 72 member clubs, it would appear that Derby (Can't) Count-y fans wish to do away with the competition they can't be ejected from.
They weren't in the Football League at the time, but Accrington FC were a founder member and folded - so there is some precedent of sorts...
You have to wonder why it's taken the EFL so long to issue that statement. It seems to me like that's the clarity that certain parties have been seeking and the administrator has been trying to dodge.
Maybe the EFL are finally beginning to lose patience after all?
@bluenotes said:
Following the EFL statement, the DCFCFans forum is in meltdown calling everyone else corrupt! It's everyone else fault, it's all a huge conspiracy, everyone's trying to kill their club, etc. etc. etc. Nothing about how do we get ourselves out of the mess we created by building up £80m of debt. Oh! and give us back our stadium which has already been sold to reduce the debt to it's current level.
It appears that ejecting a founder member of the football league is unthinkable, but the EFL is not fit for purpose and should be disbanded. As the football league is run by the EFL, which is made up of representatives of the 72 member clubs, it would appear that Derby (Can't) Count-y fans wish to do away with the competition they can't be ejected from.
I’ve been reading their forums for awhile and they have (probably naturally) convinced themselves that they are the victims in this and our and Boros claims are totally without merit , with plenty of armchair legal opinions all round to back this up and of course anything that challenges this is part of the great EFL conspiracy.
If they ask you my professional opinion I think prima facie we have a good case and I have over 30 years experience (Electrical).
@bluenotes said:
Following the EFL statement, the DCFCFans forum is in meltdown calling everyone else corrupt! It's everyone else fault, it's all a huge conspiracy, everyone's trying to kill their club, etc. etc. etc. Nothing about how do we get ourselves out of the mess we created by building up £80m of debt. Oh! and give us back our stadium which has already been sold to reduce the debt to it's current level.
It appears that ejecting a founder member of the football league is unthinkable, but the EFL is not fit for purpose and should be disbanded. As the football league is run by the EFL, which is made up of representatives of the 72 member clubs, it would appear that Derby (Can't) Count-y fans wish to do away with the competition they can't be ejected from.
I’ve been reading their forums for awhile and they have (probably naturally) convinced themselves that they are the victims in this and our and Boros claims are totally without merit , with plenty of armchair legal opinions all round to back this up and of course anything that challenges this is part of the great EFL conspiracy.
If they ask you my professional opinion I think prima facie we have a good case and I have over 30 years experience (Electrical).
I disagree... No other clubs plight has had the same, let's say "mixed", reaction from fellow fans, and that's because of their fans reactions both before and after shit hit the fan for them.
The more I read their forum the more I wonder if there's a bigger scandal at play where someone is lacing the water in Derby with psychedelics, they're completely deluded
@TheDancingYak said:
As I have said elsewhere, if the Derby fans have such a problem with the EFL, it sounds to me like they’re better off out of it anyway.
See how well they get along without them.
Perhaps they can team up with Barcelona and Real Madrid for this breakaway European uber-elite thing.
The running theme right now for Derby fans is that the EFL can't have rules that are not identical , but not contradictory, to the law, which clubs have to adhere to be allowed to play in their league.
EFL rules say all football creditors must be paid 100% to retain membership.
Legally the could pay us a lower amount (that complied with UK insolvency law)... That doesn't give them a right to remain part of a club with agreed rules.
If this does get rushed to a verdict and we won, I'm not sure what I'd want us to do. If a court ruled that a rich man had cheated me out of millions and that if I took the full amount it would mean he'd have to start again with no house or possessions, but retain a very decent income going forward, I wouldn't think twice. A football club is a bit different though....
In reality our claim is likely to be tiny compared to their other issues
I would put a lien on future profits, get yourself on your feet again but when you suddenly have millions to splash on players you pay us off first. That's pretty generous I reckon.
The more I read their forum the more I wonder if there's a bigger scandal at play where someone is lacing the water in Derby with psychedelics, they're completely deluded.
I've been thinking along the same lines, and wondering if I should enquire about the mental state of my family member who currently lives in Derby.
@Ed_ said:
I would put a lien on future profits, get yourself on your feet again but when you suddenly have millions to splash on players you pay us off first. That's pretty generous I reckon.
I like that. Maybe for every £ they spend on transfer fees, we get a % repaid
The PPG argument features strongly in DCFC supporters' deluded ramblings tonight. The genuinely think that's a greater crime than racking up £60m of debt and that Sunderland and Peterborough should sue us. Can't think why they haven't.
Hilarious also to see them calling on 'the other 69 clubs' to ride to their rescue, having spent years gloating about Mel Morris having everyone on strings.
Reading the EFL statement I agree with @Username. The main point is that the EFL believes that Wycombe and Middlesbrough ARE football debtors. The EFL disagrees with Derby in this regard and therefore both clubs will have to be negotiated with and paid out, rather than simply ignored and paid a nominal settlement.
This is heading for a negotiated settlement.
But I’m not sure the HMRC will agree to any deduction to the full amount owned in taxes, though I would expect they will agree ‘time to pay’, rather than see Derby get liquidated and receive nothing. And the other main creditor has security over the stadium so they will get paid in full as well or presumably take the stadium asset from Mel Morris.
@Ed_ said:
I would put a lien on future profits, get yourself on your feet again but when you suddenly have millions to splash on players you pay us off first. That's pretty generous I reckon.
I like that. Maybe for every £ they spend on transfer fees, we get a % repaid
Not sure I would be up for taking a % of outgoing transfers, we could end up in a situation where we and Derby are vying for the same players and they are outbidding us with money that they owe us. No, if they get themselves on their feet again they should pay people off before competing once again in the transfer market.
@Ed_ said:
I would put a lien on future profits, get yourself on your feet again but when you suddenly have millions to splash on players you pay us off first. That's pretty generous I reckon.
I like that. Maybe for every £ they spend on transfer fees, we get a % repaid
Not sure I would be up for taking a % of outgoing transfers, we could end up in a situation where we and Derby are vying for the same players and they are outbidding us with money that they owe us. No, if they get themselves on their feet again they should pay people off before competing once again in the transfer market.
Good point, maybe the percentage could be really high... Like 200%?
All completely hypothetical and unrealistic to actually happen mind
Well, well, well, the EFL really couldn't have made it any clearer that they are "pissed off" with Quantama and expect them to get a move on with resolving the supposedly contentious issues of the MFC & WWFC claims asap.
On a different point HMRC will not write off the debt to them but will allow an agreed repayment schedule (I spent 20 years dealing with the Insolvency Industry out of a 40 year career in Financial Services)
The thing most Derby fans seem unable (or unwilling) to understand is that the EFL is not stopping the administrators from doing anything. The EFL is simply saying that if the administrators act as they currently propose to (defaulting on their debts to HMRC, ignoring WWFC & Boro claims) and carry on as a newly solvent company then the EFL will apply the various sanctions written in the rules that all clubs agree to. Those rules oblige the EFL to throw Derby out of the league or deduct them 15 points next season, depending on how many rules they break in the process of exiting administration.
How can Derby fans think that they have anyone other than Mel Morris to blame? They owe HMRC tonnes of money and they cheated their way to the signing of sought after players, giving them an unfair advantage that remains even now in their 'heroic fight for survival'. Their captain earns more than 3x as much per week as our top earner and their manager reportedly signed on £90k per week. Of course Rooney keeps saying it's heroic because if that were true then it would reflect well on him... Who does he think he's kidding? If you take away the points deduction he's managing a mid-table side to a mid-table finish. Good of him to do that though, he's certainly maturing - he's nearly managed a whole season without getting blackmailed for falling asleep in any strangers' hotel rooms...
I suspect Derby fans think that, because they didn't go up, the years of over-spending and the debt to HMRC doesn't matter. They feel they didn't get any benefit from it because they think they have a divine right to be in the Prem and it's not really cheating if they're still sullying themselves by being in the Championship (heaven forbid League 1!). They don't understand the truth - their current Championship place was retained by years of cheating the financial rules by taking the mick with the amortisation and stadium sale nonsense.
Derby fans think that Boro and Wycombe have their club held to ransom. In fact it's Derby holding their creditors hostage. Derby's prospective buyers all think it's perfectly fine to say to HMRC and other creditors 'forgive 80% of the debt Mel Morris's Derby owe you or you get nothing - take it or leave it, and by the way while not paying you, the club are holding on to playing and management staff that we could have sold for millions'. That's the real stitch up here. Not the claims from WWFC/Boro. All Derby fans want is for the next owner to get the club on the cheap so they can spin the roulette wheel again. They don't care about HMRC (who pay nurses) as long as they get to watch Shrek pocket £90k per week to work his mid-table magic. Rant over.
I wish it weren’t a reflection of just how thick the average football fan is. Sadly I think it probably illustrates that a reasonable proportion of punters are incapable of critical thinking of any kind.
Imagine if you were ever involved in a court case in front of a jury...these utter dimwits could decide your fate.
What do they actually want from the EFL though?, they surely can't expect them to somehow unilaterally decide that clubs can't sue eachother, or decide on the claims as if it were the relevant court which they aren't so would surely be appealed anyway, or maybe decide that HMRC and other creditors don't need to be paid back, or its no longer a footballing offence to default on bills? or maybe that they should be able to sign up new players without proving they are solvent and can pay them or their other players or creditors, or are they after £100m from central funds?
They've also seem decided they haven't cheated at all, or certainly not since Morris gave up control. I mean, just maybe give up on one of the recent cheat codes if you want to show willing. Even Arry Redknapp knew that when you overspend and help bankrupt a club (knowingly or not m'lud) and someone comes in for you (Spurs from Pompey): accept the job, help save them your inflated wages, get them some compo in and take a player or two off them for a few more £. He's not doing them a favour by staying there on £60/90k a week and moaning about or blocking transfers out.
The biggest delusion is that the outstanding claims are both at the same time entirely spurious and yet such a threat that they delay anyone from wanting to takeover. They are just icing on a worthless deal that overvalues non existent assets to protect big Mel.
It really is sad reading the Derby forum, most of the fans still don’t seem to accept that they cheated and have done for several years. They seem to think they are being punished unfairly and keep going on about the integrity of the EFL. If the small amount we are claiming , as they say “will push them under the bus” they have more serious financial problems. Perhaps this could have been handled better by the administrators and the EFL. It is about Integrity, can football continue to allow teams to “cheat” and deny others a fair chance.
Derby fans have convinced themselves that the EFL intend to drive them out of business, despite the fact that the EFL have just extended the proof of funds deadline. If the EFL wanted DCFC gone then they could have called time on 1st of February.
It's all very Trumpian, everyone is against them and everyone else is corrupt with an agenda to put them out of business.
Every time something new may happen, it's dismissed as being a whitewash or fixed against them before it even plays out.... Apparently we control the EFL and therefore any arbitration hearing wouldn't be fair for Derby, so if they were found guilty it wouldn't count anyway!
I hope they can sort this mess out and the club can continue.
But at the same time, their supporters need to recognise there has to be jeopardy and a cut off point at which they cannot be allowed to continue. If this threat cannot be enforced then the rules are meaningless.
Comments
I have a flag idea
Debt avoidance is
Easy
Rooney plus
Blaming Boro and Wycombe
You couldn’t make it up
Oh, wait a sec, I've just seen one who seems to understand!
They weren't in the Football League at the time, but Accrington FC were a founder member and folded - so there is some precedent of sorts...
You have to wonder why it's taken the EFL so long to issue that statement. It seems to me like that's the clarity that certain parties have been seeking and the administrator has been trying to dodge.
Maybe the EFL are finally beginning to lose patience after all?
As I have said elsewhere, if the Derby fans have such a problem with the EFL, it sounds to me like they’re better off out of it anyway.
See how well they get along without them.
I’ve been reading their forums for awhile and they have (probably naturally) convinced themselves that they are the victims in this and our and Boros claims are totally without merit , with plenty of armchair legal opinions all round to back this up and of course anything that challenges this is part of the great EFL conspiracy.
If they ask you my professional opinion I think prima facie we have a good case and I have over 30 years experience (Electrical).
I disagree... No other clubs plight has had the same, let's say "mixed", reaction from fellow fans, and that's because of their fans reactions both before and after shit hit the fan for them.
The more I read their forum the more I wonder if there's a bigger scandal at play where someone is lacing the water in Derby with psychedelics, they're completely deluded
Perhaps they can team up with Barcelona and Real Madrid for this breakaway European uber-elite thing.
The running theme right now for Derby fans is that the EFL can't have rules that are not identical , but not contradictory, to the law, which clubs have to adhere to be allowed to play in their league.
EFL rules say all football creditors must be paid 100% to retain membership.
Legally the could pay us a lower amount (that complied with UK insolvency law)... That doesn't give them a right to remain part of a club with agreed rules.
If this does get rushed to a verdict and we won, I'm not sure what I'd want us to do. If a court ruled that a rich man had cheated me out of millions and that if I took the full amount it would mean he'd have to start again with no house or possessions, but retain a very decent income going forward, I wouldn't think twice. A football club is a bit different though....
In reality our claim is likely to be tiny compared to their other issues
Could the national league accept Derby if their members voted for it?
This could’ve all been avoided if the #SaveDerbyCounty hashtag had started trending in 2015 and contained a comma after the first word.
And yes I know hashtags can’t contain punctuation.
I would put a lien on future profits, get yourself on your feet again but when you suddenly have millions to splash on players you pay us off first. That's pretty generous I reckon.
@Username said:
I've been thinking along the same lines, and wondering if I should enquire about the mental state of my family member who currently lives in Derby.
I like that. Maybe for every £ they spend on transfer fees, we get a % repaid
The PPG argument features strongly in DCFC supporters' deluded ramblings tonight. The genuinely think that's a greater crime than racking up £60m of debt and that Sunderland and Peterborough should sue us. Can't think why they haven't.
Hilarious also to see them calling on 'the other 69 clubs' to ride to their rescue, having spent years gloating about Mel Morris having everyone on strings.
Reading the EFL statement I agree with @Username. The main point is that the EFL believes that Wycombe and Middlesbrough ARE football debtors. The EFL disagrees with Derby in this regard and therefore both clubs will have to be negotiated with and paid out, rather than simply ignored and paid a nominal settlement.
This is heading for a negotiated settlement.
But I’m not sure the HMRC will agree to any deduction to the full amount owned in taxes, though I would expect they will agree ‘time to pay’, rather than see Derby get liquidated and receive nothing. And the other main creditor has security over the stadium so they will get paid in full as well or presumably take the stadium asset from Mel Morris.
Not sure I would be up for taking a % of outgoing transfers, we could end up in a situation where we and Derby are vying for the same players and they are outbidding us with money that they owe us. No, if they get themselves on their feet again they should pay people off before competing once again in the transfer market.
Good point, maybe the percentage could be really high... Like 200%?
All completely hypothetical and unrealistic to actually happen mind
Well, well, well, the EFL really couldn't have made it any clearer that they are "pissed off" with Quantama and expect them to get a move on with resolving the supposedly contentious issues of the MFC & WWFC claims asap.
On a different point HMRC will not write off the debt to them but will allow an agreed repayment schedule (I spent 20 years dealing with the Insolvency Industry out of a 40 year career in Financial Services)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60253222
The thing most Derby fans seem unable (or unwilling) to understand is that the EFL is not stopping the administrators from doing anything. The EFL is simply saying that if the administrators act as they currently propose to (defaulting on their debts to HMRC, ignoring WWFC & Boro claims) and carry on as a newly solvent company then the EFL will apply the various sanctions written in the rules that all clubs agree to. Those rules oblige the EFL to throw Derby out of the league or deduct them 15 points next season, depending on how many rules they break in the process of exiting administration.
How can Derby fans think that they have anyone other than Mel Morris to blame? They owe HMRC tonnes of money and they cheated their way to the signing of sought after players, giving them an unfair advantage that remains even now in their 'heroic fight for survival'. Their captain earns more than 3x as much per week as our top earner and their manager reportedly signed on £90k per week. Of course Rooney keeps saying it's heroic because if that were true then it would reflect well on him... Who does he think he's kidding? If you take away the points deduction he's managing a mid-table side to a mid-table finish. Good of him to do that though, he's certainly maturing - he's nearly managed a whole season without getting blackmailed for falling asleep in any strangers' hotel rooms...
I suspect Derby fans think that, because they didn't go up, the years of over-spending and the debt to HMRC doesn't matter. They feel they didn't get any benefit from it because they think they have a divine right to be in the Prem and it's not really cheating if they're still sullying themselves by being in the Championship (heaven forbid League 1!). They don't understand the truth - their current Championship place was retained by years of cheating the financial rules by taking the mick with the amortisation and stadium sale nonsense.
Derby fans think that Boro and Wycombe have their club held to ransom. In fact it's Derby holding their creditors hostage. Derby's prospective buyers all think it's perfectly fine to say to HMRC and other creditors 'forgive 80% of the debt Mel Morris's Derby owe you or you get nothing - take it or leave it, and by the way while not paying you, the club are holding on to playing and management staff that we could have sold for millions'. That's the real stitch up here. Not the claims from WWFC/Boro. All Derby fans want is for the next owner to get the club on the cheap so they can spin the roulette wheel again. They don't care about HMRC (who pay nurses) as long as they get to watch Shrek pocket £90k per week to work his mid-table magic. Rant over.
Derby forum laughable.
I wish it weren’t a reflection of just how thick the average football fan is. Sadly I think it probably illustrates that a reasonable proportion of punters are incapable of critical thinking of any kind.
Imagine if you were ever involved in a court case in front of a jury...these utter dimwits could decide your fate.
What do they actually want from the EFL though?, they surely can't expect them to somehow unilaterally decide that clubs can't sue eachother, or decide on the claims as if it were the relevant court which they aren't so would surely be appealed anyway, or maybe decide that HMRC and other creditors don't need to be paid back, or its no longer a footballing offence to default on bills? or maybe that they should be able to sign up new players without proving they are solvent and can pay them or their other players or creditors, or are they after £100m from central funds?
They've also seem decided they haven't cheated at all, or certainly not since Morris gave up control. I mean, just maybe give up on one of the recent cheat codes if you want to show willing. Even Arry Redknapp knew that when you overspend and help bankrupt a club (knowingly or not m'lud) and someone comes in for you (Spurs from Pompey): accept the job, help save them your inflated wages, get them some compo in and take a player or two off them for a few more £. He's not doing them a favour by staying there on £60/90k a week and moaning about or blocking transfers out.
The biggest delusion is that the outstanding claims are both at the same time entirely spurious and yet such a threat that they delay anyone from wanting to takeover. They are just icing on a worthless deal that overvalues non existent assets to protect big Mel.
It really is sad reading the Derby forum, most of the fans still don’t seem to accept that they cheated and have done for several years. They seem to think they are being punished unfairly and keep going on about the integrity of the EFL. If the small amount we are claiming , as they say “will push them under the bus” they have more serious financial problems. Perhaps this could have been handled better by the administrators and the EFL. It is about Integrity, can football continue to allow teams to “cheat” and deny others a fair chance.
Derby fans have convinced themselves that the EFL intend to drive them out of business, despite the fact that the EFL have just extended the proof of funds deadline. If the EFL wanted DCFC gone then they could have called time on 1st of February.
1st Feb 2018
It's all very Trumpian, everyone is against them and everyone else is corrupt with an agenda to put them out of business.
Every time something new may happen, it's dismissed as being a whitewash or fixed against them before it even plays out.... Apparently we control the EFL and therefore any arbitration hearing wouldn't be fair for Derby, so if they were found guilty it wouldn't count anyway!
I hope they can sort this mess out and the club can continue.
But at the same time, their supporters need to recognise there has to be jeopardy and a cut off point at which they cannot be allowed to continue. If this threat cannot be enforced then the rules are meaningless.
They're going to build a statue of Rooney now...
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-wayne-rooney-statue-6601095
hahahahahahahahahahahahah
F.A.O. Jimmy Jazz - thought your posting was excellent.
If you want advice on ranting, please feel free to check my earlier posts, any of them.
The Gasroom welcomes Rant.