Morning all, I posted after our win back at Wycombe earlier in the season, with amongst other things, a prediction that once you got a few points on the board you’d start to look competitive. I’ve got next weeks lottery numbers somewhere...
Unfortunately, worth an ‘inside’ view looking at the comments on here about my club. Clearly, a good proportion of the fans there on Saturday hold views that are ultimately racist in nature. The misdirection about Marxism is exactly the sort of horse manure that regularly follows the issues seen all to regularly at the den (along with suggesting it’s a minority, or pointing out the good work done in the community by the club).
What is true however, is that a good proportion of the fans would have clashed with BLM in the tiresomely predictable EDL/BNP/NF rallies following the George floyd murder earlier this year.
In short, the booing was reflective of racist views, inflamed by recent experiences of a reinvigorated and more assertive drive for equality. That some BLM supporters indulged in unfortunate and occasionally violent excess has justified the response in the view of our pond life. Our forums make depressing, if predictable reading this morning.
I’m sick and tired of it, and I want it to stop. Unfortunately, my views are the minority and any attempt to disagree with, or god forbid educate those morons is doomed to fail because they are proud of their actions.
Completely depressed by the whole thing...
Good luck for the season.
“@HCblue notes the FA has distanced itself from BLM and sees taking a knee as being in support of a general principle of equality.”
I write as a political naïf who has great difficulty getting his head round the complexities of eg Marxism and political agendas generally. Trying, as a loyal Gasroomer, to comprehend the intricacies of this seemingly interminable debate has fair done me head in. I chose the quote above as a simple example of the ambiguity and lack of clarity in many of the longer posts which have added to my confusion.
The ambiguity in the phrase I have quoted arises from the uncertainty (at least in my mind) as to whether it is @HCblue or the Football Association that sees taking a knee as being in support of a general principle of equality.
Interesting that @glasshalffull is commentating at the New Den tomorrow evening and what an apt and characteristically amusing comment from @Wendoverman. I’ll be tuning in to see what happens and how @glasshalffull reacts.
Yes, from what you say, I assume @Manboobs paraphrased your original post and would presumably have put ‘he’ before ‘sees’ if he thought it was your attitude rather than that of the FA. Phew!
@chairboyscentral said:
Millwall players are planning on taking the knee again against QPR on Tuesday - another home game.
I was under the impression that they were going to stop based on statements attributed to the club management, though it's good news that they won't give in to the knuckle-draggers.
I wrote this yesterday and decided against posting but as we are still going on this here goes..
I might have more interest in listening to people who oppose Anti racist protests on the basis that BLM (the organisation)'s founders are allegedly pro-marxist if they were in anyway believable, are they taking the time to consider how that affects things in the US, the UK or football, are they concerned the protests are themselves counter productive or that the underlying hopes of the "leaders" would damage society or the economy or football, do they have views on how best to support black players without reference to BLM? do they have anti Marxist economic views to share based on the reality that the UK has always had a mixed economy rather than a free capitalist one, thoughts around the role of the Bank of England, regulators in privatised industries, best provision methods for items from roads to hospitals, how year on year shareholder expectations affect long term company behaviour etc.
Most claiming this on twitter don't seem to be able to get past "All lives matter" *except immigrants or anyone in poverty, and the fact they don't really want to see protests.
Seeing lots of faux support for "Kick it out" now, as if they didn't get the same responses earlier despite not really getting anywhere beyond T-shirts and adverts that the same people were offended by.
And no, I don't see a need to debate the individual economic theories on a football forum but I believe we should respect players who chose to protest against racism in their chosen way and not give too much credence to unnafected people using words they don't understand to justify actions with barely hidden racist connotations.
@chairboyscentral said:
Millwall players are planning on taking the knee again against QPR on Tuesday - another home game.
I was under the impression that they were going to stop based on statements attributed to the club management, though it's good news that they won't give in to the knuckle-draggers.
According to Darren Lewis from the Mirror anyway. I hope they do.
Looks like at least 1 Millwall player (Romeo) has handed in a transfer request.
Although it would be horrendous for their reasonable fans, it would be a strong point if the squad simply downed tools, maybe then real action would be forced.
Superb post there @MillwallMatt. Can't be easy to write that about your own fans.
I went to uni with a Millwall fan. Totally normal guy, not a discriminatory side to him on anything.
However I remember a game at Wycombe's ground when they for some reason thought it'd be a clever idea to mix in some of your fans in what is now our family stand ( I truly can't remember if it was a family stand at the time)
Even some of your middle aged women were incredibly toxic! It was a shocker!
Of course fans anywhere have the right to boo when they like and indeed to organise protests to boo when they like.
That said, only racists would join in an organised protest to boo during 20 seconds when the players ask you to contemplate racism and the effects in has on footballers' lives. Black footballers are well placed to address racism in society - football is focused absolutely on results and players' performance is analysed in the minutest detail and so these days racism cannot completely stop a skillful, talented and hard working black player from succeeding the way that racism can in other areas of society. So when black players we respect tell us their stories we are inclined to listen. Adebayo Akinfenwa, Anton Ferdinand and Mahlon Romeo amongst many other have told us how racism has affected them, stopped them becoming the best players they should have been.
Outside of football there are still many ways in which racism interferes with people with living their lives. For me that the difference between the Covid 19 death rates, which according to the government's Office National Statistics are around are 3 times higher for black males is a good reason to think about the differences in opportunities which anyone has depending on the colour of your skin. The ONS says genetics and existing health conditions cannot explain all of that and the differences are mainly caused by exposure at work and housing conditions. When the season was started in September to all intents and purposes we were designating professional footballers as key workers. For me it is honourable of those key workers to ask us to think about the death rates and lives of other key workers as we sit down to enjoy our football.
And for me explaining the booing by saying that the movement has some activists who are left wing radicals is like saying that you disapprove of Banksy because he was influenced by the work of Picasso. The people who boo are declaring themselves to be racists. It is unequivocally racist to prioritise your feelings about taking the knee over supporting your own team at the start of first football match you have been allowed to see live for nine months. I would ask anyone who sincerely doubts this to put themselves in the boots of a black player on the pitch. If I were a Millwall player in that situation I would feel betrayed by my own fans. If you still have doubts about that, read what Mahlon Romeo had to say after the game, as others have suggested - and then come on here and say that Mahlon Romeo has not been a victim of racism.
So while fans anywhere have the right to boo when they like and indeed to organise protests to boo when they like, equally any club has the right to say those fans are not welcome as supporters. By booing players who take the knee, so-called fans diminish football and hurt the players and club they say they support. I think that it will be easier to identify and ban racist fans than it was to ban identify and ban violent fans.
I am going to tweet @MillwallFC to ask them what they are doing ahead of their game against QPR to make their black players feel comfortable on their own pitch.
I am very proud to support a club that stands behind all victims of discrimination and gives everyone associated a way to be part of the solution. Even incremental improvements are better than throwing your hands in the air and declaring a problem unsolvable.
@Wendoverman said:
Also in my fifties I know lots of people (and family members) of all ages who are racist but dont think they are racist and get angry if you point out their dislike of people of colour is actually racism. And in many cases this hatred pre-dated them Muslins wanting to blow us up...
@Wendoverman said:
Also in my fifties I know lots of people (and family members) of all ages who are racist but dont think they are racist and get angry if you point out their dislike of people of colour is actually racism. And in many cases this hatred pre-dated them Muslins wanting to blow us up...
I guess they must have cloth ears then ?
It could be that they see through the progressive leftwing agenda being imposed upon them, want to rise up against it and just feel.it would be better if people who didnt like it f***ed off back to where they came from. The subtleties of their arguments are sometimes lost on me.
Comments
I've got a lot of time for these two and I know they're Millwall fans so I thought I'd have a look at what they were saying about it
@hcblue Probably not the time or place to debate the intricacies of critical theory and its relationship with Marxism.
We all know that MLK would support players taking the knee and be appalled by the Millwall fans booing.
Morning all, I posted after our win back at Wycombe earlier in the season, with amongst other things, a prediction that once you got a few points on the board you’d start to look competitive. I’ve got next weeks lottery numbers somewhere...
Unfortunately, worth an ‘inside’ view looking at the comments on here about my club. Clearly, a good proportion of the fans there on Saturday hold views that are ultimately racist in nature. The misdirection about Marxism is exactly the sort of horse manure that regularly follows the issues seen all to regularly at the den (along with suggesting it’s a minority, or pointing out the good work done in the community by the club).
What is true however, is that a good proportion of the fans would have clashed with BLM in the tiresomely predictable EDL/BNP/NF rallies following the George floyd murder earlier this year.
In short, the booing was reflective of racist views, inflamed by recent experiences of a reinvigorated and more assertive drive for equality. That some BLM supporters indulged in unfortunate and occasionally violent excess has justified the response in the view of our pond life. Our forums make depressing, if predictable reading this morning.
I’m sick and tired of it, and I want it to stop. Unfortunately, my views are the minority and any attempt to disagree with, or god forbid educate those morons is doomed to fail because they are proud of their actions.
Completely depressed by the whole thing...
Good luck for the season.
@MillwallMatt thanks for posting. Depressing for your club and hopefully will be stamped on.
Here's the Col U chairman with a proper response to the booing at their game: https://www.cu-fc.com/news/2020/december/club-statement/
@Manboobs said:
“@HCblue notes the FA has distanced itself from BLM and sees taking a knee as being in support of a general principle of equality.”
I write as a political naïf who has great difficulty getting his head round the complexities of eg Marxism and political agendas generally. Trying, as a loyal Gasroomer, to comprehend the intricacies of this seemingly interminable debate has fair done me head in. I chose the quote above as a simple example of the ambiguity and lack of clarity in many of the longer posts which have added to my confusion.
The ambiguity in the phrase I have quoted arises from the uncertainty (at least in my mind) as to whether it is @HCblue or the Football Association that sees taking a knee as being in support of a general principle of equality.
Interesting that @glasshalffull is commentating at the New Den tomorrow evening and what an apt and characteristically amusing comment from @Wendoverman. I’ll be tuning in to see what happens and how @glasshalffull reacts.
Stay safe, Alan.
Have just seen @MillwallMatt’s excellent post - a fine example of straightforward, and extremely well expressed clarity of thought.
Considered post @MillwallMatt , definitely make me appreciate our club even more!
How drastically do you think it would affect your attendances if those with "that attitude" are forced out?
Whether they like it or not, it's going to get to a choice of shut up or get out of the club at some point...
It's the FA, @micra, though I've paraphrased their reasoning.
Yes, from what you say, I assume @Manboobs paraphrased your original post and would presumably have put ‘he’ before ‘sees’ if he thought it was your attitude rather than that of the FA. Phew!
We would go under, hence the clubs predicament
Sorry to hear that, maybe naively I still thought it would be a vocal minority, even if it was a very large one
On the television the volume of the booing made it sound virtually unanimous.
I was under the impression that they were going to stop based on statements attributed to the club management, though it's good news that they won't give in to the knuckle-draggers.
I wrote this yesterday and decided against posting but as we are still going on this here goes..
I might have more interest in listening to people who oppose Anti racist protests on the basis that BLM (the organisation)'s founders are allegedly pro-marxist if they were in anyway believable, are they taking the time to consider how that affects things in the US, the UK or football, are they concerned the protests are themselves counter productive or that the underlying hopes of the "leaders" would damage society or the economy or football, do they have views on how best to support black players without reference to BLM? do they have anti Marxist economic views to share based on the reality that the UK has always had a mixed economy rather than a free capitalist one, thoughts around the role of the Bank of England, regulators in privatised industries, best provision methods for items from roads to hospitals, how year on year shareholder expectations affect long term company behaviour etc.
Most claiming this on twitter don't seem to be able to get past "All lives matter" *except immigrants or anyone in poverty, and the fact they don't really want to see protests.
Seeing lots of faux support for "Kick it out" now, as if they didn't get the same responses earlier despite not really getting anywhere beyond T-shirts and adverts that the same people were offended by.
And no, I don't see a need to debate the individual economic theories on a football forum but I believe we should respect players who chose to protest against racism in their chosen way and not give too much credence to unnafected people using words they don't understand to justify actions with barely hidden racist connotations.
"But, but, but QPR and Les Ferdinand said they won't take a knee anymore so it must be time to stop!"
Phew!
According to Darren Lewis from the Mirror anyway. I hope they do.
My “Phew” was a reaction to yet another post (sorry @StrongestTeam) that I had a job to get my head round.
I am in agreement @micra. @MillwallMatt has written an excellent and clear post.
Looks like at least 1 Millwall player (Romeo) has handed in a transfer request.
Although it would be horrendous for their reasonable fans, it would be a strong point if the squad simply downed tools, maybe then real action would be forced.
Superb post there @MillwallMatt. Can't be easy to write that about your own fans.
I went to uni with a Millwall fan. Totally normal guy, not a discriminatory side to him on anything.
However I remember a game at Wycombe's ground when they for some reason thought it'd be a clever idea to mix in some of your fans in what is now our family stand ( I truly can't remember if it was a family stand at the time)
Even some of your middle aged women were incredibly toxic! It was a shocker!
Of course fans anywhere have the right to boo when they like and indeed to organise protests to boo when they like.
That said, only racists would join in an organised protest to boo during 20 seconds when the players ask you to contemplate racism and the effects in has on footballers' lives. Black footballers are well placed to address racism in society - football is focused absolutely on results and players' performance is analysed in the minutest detail and so these days racism cannot completely stop a skillful, talented and hard working black player from succeeding the way that racism can in other areas of society. So when black players we respect tell us their stories we are inclined to listen. Adebayo Akinfenwa, Anton Ferdinand and Mahlon Romeo amongst many other have told us how racism has affected them, stopped them becoming the best players they should have been.
Outside of football there are still many ways in which racism interferes with people with living their lives. For me that the difference between the Covid 19 death rates, which according to the government's Office National Statistics are around are 3 times higher for black males is a good reason to think about the differences in opportunities which anyone has depending on the colour of your skin. The ONS says genetics and existing health conditions cannot explain all of that and the differences are mainly caused by exposure at work and housing conditions. When the season was started in September to all intents and purposes we were designating professional footballers as key workers. For me it is honourable of those key workers to ask us to think about the death rates and lives of other key workers as we sit down to enjoy our football.
And for me explaining the booing by saying that the movement has some activists who are left wing radicals is like saying that you disapprove of Banksy because he was influenced by the work of Picasso. The people who boo are declaring themselves to be racists. It is unequivocally racist to prioritise your feelings about taking the knee over supporting your own team at the start of first football match you have been allowed to see live for nine months. I would ask anyone who sincerely doubts this to put themselves in the boots of a black player on the pitch. If I were a Millwall player in that situation I would feel betrayed by my own fans. If you still have doubts about that, read what Mahlon Romeo had to say after the game, as others have suggested - and then come on here and say that Mahlon Romeo has not been a victim of racism.
So while fans anywhere have the right to boo when they like and indeed to organise protests to boo when they like, equally any club has the right to say those fans are not welcome as supporters. By booing players who take the knee, so-called fans diminish football and hurt the players and club they say they support. I think that it will be easier to identify and ban racist fans than it was to ban identify and ban violent fans.
I am going to tweet @MillwallFC to ask them what they are doing ahead of their game against QPR to make their black players feel comfortable on their own pitch.
I am very proud to support a club that stands behind all victims of discrimination and gives everyone associated a way to be part of the solution. Even incremental improvements are better than throwing your hands in the air and declaring a problem unsolvable.
I guess they must have cloth ears then ?
Post of the year @railwaysteve.
What an excellent, eloquent, and measured statement.
It could be that they see through the progressive leftwing agenda being imposed upon them, want to rise up against it and just feel.it would be better if people who didnt like it f***ed off back to where they came from. The subtleties of their arguments are sometimes lost on me.
It was. Well done Col U.
Seconded.