Regarding an earlier post, Gaz and Dobbo discussed team selection and tactics before each game that Gaz was absent from and that included talking on the day of the game. They are a partnership who think alike.
I see it differently, I think he could be just what we need.
Look at that penalty against Oxford. The goal against Fleetwood.
We tried to play over the top against Brentford with Kashket. He got outmuscled on a couple of occasions. I think Fred’s extra strength compared to Kashket would make the difference.
He’s so direct as well that I’m sure he will cause lots of defences issues.
It cannot be any worse than what we’ve tried already in Bayos abscence.
Be nice to see him up there either just behind Samuel or him leading with Another behind.
We need someone who can either flick it on or hold onto it. Fred is not that player. I know I keep banging this drum, but I'm surprised we haven't seen Samuel and Kashket again after it caused Millwall real problems - would have been a better option against Forest, when we we were keeping it more on the deck and the CBs were too strong in the air for Wheeler anyway.
If we haven't got a fit target man, I'd go with Wheeler wide right as an aerial outlet who can drift slightly inside, Horgan or Fred wide left - wingers who can dribble and be effective drifting in the 10 space - and Samuel and Kashket up top. Samuel will chase and reach balls down the left channel, with Horgan/Fred and Kashket backing him up - and he'll hold onto it long enough to bring them into play - and Kashket gets across the front line picking up scraps and might also get onto a well-timed ball over the top. Would be most effective against teams who aren't well-versed in playing out from the back / slow build-up - the Huddersfield game was crying out for Samuel.
Not to mention the amount of free-kicks Samuel wins - it's worth trying it on with the non-PL refs cause they will give those decisions.
We literally saw it work last month! We created a lot, even with the helping hand (or foot) from the Millwall 'keeper - although he got into that mess partly because we cut off all his short passing options.
I fear that Millwall game will increase in your memory as time goes on.
The main thing I remember from the Millwall game is how we could have conceded another 5-6. Just to Matt Smith!
We need someone who can either flick it on or hold onto it. Fred is not that player.
All about opinions, but I completely disagree with this. I want to see Fred through the middle precisely because the flick-ons are getting us nowhere this season, and Fred is pretty much the only attacker we have who is a) willing to run at a defence and take them on, and b) have a bloody shot. You can have all the flick-ons and the holding-up in the world but it's absolutely useless if nobody actually tries to stick it in the goal.
We need someone who can either flick it on or hold onto it. Fred is not that player.
All about opinions, but I completely disagree with this. I want to see Fred through the middle precisely because the flick-ons are getting us nowhere this season, and Fred is pretty much the only attacker we have who is a) willing to run at a defence and take them on, and b) have a bloody shot. You can have all the flick-ons and the holding-up in the world but it's absolutely useless if nobody actually tries to stick it in the goal.
Absolutely spot on! Fred through the middle for me.
I'm also going to stick my neck out and say that I feel Kashket has been given an extended run in the side over Fred when I'm not sure it's been entirely warranted. Particularly being given the right wing slot last week against Derby.
Fred has only had 7 starts and he seems to be down the pecking order, which doesn't feel right after his performances in the play-offs and play-off final and also how he turned the game against Birmingham.
We need someone who can either flick it on or hold onto it. Fred is not that player.
All about opinions, but I completely disagree with this. I want to see Fred through the middle precisely because the flick-ons are getting us nowhere this season, and Fred is pretty much the only attacker we have who is a) willing to run at a defence and take them on, and b) have a bloody shot. You can have all the flick-ons and the holding-up in the world but it's absolutely useless if nobody actually tries to stick it in the goal.
That would need good service into feet, which we're not going to produce. We need a combative striker up there. Fred won't get the same kind of space to run at defenders centrally either.
Fred loves a tight corner to extricate himself from. He often has two players trying to wrest the ball from him and as often as not he comes away with it. Fred had good shooting boots in his previous spells with us and shooting is something we need to do more often. Gmac showed the way on Saturday. But Gmac is first and foremost a quick and tricky right winger. Please, no repeat of the hotch potch forward collection we saw in the first half against Derby.
What is clear to me is that Ainsworth / Dobbo know they need a Plan B. They've tried Samuel, McCleary, Wheeler, Kashket through the middle this season without Bayo but why not Fred?
I want to see what happens when they try Fred. I disagree that the striker needs to be entirely combative, where we fail miserably is when we lump the balls to Samuel. By all means go long but get the defenders turning.
I also disagree that our midfielders are not capable of playing balls into feet, they very clearly are capable of this it's just we don't tend to do it enough. Bayo's lay off to Kashket against Huddersfield came from a short ball into Bayo's feet.
We need to play balls into the channels in between the centre backs and full backs for Samuel or hopefully one day Fred to chase.
Fred doesn't need huge amounts of space, he created Kashket's goal by running at defenders inside the box, he scored against Fleetwood running directly at defenders through the middle, he won the penalty against Oxford chasing after a ball over the top through the middle. The evidence is there to support he causes havoc running at the centre backs who are less able to deal with that than full backs.
He's scored one and created two through the middle - given the amount of chances he has created when he's hardly played there, there is a potential he might create significantly more chances if he was played there more often.
I don't disagree with your statement when applied to last season. We did do that for Samuel and we regularly mixed up balls into him with his back to goal versus balls over the top/down the channel. It was very successful when mixing it up.
My memory of the few times he's started this season is that we've only really lumped balls directly into him with his back to goal centrally and not put many in the channels. Maybe this is teams sitting deeper and forcing us into this way of playing. It's been predictable.
If we are to use Samuel we must look for more balls into the channels, the more he is pulling the central defender out of the middle the more likely he is to win a free kick whilst both players are on the move and also create space in behind for others.
Fred and Horgan will both benefit from having the ball at their feet with room to make that first man miss. Playing centre forward doesn't suit this as you have your back to goal more often that not.
Finding space in the side and shape (not formation. Thanks @chairboyscentral ) is the dilemma for Ainsworth. If he can unlock this and keep us tight defensively we'll do ok.
Excellently argued, @Commoner. I always assumed Fred was brought back to be the eventual Bayo replacement. He was played centrally first time he was here and looked powerful, aggressive and lethal. He has more potential than any other player in our squad (not on loan). It's time we allowed him to show us what he can do.
@Malone said:
He's definitely the best in the squad by far at getting it and taking people on centrally.
Never quite as good at it outwide as he should be.
Agreed Fred seems to be very good at cutting in and running at defenders. I expect McCleary to be a more traditional ‘get to the byline and cross it in’ winger. But then we need someone in the middle to head it in...and at the moment that has to be Bayo? Uche fit will be a big help. Can Parker score headers?
Comments
Between Knight and Stewart for me so far
I think it's quite easy to underrate Gape a little as Thompson has been in superb form and we've barely seen Gape for ages.
I agree with Eric, I'm now a lot more concerned about our midfield being fit than upfront
Regarding an earlier post, Gaz and Dobbo discussed team selection and tactics before each game that Gaz was absent from and that included talking on the day of the game. They are a partnership who think alike.
I see it differently, I think he could be just what we need.
Look at that penalty against Oxford. The goal against Fleetwood.
We tried to play over the top against Brentford with Kashket. He got outmuscled on a couple of occasions. I think Fred’s extra strength compared to Kashket would make the difference.
He’s so direct as well that I’m sure he will cause lots of defences issues.
It cannot be any worse than what we’ve tried already in Bayos abscence.
Be nice to see him up there either just behind Samuel or him leading with Another behind.
What’s the worse that could happen?
I saw Thompson in waitrose this evening, no limp etc seemed to be moving fine... finger's crossed he's back Wednesday.
Less chance of being confronted outside Waitrose at least!
I have to agree I would like to see Fred through the middle in the absence of Bayo. If only because he's the only one they haven't tried yet isnt he?
We need someone who can either flick it on or hold onto it. Fred is not that player. I know I keep banging this drum, but I'm surprised we haven't seen Samuel and Kashket again after it caused Millwall real problems - would have been a better option against Forest, when we we were keeping it more on the deck and the CBs were too strong in the air for Wheeler anyway.
If we haven't got a fit target man, I'd go with Wheeler wide right as an aerial outlet who can drift slightly inside, Horgan or Fred wide left - wingers who can dribble and be effective drifting in the 10 space - and Samuel and Kashket up top. Samuel will chase and reach balls down the left channel, with Horgan/Fred and Kashket backing him up - and he'll hold onto it long enough to bring them into play - and Kashket gets across the front line picking up scraps and might also get onto a well-timed ball over the top. Would be most effective against teams who aren't well-versed in playing out from the back / slow build-up - the Huddersfield game was crying out for Samuel.
Not to mention the amount of free-kicks Samuel wins - it's worth trying it on with the non-PL refs cause they will give those decisions.
Have to be honest, that Samuel Kashket combo as a 2 is one I'd not want to ever see.
I've no idea if others share your faith in it though.
We literally saw it work last month! We created a lot, even with the helping hand (or foot) from the Millwall 'keeper - although he got into that mess partly because we cut off all his short passing options.
@Malone -totally agree. Not certain many Championship defenders would be quaking in their boots facing that combination.
I fear that Millwall game will increase in your memory as time goes on.
The main thing I remember from the Millwall game is how we could have conceded another 5-6. Just to Matt Smith!
That and the JJ corner!
Yeah, we defended Smith badly, looked a bit afraid of him.
Imagine if JJ gets his corner goal on Wednesday...
All about opinions, but I completely disagree with this. I want to see Fred through the middle precisely because the flick-ons are getting us nowhere this season, and Fred is pretty much the only attacker we have who is a) willing to run at a defence and take them on, and b) have a bloody shot. You can have all the flick-ons and the holding-up in the world but it's absolutely useless if nobody actually tries to stick it in the goal.
Absolutely spot on! Fred through the middle for me.
I'm also going to stick my neck out and say that I feel Kashket has been given an extended run in the side over Fred when I'm not sure it's been entirely warranted. Particularly being given the right wing slot last week against Derby.
Fred has only had 7 starts and he seems to be down the pecking order, which doesn't feel right after his performances in the play-offs and play-off final and also how he turned the game against Birmingham.
That would need good service into feet, which we're not going to produce. We need a combative striker up there. Fred won't get the same kind of space to run at defenders centrally either.
Fred loves a tight corner to extricate himself from. He often has two players trying to wrest the ball from him and as often as not he comes away with it. Fred had good shooting boots in his previous spells with us and shooting is something we need to do more often. Gmac showed the way on Saturday. But Gmac is first and foremost a quick and tricky right winger. Please, no repeat of the hotch potch forward collection we saw in the first half against Derby.
What is clear to me is that Ainsworth / Dobbo know they need a Plan B. They've tried Samuel, McCleary, Wheeler, Kashket through the middle this season without Bayo but why not Fred?
I want to see what happens when they try Fred. I disagree that the striker needs to be entirely combative, where we fail miserably is when we lump the balls to Samuel. By all means go long but get the defenders turning.
I also disagree that our midfielders are not capable of playing balls into feet, they very clearly are capable of this it's just we don't tend to do it enough. Bayo's lay off to Kashket against Huddersfield came from a short ball into Bayo's feet.
We need to play balls into the channels in between the centre backs and full backs for Samuel or hopefully one day Fred to chase.
Fred doesn't need huge amounts of space, he created Kashket's goal by running at defenders inside the box, he scored against Fleetwood running directly at defenders through the middle, he won the penalty against Oxford chasing after a ball over the top through the middle. The evidence is there to support he causes havoc running at the centre backs who are less able to deal with that than full backs.
He's scored one and created two through the middle - given the amount of chances he has created when he's hardly played there, there is a potential he might create significantly more chances if he was played there more often.
This is exactly what we do for Samuel. Fred alongside Samuel may work, but I don't see it.
I don't disagree with your statement when applied to last season. We did do that for Samuel and we regularly mixed up balls into him with his back to goal versus balls over the top/down the channel. It was very successful when mixing it up.
My memory of the few times he's started this season is that we've only really lumped balls directly into him with his back to goal centrally and not put many in the channels. Maybe this is teams sitting deeper and forcing us into this way of playing. It's been predictable.
If we are to use Samuel we must look for more balls into the channels, the more he is pulling the central defender out of the middle the more likely he is to win a free kick whilst both players are on the move and also create space in behind for others.
Fred and Horgan will both benefit from having the ball at their feet with room to make that first man miss. Playing centre forward doesn't suit this as you have your back to goal more often that not.
Finding space in the side and shape (not formation. Thanks @chairboyscentral ) is the dilemma for Ainsworth. If he can unlock this and keep us tight defensively we'll do ok.
Excellently argued, @Commoner. I always assumed Fred was brought back to be the eventual Bayo replacement. He was played centrally first time he was here and looked powerful, aggressive and lethal. He has more potential than any other player in our squad (not on loan). It's time we allowed him to show us what he can do.
He's definitely the best in the squad by far at getting it and taking people on centrally.
Never quite as good at it outwide as he should be.
Agreed Fred seems to be very good at cutting in and running at defenders. I expect McCleary to be a more traditional ‘get to the byline and cross it in’ winger. But then we need someone in the middle to head it in...and at the moment that has to be Bayo? Uche fit will be a big help. Can Parker score headers?
Oh yes (1:40)
Also see here (0.58)
and here (0.33)
and here (5:51)
I enjoyed that. A nice trip down memory lane to the days when Wycombe used to shoot.