@Wendoverman - hopefully Bayo will be ok for Wednesday. Could Uche be fit? Probably unlikely. Parker is obviously not on Ainsworth radar, so I would try either Wheeler or Fred in a central role. Both are more physical, better in the air and can hold the ball up better than Samuel. Clearly Uche was brought in as Bayo’s understudy but unfortunately he’s been injured but we have options better than Samuel.
@davecz said: @Wendoverman - hopefully Bayo will be ok for Wednesday. Could Uche be fit? Probably unlikely. Parker is obviously not on Ainsworth radar, so I would try either Wheeler or Fred in a central role. Both are more physical, better in the air and can hold the ball up better than Samuel. Clearly Uche was brought in as Bayo’s understudy but unfortunately he’s been injured but we have options better than Samuel.
It's just false to say Fred is better at holding the ball up than Samuel.
Samuel holds the ball up longer than any of our current crop of forwards, including Bayo. His distribution is not as good but the free kicks he “earns” are ample compensation. For me, he starts on Wednesday.
Our most creative players are Daryl Horgan and Gareth McLeary. I think we should be looking to get a team out that gets these two on the ball in attacking areas as often as possible
Ideally either side of Bayo or Uche.
I don't think we should underestimate the extent to which Uche's injury has messed up Gaz's plans for the season.
We can make do and mend up front. Of more concern to me is if Gape, Thompson and Adeniran are all out. Very difficult to see us being competitive in that situation
yes. He really overdid it that time. But I still think he's the best bet when we can't play either Bayo or Uche, given that he can hold the ball up and run in behind. The evidence of the play-offs and the early games last season also suggests that he can get the pass and move thing going with other nippy forwards.
@micra said:
Samuel holds the ball up longer than any of our current crop of forwards, including Bayo. His distribution is not as good but the free kicks he “earns” are ample compensation. For me, he starts on Wednesday.
Bayo will start on Wednesday surely? Only 45 minutes at Derby and a three-day gap between the two games.
Surely what Saturday shows us is that it doesn't just matter who's up front, what matters most is utilising a system where we get the ball to our talented wingers and encourage them ping it in to the danger area.
Horgan's ball to Fred for the goal was sublime (was it going in before Bloomfield touched it? It looked that way to me) and McCleary's moment of genius nearly took all three points. Bayo may have come on and helped change the game but that was more down to the switch in system to 442 that played to our strengths, with Fred excellent as the front man.
I'm an optimist and so I think both Thompson and Adeniran will be fit to start on Weds (though I don't imagine we'll see Gape again until the new year). But if we're down to one or even none of that trio it's even more important we switch to 442 and ask our wingers to help out in the centre more. I think we'll see Wheeler and Fred start on the wings, Kashket and Bayo up front, with McCleary and Horgan ready to come on early second half.
One final thought on the system. We switched to 442 when Dobbo was running the show and back to 433 soon after Gareth returned (though he did play 442 against Brentford). I wonder if that reflects a difference in attitudes between them, with Dobbo a bit more attack-minded.
Given that Gaz had an unexpected illness/injury, I very much doubt it. If the stories are to be believed it's plan 1 game at a time & given our constant injury manufacturing belt, they can't even plan much more than 24 hours ahead!
Horgan's ball to Fred for the goal was sublime (was it going in before Bloomfield touched it? It looked that way to me) .........
No. The defender thought he had it covered only for Mr Wycombe to take it off his toe. Blooms ‘gamble’ to follow in on goal demonstrated superb energy, anticipation and tenacity. Just because in was a one foot tap in doesn’t diminish its quality.
Horgan's ball to Fred for the goal was sublime (was it going in before Bloomfield touched it? It looked that way to me) .........
No. The defender thought he had it covered only for Mr Wycombe to take it off his toe. Blooms ‘gamble’ to follow in on goal demonstrated superb energy, anticipation and tenacity. Just because in was a one foot tap in doesn’t diminish its quality.
Did Fred touch the ball back in to the goal area or was it the Derby defender that deflected back towards goal. All this while an international goalie was waving his arms around. It really was a great cross
@chairboyscentral said:
The first game we played 4-4-2 was Millwall. Formations don't really matter anyway, it's a constantly changing thing.
You've blown my mind with this one? xG was one thing but this is confusing? Have formations ever really mattered or has something changed recently?
What I mean is they're a useful guide, and I use them to describe the basic shape, but a team is only ever going to be 'in formation' at kick-off. The system is more important than the formation.
Gape v Thompson is an interesting debate. I would say Curtis is clearly better at harrying and tackling, but often bobbles his first touch and does not pass as well as Gape either. We can't go wrong with either, and if he sticks around, I expect Gape to be captain after the last older general hangs them up or stops playing regularly.
Gape is probably fractionally the better passer, but he misplaces more in compromising positions than Thompson. Curtis is definitely the better all-round player.
I certainly respect that opinion - he is fantastic. There are just a couple of areas of his game that still frustrate me - first touch, very little creative passing, and often turning back towards our goal suddenly when we have forward momentum. Totally nitpicking though - he is not in the side as a 10, and if Gape is out, he is the first midfielder on the team sheet without doubt, and is in an increasingly small group of players with a legitimate shot at Player of the Season - I would currently have him with Knight, Grimmer and Stewart as leading the pack.
Comments
@Wendoverman - hopefully Bayo will be ok for Wednesday. Could Uche be fit? Probably unlikely. Parker is obviously not on Ainsworth radar, so I would try either Wheeler or Fred in a central role. Both are more physical, better in the air and can hold the ball up better than Samuel. Clearly Uche was brought in as Bayo’s understudy but unfortunately he’s been injured but we have options better than Samuel.
Wheeler and Fred are more physical than Alex Samuel? Next you’ll be claiming Kashket could take Bayo in a fight!
@arnos_grove - for someone who is physical, he falls over very easily!!
Fred would be wasted through the middle
3 points ahead of Derby, only two behind Forest and three behind Coventry. I'll take that.
It's just false to say Fred is better at holding the ball up than Samuel.
Yeah, that's frankly bizarre. And I'm one of Fred's biggest fans.
Samuel holds the ball up longer than any of our current crop of forwards, including Bayo. His distribution is not as good but the free kicks he “earns” are ample compensation. For me, he starts on Wednesday.
Our most creative players are Daryl Horgan and Gareth McLeary. I think we should be looking to get a team out that gets these two on the ball in attacking areas as often as possible
Ideally either side of Bayo or Uche.
I don't think we should underestimate the extent to which Uche's injury has messed up Gaz's plans for the season.
We can make do and mend up front. Of more concern to me is if Gape, Thompson and Adeniran are all out. Very difficult to see us being competitive in that situation
As an aside, there wasn't much evidence of Samuel "earning" many free kicks last time out. The ref spent most of the time telling him to get up
yes. He really overdid it that time. But I still think he's the best bet when we can't play either Bayo or Uche, given that he can hold the ball up and run in behind. The evidence of the play-offs and the early games last season also suggests that he can get the pass and move thing going with other nippy forwards.
Yeah in the absence of those two he would have to play
It does tell a story though when Gaz sends Bayo limping onto the field to change the game
Bayo will start on Wednesday surely? Only 45 minutes at Derby and a three-day gap between the two games.
Surely what Saturday shows us is that it doesn't just matter who's up front, what matters most is utilising a system where we get the ball to our talented wingers and encourage them ping it in to the danger area.
Horgan's ball to Fred for the goal was sublime (was it going in before Bloomfield touched it? It looked that way to me) and McCleary's moment of genius nearly took all three points. Bayo may have come on and helped change the game but that was more down to the switch in system to 442 that played to our strengths, with Fred excellent as the front man.
I'm an optimist and so I think both Thompson and Adeniran will be fit to start on Weds (though I don't imagine we'll see Gape again until the new year). But if we're down to one or even none of that trio it's even more important we switch to 442 and ask our wingers to help out in the centre more. I think we'll see Wheeler and Fred start on the wings, Kashket and Bayo up front, with McCleary and Horgan ready to come on early second half.
One final thought on the system. We switched to 442 when Dobbo was running the show and back to 433 soon after Gareth returned (though he did play 442 against Brentford). I wonder if that reflects a difference in attitudes between them, with Dobbo a bit more attack-minded.
The first game we played 4-4-2 was Millwall. Formations don't really matter anyway, it's a constantly changing thing.
You don't think GA and Dobbo would have discussed and agreed the system and players used for the games GA couldn't attend in person?
Given that Gaz had an unexpected illness/injury, I very much doubt it. If the stories are to be believed it's plan 1 game at a time & given our constant injury manufacturing belt, they can't even plan much more than 24 hours ahead!
No. The defender thought he had it covered only for Mr Wycombe to take it off his toe. Blooms ‘gamble’ to follow in on goal demonstrated superb energy, anticipation and tenacity. Just because in was a one foot tap in doesn’t diminish its quality.
You've blown my mind with this one? xG was one thing but this is confusing? Have formations ever really mattered or has something changed recently?
Did Fred touch the ball back in to the goal area or was it the Derby defender that deflected back towards goal. All this while an international goalie was waving his arms around. It really was a great cross
What I mean is they're a useful guide, and I use them to describe the basic shape, but a team is only ever going to be 'in formation' at kick-off. The system is more important than the formation.
GA seemed quite hopeful on Gape in the post match interview on Saturday, suggesting that his shoulder injury wasn't as bad as they had feared.
Fingers crossed on Gape.
Hopefully it's not the dreaded "he's close" for a few months. We need him back!
We do need him back but we need Thompson more.
Gape v Thompson is an interesting debate. I would say Curtis is clearly better at harrying and tackling, but often bobbles his first touch and does not pass as well as Gape either. We can't go wrong with either, and if he sticks around, I expect Gape to be captain after the last older general hangs them up or stops playing regularly.
Interesting. I'd have Curtis ahead on every metric. Some by only a little, but others by a lot.
Gape is probably fractionally the better passer, but he misplaces more in compromising positions than Thompson. Curtis is definitely the better all-round player.
I certainly respect that opinion - he is fantastic. There are just a couple of areas of his game that still frustrate me - first touch, very little creative passing, and often turning back towards our goal suddenly when we have forward momentum. Totally nitpicking though - he is not in the side as a 10, and if Gape is out, he is the first midfielder on the team sheet without doubt, and is in an increasingly small group of players with a legitimate shot at Player of the Season - I would currently have him with Knight, Grimmer and Stewart as leading the pack.
Throw Allsop and Bayo into that mix