The reality of the situation is that we are two games in, with plenty to go. It is clear we have players who are well short of Championship class . Some of the extensions of contracts, I believe have been led by the heart as opposed to the head. We clearly lack pace at the back and this needs to be resolved otherwise I fear a few more heavy defeats. I know we are massively constrained by finances but the midfield Is a glaring area that needs to be addressed.Upfront I think we will be ok. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks to see if the club are going to give Ainsworth some chance of staying up.
None of this is really unexpected, although the extent we weren’t at the races today after the penalty was a little surprising. Could be a confidence thing. A late goal to lose a game followed by an early avoidable penalty to give away can’t help, exaggerated by a quality of opponents we are not really used to week in, week out. That’s why we have our ‘generals’ so I’m confident we’ll learn from it.
A couple of questions:
Have we strengthened the squad from last season (a squad which was good enough to be the best in League 1 for a good period of time)?
I think so.
Have we strengthened the squad enough?
Probably not, but like others think that it will be after the Premier league teams name their squads that we’ll look (well us supporters will get to hear - I’m sure we have a good idea of potential loanees) at the loan market more
We have to realise that it will be difficult to attract high quality players to sign permanently. We all know there are usually relegation clauses that will slash your wages and remember we are strong favourites to go down.
Would you willingly change jobs thinking it’s probable that in 12 months time you might have to take a 30% pay cut (or whatever)?
Young hungry players on loan balanced with experience and team ethic is what, if we want to compete and survive, we need. At the moment we only have 2/3rds of that formula and a few more weeks before we are set up like that.
Firstly, thanks to @ryan_w_kirkby for his perspective and to @thecatwwfc for his redeeming and mature post showing what often happens in the minds of people posting "negative" comments as knee jerk reactions to a loss.
The step up in quality is real and we will take some time to adjust. Keep the faith in Mgmt and the boys we have; as has been noted our new signings look quality and we will take points this season. Let's just hope we get enough to stay in the Championship!
Also we must remember that we only knew we were going to be a championship club on the 13th of July. Our season started on the 5th of September.So we had very little turnaround time to sort out a team for league we had never played in before coupled with a tiny budget.It will take time but hopefully we can play catch up and survive. In Gareth we trust.
It’s obviously going to be a tough season but we will strengthen the side that started yesterday, that’s for certain. It would be great to at least be competitive in the vast majority of the games so we can at least enjoy the ride, but it would be the biggest achievement, possibly in our history, to stay up in this division which is flooded with quality. By many accounts, Blackburn are no more than a potentially mid table side this season (although predictions are often wrong), and they had some seriously good players. Holt by has played international football for Germany!
One thing I am hopeful about though is the effect of fitness on the early games, so things may not be as bleak as we currently feel. We are always a very fit side, but especially yesterday we looked absolutely knackered (and slow). That MAY be to do with the opposition’s quality pulling us around, but it may also be because we’ve only played a handful of games since March. Most of the other Championship clubs (bar Rotherham and Coventry) played a third of a season in June and July so are bound to be much fitter than us at the moment. And fitness does make a huge difference. So maybe in a month, or so, we might be a bit more up to speed. A disadvantage for those teams (and advantage for us) is that pretty much they will have to play from June 2020 to May 2021, almost a year of nearly non stop football, so they are going to get a bit tired when we may be a bit fresher later in the season. Granted, their squad size compared to ours might negate that effect but you never know. Also we may be long relegated by then, but again, you never know!
Two games in, it was always going to be a steep learning curve. The team will improve, individually and in personnel. Let’s be honest, we wouldn’t win many League 1 games with a midfield 2 of Bloomfield and Pattison, so why would we do so away in the Championship. Blooms is good as hassling and harrying as that advanced third midfielder, but doesn’t have the legs to play in a two. And Pattison has some potential, but is very early in a professional career, and didn’t even play much in League 1 last year. Gape, (a fit) Thompson and would be a much better midfield 3, defensively at least.
Loanees to come in I hope. We need to show in the next few games that we can compete as Wycombe need to look like the place to send young talent. Of course we all know about the culture and what the club can do for a loanee and I’d like to think that is well known elsewhere. That said, another game like yesterday next week and I think there’s a risk that our stock as a ‘go to’ destination drops.
Two games in in a higher league and transfer work not yet complete, one of which we should have taken a point and already we dont have the players to compete and all the hard work to make us a good destination for loanees is at risk? Going to be a loooong season.
Hopefully Ainsworth’s stock at improving young players will hold us in good order to get in loanees. Certainly very poor results won’t help. Also his normal go to club for loanees QPR , I can’t see them playing ball.
@davecz said:
Hopefully Ainsworth’s stock at improving young players will hold us in good order to get in loanees. Certainly very poor results won’t help. Also his normal go to club for loanees QPR , I can’t see them playing ball.
This is something I hadn’t considered, that not only are the QPR and Brentford pipelines cut off this season, there are only twenty teams from a higher division to loan from, rather than 44.
I also worry that our failure to do much with Rolando Aarons last year, or for that matter Paul Smyth, won't help the case for us asking to be loaned creative attackers. Neither left the club with their reputations enhanced so we'll need to play heavily on the Eze case study.
However if any Premier League club have a young Kante who needs developing, Ofoborh proves we should be their first choice destination.
@Wendoverman said:
Two games in in a higher league and transfer work not yet complete, one of which we should have taken a point and already we dont have the players to compete and all the hard work to make us a good destination for loanees is at risk? Going to be a loooong season.
How do you know transfer work is not complete outside of loanees? Whilst we have seen a substantial injection of cash into the club and haven’t spent much on players, I’m not sure spending much more is financially prudent. Especially since I’m certain there won’t be matches with high enough crowds to generate income for much, if not all, of this season.
The Couhig’s have spoken of a yo-yo club approach. Right now perhaps the best use of funds is to spend some on infrastructure to improve the match day experience for next season and bank the rest. If we stay up with what playing talent we have plus loanees. Fantastic. If we go down then open the bank and use some but not all of the money to push for promotion and build up the B team and try and stay up with a slightly bigger spend. Repeat if necessary but never overspend.
Totally agree @Manboobs. And as one of the front row FA people who has to sit with his feet in nearly an inch of icy cold water several times a season I hope the long delayed work on the roof might not be delayed much longer.
@Manboobs we can still get players without paying fees apart from loanees you know. There will be freebies out there that may lower their wage demands as the realisation that there maybe no other offers worth considering?
Yesterday was a chastening experience and I don't doubt was as painful for the players as it was for those stuck at home watching it. It's no surprise that our squad is going to find the going very tough, the need to bring in new faces in midfield and defence is even more glaring than before. As we near the deadline and PL and Championship clubs have a better idea of who they want to farm out.
Ainsworth and Dobson have proved their worth time and again in finding hidden gems, ugly ducklings and various misfits who can blossom for us, and they will have to excel themselves to beg, borrow and steal whoever we can that fits the bill and keeps the bean counters happy.
Two games in I do not think our reputation for being a good place for loanees is, as yet, shot or tarnished. A relegation battle can be character forming you know.
@Wendoverman said:
Two games in I do not think our reputation for being a good place for loanees is, as yet, shot or tarnished. A relegation battle can be character forming you know.
I’ll grant you that. That said, yesterday was not a character forming battle that we lost, it was a rout. All being well, Swansea will be an inspiring game, win or lose and our development destination status will remain attractive.
@ReadingMarginalista said:
Yesterday was a chastening experience and I don't doubt was as painful for the players as it was for those stuck at home watching it. It's no surprise that our squad is going to find the going very tough, the need to bring in new faces in midfield and defence is even more glaring than before. As we near the deadline and PL and Championship clubs have a better idea of who they want to farm out.
Ainsworth and Dobson have proved their worth time and again in finding hidden gems, ugly ducklings and various misfits who can blossom for us, and they will have to excel themselves to beg, borrow and steal whoever we can that fits the bill and keeps the bean counters happy.
Agreed. My point is that we need to continue to look like the place to come, win or lose. Good game Saturday needed, result not as important right now as looking like we can compete, not in technical skill as much as in terms of grit, passion and hanging in there until the end and still having a puncher’s chance. We weren’t any of those things yesterday apart from, I would say, team spirit.
That said, our management team is all star quality at building the right ethic and turning it around so optimism is the right mood still.
@davecz said:
Hopefully Ainsworth’s stock at improving young players will hold us in good order to get in loanees. Certainly very poor results won’t help. Also his normal go to club for loanees QPR , I can’t see them playing ball.
This is something I hadn’t considered, that not only are the QPR and Brentford pipelines cut off this season, there are only twenty teams from a higher division to loan from, rather than 44.
I suppose on the plus side, premier league teams are way more likely to want to loan to the championship than lower divisions.
Let's hope so!
Which Premier League clubs do people think we are most likely to turn to now that QPR, Brentford and Bournemouth are arguably less likely to loan players to us?
@micra said:
Which Premier League clubs do people think we are most likely to turn to now that QPR, Brentford and Bournemouth are arguably less likely to loan players to us?
Proximity, Chelsea or Fulham. Is it my imagination or some years ago did we have (or at least seem to have) a bit of a friendship/deal thing going on with Villa ?
Well @davecz has let the cat out of the bag a couple of times @Right_in_the_Middle about the need for midfielders but, so far, has not offered any suggestions about likely sources.
@aloysius said:
I also worry that our failure to do much with Rolando Aarons last year, or for that matter Paul Smyth, won't help the case for us asking to be loaned creative attackers. Neither left the club with their reputations enhanced so we'll need to play heavily on the Eze case study.
However if any Premier League club have a young Kante who needs developing, Ofoborh proves we should be their first choice destination.
I'm not sure anyone could do a great deal for Rolando Aarons. Away from Newcastle on various loans abroad, England and Scotland since 2018, he has played 40 games and scored 4 goals. He is now nearly 25, so it doesn't look like he is going to realise his potential, probably due to a number of reasons.
Smyth had injury problems early on his loan, but again to me he seems to be more show than substance.
Comments
The reality of the situation is that we are two games in, with plenty to go. It is clear we have players who are well short of Championship class . Some of the extensions of contracts, I believe have been led by the heart as opposed to the head. We clearly lack pace at the back and this needs to be resolved otherwise I fear a few more heavy defeats. I know we are massively constrained by finances but the midfield Is a glaring area that needs to be addressed.Upfront I think we will be ok. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks to see if the club are going to give Ainsworth some chance of staying up.
None of this is really unexpected, although the extent we weren’t at the races today after the penalty was a little surprising. Could be a confidence thing. A late goal to lose a game followed by an early avoidable penalty to give away can’t help, exaggerated by a quality of opponents we are not really used to week in, week out. That’s why we have our ‘generals’ so I’m confident we’ll learn from it.
A couple of questions:
Have we strengthened the squad from last season (a squad which was good enough to be the best in League 1 for a good period of time)?
I think so.
Have we strengthened the squad enough?
Probably not, but like others think that it will be after the Premier league teams name their squads that we’ll look (well us supporters will get to hear - I’m sure we have a good idea of potential loanees) at the loan market more
We have to realise that it will be difficult to attract high quality players to sign permanently. We all know there are usually relegation clauses that will slash your wages and remember we are strong favourites to go down.
Would you willingly change jobs thinking it’s probable that in 12 months time you might have to take a 30% pay cut (or whatever)?
Young hungry players on loan balanced with experience and team ethic is what, if we want to compete and survive, we need. At the moment we only have 2/3rds of that formula and a few more weeks before we are set up like that.
The one thing I cant believe today is that Samuel didn't start. I thought it was absolutely nailed on
When waa the last time we lost 5-0?
We took a couple of Huddersfield 6-0s but maybe it was Walsall in the Checkatrade or whatever it was back then?
How many times did we lose 4-0 last season?
Occasionally everything aligns in to a bit of a beating.
Firstly, thanks to @ryan_w_kirkby for his perspective and to @thecatwwfc for his redeeming and mature post showing what often happens in the minds of people posting "negative" comments as knee jerk reactions to a loss.
The step up in quality is real and we will take some time to adjust. Keep the faith in Mgmt and the boys we have; as has been noted our new signings look quality and we will take points this season. Let's just hope we get enough to stay in the Championship!
COYB!
Also we must remember that we only knew we were going to be a championship club on the 13th of July. Our season started on the 5th of September.So we had very little turnaround time to sort out a team for league we had never played in before coupled with a tiny budget.It will take time but hopefully we can play catch up and survive. In Gareth we trust.
It’s obviously going to be a tough season but we will strengthen the side that started yesterday, that’s for certain. It would be great to at least be competitive in the vast majority of the games so we can at least enjoy the ride, but it would be the biggest achievement, possibly in our history, to stay up in this division which is flooded with quality. By many accounts, Blackburn are no more than a potentially mid table side this season (although predictions are often wrong), and they had some seriously good players. Holt by has played international football for Germany!
One thing I am hopeful about though is the effect of fitness on the early games, so things may not be as bleak as we currently feel. We are always a very fit side, but especially yesterday we looked absolutely knackered (and slow). That MAY be to do with the opposition’s quality pulling us around, but it may also be because we’ve only played a handful of games since March. Most of the other Championship clubs (bar Rotherham and Coventry) played a third of a season in June and July so are bound to be much fitter than us at the moment. And fitness does make a huge difference. So maybe in a month, or so, we might be a bit more up to speed. A disadvantage for those teams (and advantage for us) is that pretty much they will have to play from June 2020 to May 2021, almost a year of nearly non stop football, so they are going to get a bit tired when we may be a bit fresher later in the season. Granted, their squad size compared to ours might negate that effect but you never know. Also we may be long relegated by then, but again, you never know!
Two games in, it was always going to be a steep learning curve. The team will improve, individually and in personnel. Let’s be honest, we wouldn’t win many League 1 games with a midfield 2 of Bloomfield and Pattison, so why would we do so away in the Championship. Blooms is good as hassling and harrying as that advanced third midfielder, but doesn’t have the legs to play in a two. And Pattison has some potential, but is very early in a professional career, and didn’t even play much in League 1 last year. Gape, (a fit) Thompson and would be a much better midfield 3, defensively at least.
*and Ofoborh
Loanees to come in I hope. We need to show in the next few games that we can compete as Wycombe need to look like the place to send young talent. Of course we all know about the culture and what the club can do for a loanee and I’d like to think that is well known elsewhere. That said, another game like yesterday next week and I think there’s a risk that our stock as a ‘go to’ destination drops.
Two games in in a higher league and transfer work not yet complete, one of which we should have taken a point and already we dont have the players to compete and all the hard work to make us a good destination for loanees is at risk? Going to be a loooong season.
Hopefully Ainsworth’s stock at improving young players will hold us in good order to get in loanees. Certainly very poor results won’t help. Also his normal go to club for loanees QPR , I can’t see them playing ball.
This is something I hadn’t considered, that not only are the QPR and Brentford pipelines cut off this season, there are only twenty teams from a higher division to loan from, rather than 44.
I also worry that our failure to do much with Rolando Aarons last year, or for that matter Paul Smyth, won't help the case for us asking to be loaned creative attackers. Neither left the club with their reputations enhanced so we'll need to play heavily on the Eze case study.
However if any Premier League club have a young Kante who needs developing, Ofoborh proves we should be their first choice destination.
How do you know transfer work is not complete outside of loanees? Whilst we have seen a substantial injection of cash into the club and haven’t spent much on players, I’m not sure spending much more is financially prudent. Especially since I’m certain there won’t be matches with high enough crowds to generate income for much, if not all, of this season.
The Couhig’s have spoken of a yo-yo club approach. Right now perhaps the best use of funds is to spend some on infrastructure to improve the match day experience for next season and bank the rest. If we stay up with what playing talent we have plus loanees. Fantastic. If we go down then open the bank and use some but not all of the money to push for promotion and build up the B team and try and stay up with a slightly bigger spend. Repeat if necessary but never overspend.
Totally agree @Manboobs. And as one of the front row FA people who has to sit with his feet in nearly an inch of icy cold water several times a season I hope the long delayed work on the roof might not be delayed much longer.
@Manboobs we can still get players without paying fees apart from loanees you know. There will be freebies out there that may lower their wage demands as the realisation that there maybe no other offers worth considering?
Yesterday was a chastening experience and I don't doubt was as painful for the players as it was for those stuck at home watching it. It's no surprise that our squad is going to find the going very tough, the need to bring in new faces in midfield and defence is even more glaring than before. As we near the deadline and PL and Championship clubs have a better idea of who they want to farm out.
Ainsworth and Dobson have proved their worth time and again in finding hidden gems, ugly ducklings and various misfits who can blossom for us, and they will have to excel themselves to beg, borrow and steal whoever we can that fits the bill and keeps the bean counters happy.
@Manboobs I think you missed my point.
Two games in I do not think our reputation for being a good place for loanees is, as yet, shot or tarnished. A relegation battle can be character forming you know.
I’ll grant you that. That said, yesterday was not a character forming battle that we lost, it was a rout. All being well, Swansea will be an inspiring game, win or lose and our development destination status will remain attractive.
Agreed. My point is that we need to continue to look like the place to come, win or lose. Good game Saturday needed, result not as important right now as looking like we can compete, not in technical skill as much as in terms of grit, passion and hanging in there until the end and still having a puncher’s chance. We weren’t any of those things yesterday apart from, I would say, team spirit.
That said, our management team is all star quality at building the right ethic and turning it around so optimism is the right mood still.
@Manboobs we don’t know if it was character forming or not yet.
I suppose on the plus side, premier league teams are way more likely to want to loan to the championship than lower divisions.
Let's hope so!
Which Premier League clubs do people think we are most likely to turn to now that QPR, Brentford and Bournemouth are arguably less likely to loan players to us?
Proximity, Chelsea or Fulham. Is it my imagination or some years ago did we have (or at least seem to have) a bit of a friendship/deal thing going on with Villa ?
Surely if we are looking to loan from big clubs not in the Championship we'd be foolish not to be working Oxford, Peterborough and Sunderland?
I'm hearing on the rumour mill we might need a midfielder but can't reveal my source
Well @davecz has let the cat out of the bag a couple of times @Right_in_the_Middle about the need for midfielders but, so far, has not offered any suggestions about likely sources.
I'm not sure anyone could do a great deal for Rolando Aarons. Away from Newcastle on various loans abroad, England and Scotland since 2018, he has played 40 games and scored 4 goals. He is now nearly 25, so it doesn't look like he is going to realise his potential, probably due to a number of reasons.
Smyth had injury problems early on his loan, but again to me he seems to be more show than substance.