@bookertease said: @thecatwwfc I accept that you find this potential signing underwhelming (and you are perfectly free to express that opinion on here), but I am interested in what type of midfield player you would be enthused by at this stage?
Wasn’t Gape a similarly untested midfield player on loan from a Premier club when we took him?
Some will work out well, others won’t and despite the no doubt extensive research as to whether he will be a good fit, we probably won’t find out until half a dozen matches.
And with due respect to your knowledge/experience of 15 years ago, times have changed and the bigger clubs are more likely to corral quite decent players in the U23s rather than release them for lower league teams to fully develop their potential.
Yes you are correct about Gape. And I also believe that he is not up to Championship standard. That isnt to say he is a good midfielder. You will argue with me either way so pointless me saying anything but you are talking about a player that came to League 2 on loan. League 2 is not the Championship.
I would be enthused, although Im not sure entirely feasible, by someone like Curtis Jones...or I am sure that Chelsea may have a few that are up to it.
I hope that I am wrong about this kid. I really do. Please all remind me when I am proven wrong. I would honestly love nothing more.
Curtis Jones would be taken by a host of premier League clubs I expect
I didn’t realise I was arguing with you @thecatwwfc. I personally think that this loan signing, if it happens, is unproven with potential that may or may not work out and will be interested to see.
My main point was that I’m not sure we are in a financial position, particularly this far out from the transfer window closing, to attract the type of players who would enthuse you.
As such I personally think we have to appreciate who we do get and keep our fingers crossed.
@davecz said:
I don’t remember this level of ‘ spikeyness’ amongst posters when we were near the top of the league last year. Clearly not being able to watch the team, the poor start, ok recruitment and the questioning of club stalwarts has built up lots of testosterone. The forum is for opinions ( apart from @glasshalffull - defer to manager).We all love the club but have opinions. Long may the banter continue.
We all have opinions on players, but the only opinion that matters is that of the manager. He has picked Bloomfield for the vast majority of games since becoming manager and that has coincided with the most successful period in our history. I would therefore suggest that his opinion is more valid than anyone else’s.
@davecz said:
I don’t remember this level of ‘ spikeyness’ amongst posters when we were near the top of the league last year. Clearly not being able to watch the team, the poor start, ok recruitment and the questioning of club stalwarts has built up lots of testosterone. The forum is for opinions ( apart from @glasshalffull - defer to manager).We all love the club but have opinions. Long may the banter continue.
@glasshalffull - clearly the manager’s opinion is more valid but I totally disagree with you that only his opinions matter. All opinions are valid even if they have no impact on the team selected. I sure you have your own opinions on the playing staff but you do seem very reluctant to state them. I wonder why !!
I don’t like publicly criticising players because the manager who sees them in training every day, knows everything about their fitness, form and state of mind, is in a much better position to judge their worthiness of a place in the team than I am.
@glasshalffull - No one can argue against your comments about the manager’s exposure to the players but not to feel comfortable to express an opinion in a forum , is a bit of a cop out. However I respect your views.
@bookertease said:
I didn’t realise I was arguing with you @thecatwwfc. I personally think that this loan signing, if it happens, is unproven with potential that may or may not work out and will be interested to see.
My main point was that I’m not sure we are in a financial position, particularly this far out from the transfer window closing, to attract the type of players who would enthuse you.
As such I personally think we have to appreciate who we do get and keep our fingers crossed.
Fair point and agree to an extent. However, we managed to lure players like Lee Sawyer when many at Chelsea were convinced he would be better than Gerrard. That went to pot since but still....
@davecz said: @glasshalffull - No one can argue against your comments about the manager’s exposure to the players but not to feel comfortable to express an opinion in a forum , is a bit of a cop out. However I respect your views.
As a former director of the club who still has an insight to what goes on behind the scenes, I am in a different position to the majority of posters. I will never abuse that privilege so if that’s a cop out, so be it. But thanks for keeping it polite.
This forum is for opinions isn't it? but not your opinions about my opinions which is like patronising and can't someone say anything without someone else saying something else about what I said? I mean...I might as well be talking football with my mother in law for all the abuse I get on here and though I respect your right to your opinion and I love the banter...just leave me alone. I wanted new players but not these new players who quite frankly are not the players I wanted. I've never heard of them. If they are the sort of players you wanted well good for you but don't take it out on me just because I don't think they are any better than the players we have - who I love like we all do - but I don't think are up to the job ! What's the point of a forum without opinions? Has nobody noticed the season is already two weeks old and we've lost as many games? Wake up and smell the reality! I know I will get shot down for speaking truth to Gasroom. I dont know what is wrong with people on here it never used to be like this all the years we were winning League One and Two. COYB!!
Yes, let's try and sign Curtis Jones, a regular first team player for the best team in the country!
Only last week we were ripped to shreds by Tyrhys Dolan, a young player with just 1 senior league appearance to his name (the first game of the season).
No one knows if the Adeniran signing will be a success, but writing him off / claiming he won't improve us based solely on his lack of first team experience is stupid and ignorant. The fact we haven't gone out and signed 5 PL loanees straight away shows that Gareth and Dobbo are still doing their strict due diligence on any potential signings. For this bloke to be the first one we pull the trigger on shows they at least are confident he has what it takes to improve our team.
This whole thread is about the lack of any midfielders, one comes in and he's already not good enough!
Coming late to this discussion but I want to add some more positives for Blooms. Teams get results and he is a great team player. John McGovern played as a hard working midfielder in all four divisions of the English Leagues, won the First division title twice with different clubs but was never considered good enough to win a single cap for Scotland. You need a variety of players to make a successful team and Blooms has risen to the challenge so many times in recent years. He will surprise us with his contribution this year I am sure.
@Username said:
It's not that uncommon for players to have their first loan spell in the championship, if that's the level Everton wanted him to play at then we've got to be hopeful they're right.
He could have been training with us as well, hopefully Gaz has had a good chance to check him out up close
Dennis Adeniran was training with us today according to the Liverpool Echo piece.
@Wendoverman said:
This forum is for opinions isn't it? but not your opinions about my opinions which is like patronising and can't someone say anything without someone else saying something else about what I said? I mean...I might as well be talking football with my mother in law for all the abuse I get on here and though I respect your right to your opinion and I love the banter...just leave me alone. I wanted new players but not these new players who quite frankly are not the players I wanted. I've never heard of them. If they are the sort of players you wanted well good for you but don't take it out on me just because I don't think they are any better than the players we have - who I love like we all do - but I don't think are up to the job ! What's the point of a forum without opinions? Has nobody noticed the season is already two weeks old and we've lost as many games? Wake up and smell the reality! I know I will get shot down for speaking truth to Gasroom. I dont know what is wrong with people on here it never used to be like this all the years we were winning League One and Two. COYB!!
Now hopefully we can get on with freely signing players to help out, whilst not risking anything by foolishly signing players.
Any new signing is a bonus as far as I'm concerned ! No one is going to come into the club and not try, whether they are from a Premier club without experience or non league
Adeniran looks like an exciting signing and I expect we will all be pleasantly surprised to see the difference in the team tomorrow, I'm hoping he will go straight into the side, which is something we very rarely do at Wycombe.
Bloomfield is at his brilliant best when given a free reign to press the defence of the opposition, he then drags the rest of the team up the pitch. This was done brilliantly in the time that Gape spent on the pitch at Brentford.
Playing square pegs in round holes only ever works for a short while, and at this level it's very short.
When was the last time Bloomfield was regularly asked to play in the two defensive midfield positions? A long time ago, because it is not his strength. Similarly, Pattison has done the defensive job to the best of his ability but he is better further forward in the midfield as evidenced over the Play-Off games. Arguably Wheeler and Horgan were both asked to play slightly different roles to what they normally would against Rotherham and Blackburn to.
Rotherham were really poor and we didn't really miss Gape for the first 60 minutes but as soon as Bloomfield went off they took control of the game.
Blackburn completely exposed our lack of defensive midfielders and our temporary solution to filling the void left by Gape, Thompson and Ofoborh not being available, as these were the three that predominantly played in those roles last season.
GA and Dobbo will find the balance between defence and attack as the season goes on, I felt we were a bit gung ho at Blackburn but perhaps that was due to having players who seek out the ball rather than having those who are more defensive. I expect we will see 4-5-1 being employed more than 4-3-3.
I have a good feeling about tomorrow and fingers crossed we will see our first goal and point/s at this level!
I’m sure the instant gung ho approach straight from the kick off at Ewood Park induced a false sense of confidence that we might be able to compete on even terms with Blackburn. Subsequent events demonstrated that, for most games this season, a more defensive approach will be required and I agree that we may see a 4-5-1 formation being deployed more often than 4-3-3.
A lot of unfair criticism has been levelled at Bloomfield and Pattison (albeit mainly by two or three persistent posters in particular) but, as others have said, it is a little hasty to suggest that they are not up to the required standard when we are still feeling our way in the Championship and bearing in mind that neither of those two players had previously had to play in the positions they occupied at Ewood. In fact, contrary to what someone said about him lacking defensive qualities, I remember Alex Pattison on one occasion heading the ball over the bar a yard or two from the goal line to prevent what I think would have been goal number six.
I agree, a lot of unfair criticism has been levelled at both of them, mainly because due to no fault of their own they were asked to play in roles that they may be asked to play in once or twice a season alongside Gape or Thompson. I think they did reasonably well considering both of them had to play there.
I can see Pattison perhaps growing into that role as he gains experience but to learn his trade in the Championship is going to be tough.
It was similar to England asking Ollie Pope to bat at 4 in his first few tests, one day he will be there permanently but he's better getting experience at 6 and learning his trade.
I'd play 4-5-1 tomorrow. Same back 5 that finished at Blackburn.
McCarthy Adeniran Horgan Pattison Onyedinma
Uche or Samuel up front, probably Samuel...as he will score against his boyhood team in a 1-0 victory for Wycombe!
@commoner, i mentioned it elsewhere so glad someone else picked up on it.
That Bloomfield and Pattison are both best suited to the most advanced of the midfield roles.
To ask them both to team up as the deeper combo at a level neither have played at is an absolutely huge ask. And no surprise it's a struggle.
@Commoner said:
It was similar to England asking Ollie Pope to bat at 4 in his first few tests, one day he will be there permanently but he's better getting experience at 6 and learning his trade.
Hmmm, not sure I can buy into this particular analogy... nice to keep the conversation about England's batting options going though. Let's hope his shoulder isn't too knackered.
I'd play 4-5-1 tomorrow. Same back 5 that finished at Blackburn.
McCarthy Adeniran Horgan Pattison Onyedinma
Uche or Samuel up front, probably Samuel...as he will score against his boyhood team in a 1-0 victory for Wycombe!
Hold your horses, Adeniran hasn't even signed yet! Will he even be eligible to play for us less than 24 hours from now?!
O'Nien and Scowan would be the perfect two midfield signings, though I'm still hopeful for Karacan - looked such a good player in the West Ham friendly. Odds are looking longer by the day though.
I'd love to see Scowen and Gape in the middle together, I think we'd be very competitive then...
@YorkExile - with only a handful of first class matches (I think it was six at the time) Pope was asked to bat at #4 for the first time ever in his 1st class career in a test match, having only ever batted at 6.
Perhaps not the best analogy but asking Pattison to play DCM in the Championship having only played ACM for a handful of games in L1 was a big ask.
I actually think Pattison aquitted himself well over the two games on an individual level, he just didn't seem to have the support he needed. This is where you notice the amount of workload Gape gets through because he is more often than not faced with the situation Pattison found himself in and seems to pop up all over the pitch. Pattison did better than I expected but he fell short of the high standards Gape has set over the last few seasons.
We may well need to play three more defensive minded midfielders plus two wingers for the first 70 minutes of a lot of games this season before trying to unlock the door in the last 20.
@Chris More than that, Scowen hasn't really been playing in League 1. He's not started a game yet and is only getting a look-in off the bench. What a waste.
Comments
Curtis Jones would be taken by a host of premier League clubs I expect
I didn’t realise I was arguing with you @thecatwwfc. I personally think that this loan signing, if it happens, is unproven with potential that may or may not work out and will be interested to see.
My main point was that I’m not sure we are in a financial position, particularly this far out from the transfer window closing, to attract the type of players who would enthuse you.
As such I personally think we have to appreciate who we do get and keep our fingers crossed.
We all have opinions on players, but the only opinion that matters is that of the manager. He has picked Bloomfield for the vast majority of games since becoming manager and that has coincided with the most successful period in our history. I would therefore suggest that his opinion is more valid than anyone else’s.
AINSWORTH OUT!!!!
@glasshalffull - clearly the manager’s opinion is more valid but I totally disagree with you that only his opinions matter. All opinions are valid even if they have no impact on the team selected. I sure you have your own opinions on the playing staff but you do seem very reluctant to state them. I wonder why !!
I don’t like publicly criticising players because the manager who sees them in training every day, knows everything about their fitness, form and state of mind, is in a much better position to judge their worthiness of a place in the team than I am.
@glasshalffull - No one can argue against your comments about the manager’s exposure to the players but not to feel comfortable to express an opinion in a forum , is a bit of a cop out. However I respect your views.
Fair point and agree to an extent. However, we managed to lure players like Lee Sawyer when many at Chelsea were convinced he would be better than Gerrard. That went to pot since but still....
As a former director of the club who still has an insight to what goes on behind the scenes, I am in a different position to the majority of posters. I will never abuse that privilege so if that’s a cop out, so be it. But thanks for keeping it polite.
This forum is for opinions isn't it? but not your opinions about my opinions which is like patronising and can't someone say anything without someone else saying something else about what I said? I mean...I might as well be talking football with my mother in law for all the abuse I get on here and though I respect your right to your opinion and I love the banter...just leave me alone. I wanted new players but not these new players who quite frankly are not the players I wanted. I've never heard of them. If they are the sort of players you wanted well good for you but don't take it out on me just because I don't think they are any better than the players we have - who I love like we all do - but I don't think are up to the job ! What's the point of a forum without opinions? Has nobody noticed the season is already two weeks old and we've lost as many games? Wake up and smell the reality! I know I will get shot down for speaking truth to Gasroom. I dont know what is wrong with people on here it never used to be like this all the years we were winning League One and Two. COYB!!
Yes, let's try and sign Curtis Jones, a regular first team player for the best team in the country!
Only last week we were ripped to shreds by Tyrhys Dolan, a young player with just 1 senior league appearance to his name (the first game of the season).
No one knows if the Adeniran signing will be a success, but writing him off / claiming he won't improve us based solely on his lack of first team experience is stupid and ignorant. The fact we haven't gone out and signed 5 PL loanees straight away shows that Gareth and Dobbo are still doing their strict due diligence on any potential signings. For this bloke to be the first one we pull the trigger on shows they at least are confident he has what it takes to improve our team.
This whole thread is about the lack of any midfielders, one comes in and he's already not good enough!
Coming late to this discussion but I want to add some more positives for Blooms. Teams get results and he is a great team player. John McGovern played as a hard working midfielder in all four divisions of the English Leagues, won the First division title twice with different clubs but was never considered good enough to win a single cap for Scotland. You need a variety of players to make a successful team and Blooms has risen to the challenge so many times in recent years. He will surprise us with his contribution this year I am sure.
Dennis Adeniran was training with us today according to the Liverpool Echo piece.
Brilliant plagiarism @Wendoverman.
Our Goal keeper coach was previously at Everton. I would imagine he has had a fair input on young Dennis's ability.
Now hopefully we can get on with freely signing players to help out, whilst not risking anything by foolishly signing players.
Any new signing is a bonus as far as I'm concerned ! No one is going to come into the club and not try, whether they are from a Premier club without experience or non league
Would anyone like me to rename this thread ‘Only one new midfielder and he’s not good enough’?
@Forest_Blue Exactly. Like what I said, but more succinctly put: and McGovern is a great example.
Adeniran looks like an exciting signing and I expect we will all be pleasantly surprised to see the difference in the team tomorrow, I'm hoping he will go straight into the side, which is something we very rarely do at Wycombe.
Bloomfield is at his brilliant best when given a free reign to press the defence of the opposition, he then drags the rest of the team up the pitch. This was done brilliantly in the time that Gape spent on the pitch at Brentford.
Playing square pegs in round holes only ever works for a short while, and at this level it's very short.
When was the last time Bloomfield was regularly asked to play in the two defensive midfield positions? A long time ago, because it is not his strength. Similarly, Pattison has done the defensive job to the best of his ability but he is better further forward in the midfield as evidenced over the Play-Off games. Arguably Wheeler and Horgan were both asked to play slightly different roles to what they normally would against Rotherham and Blackburn to.
Rotherham were really poor and we didn't really miss Gape for the first 60 minutes but as soon as Bloomfield went off they took control of the game.
Blackburn completely exposed our lack of defensive midfielders and our temporary solution to filling the void left by Gape, Thompson and Ofoborh not being available, as these were the three that predominantly played in those roles last season.
GA and Dobbo will find the balance between defence and attack as the season goes on, I felt we were a bit gung ho at Blackburn but perhaps that was due to having players who seek out the ball rather than having those who are more defensive. I expect we will see 4-5-1 being employed more than 4-3-3.
I have a good feeling about tomorrow and fingers crossed we will see our first goal and point/s at this level!
I’m sure the instant gung ho approach straight from the kick off at Ewood Park induced a false sense of confidence that we might be able to compete on even terms with Blackburn. Subsequent events demonstrated that, for most games this season, a more defensive approach will be required and I agree that we may see a 4-5-1 formation being deployed more often than 4-3-3.
A lot of unfair criticism has been levelled at Bloomfield and Pattison (albeit mainly by two or three persistent posters in particular) but, as others have said, it is a little hasty to suggest that they are not up to the required standard when we are still feeling our way in the Championship and bearing in mind that neither of those two players had previously had to play in the positions they occupied at Ewood. In fact, contrary to what someone said about him lacking defensive qualities, I remember Alex Pattison on one occasion heading the ball over the bar a yard or two from the goal line to prevent what I think would have been goal number six.
I agree, a lot of unfair criticism has been levelled at both of them, mainly because due to no fault of their own they were asked to play in roles that they may be asked to play in once or twice a season alongside Gape or Thompson. I think they did reasonably well considering both of them had to play there.
I can see Pattison perhaps growing into that role as he gains experience but to learn his trade in the Championship is going to be tough.
It was similar to England asking Ollie Pope to bat at 4 in his first few tests, one day he will be there permanently but he's better getting experience at 6 and learning his trade.
I'd play 4-5-1 tomorrow. Same back 5 that finished at Blackburn.
McCarthy Adeniran Horgan Pattison Onyedinma
Uche or Samuel up front, probably Samuel...as he will score against his boyhood team in a 1-0 victory for Wycombe!
I would like to point out that I pointed this out some time ago but as usual no-one was listening and I probably got shouted down for it.
@commoner, i mentioned it elsewhere so glad someone else picked up on it.
That Bloomfield and Pattison are both best suited to the most advanced of the midfield roles.
To ask them both to team up as the deeper combo at a level neither have played at is an absolutely huge ask. And no surprise it's a struggle.
Hmmm, not sure I can buy into this particular analogy... nice to keep the conversation about England's batting options going though. Let's hope his shoulder isn't too knackered.
Hold your horses, Adeniran hasn't even signed yet! Will he even be eligible to play for us less than 24 hours from now?!
Funny to think that Josh Scowen, one of Wycombe’s best midfielders, is playing in the league below.
With Luke O'Nein at right back probably
O'Nien and Scowan would be the perfect two midfield signings, though I'm still hopeful for Karacan - looked such a good player in the West Ham friendly. Odds are looking longer by the day though.
I'd love to see Scowen and Gape in the middle together, I think we'd be very competitive then...
@YorkExile - with only a handful of first class matches (I think it was six at the time) Pope was asked to bat at #4 for the first time ever in his 1st class career in a test match, having only ever batted at 6.
Perhaps not the best analogy but asking Pattison to play DCM in the Championship having only played ACM for a handful of games in L1 was a big ask.
I actually think Pattison aquitted himself well over the two games on an individual level, he just didn't seem to have the support he needed. This is where you notice the amount of workload Gape gets through because he is more often than not faced with the situation Pattison found himself in and seems to pop up all over the pitch. Pattison did better than I expected but he fell short of the high standards Gape has set over the last few seasons.
We may well need to play three more defensive minded midfielders plus two wingers for the first 70 minutes of a lot of games this season before trying to unlock the door in the last 20.
@Chris More than that, Scowen hasn't really been playing in League 1. He's not started a game yet and is only getting a look-in off the bench. What a waste.