@bigred87 said:
Ainsworth almost everytime seems to get the best out of players, i think the baby beast is going to be a tremendous addition who will learn so much from bayo..... looking forward to seeing them line up together ?
Can we think twice before labeling him the 'baby beast'? It's a term loaded with racial connotations. Bayo may well have embraced it long before he came our way but it doesn't mean that anyone else will or should.
@bigred87 said:
Ainsworth almost everytime seems to get the best out of players, i think the baby beast is going to be a tremendous addition who will learn so much from bayo..... looking forward to seeing them line up together ?
Can we think twice before labeling him the 'baby beast'? It's a term loaded with racial connotations. Bayo may well have embraced it long before he came our way but it doesn't mean that anyone else will or should.
‘Beast-mode,’ is a fairly well known, positive, non racial epithet in the states.
@bigred87 said:
Ainsworth almost everytime seems to get the best out of players, i think the baby beast is going to be a tremendous addition who will learn so much from bayo..... looking forward to seeing them line up together ?
Can we think twice before labeling him the 'baby beast'? It's a term loaded with racial connotations. Bayo may well have embraced it long before he came our way but it doesn't mean that anyone else will or should.
Also calling a grown man "baby" is a real dehumanising patronising form of terminology, that reduces his human rights.
@bigred87 said:
Ainsworth almost everytime seems to get the best out of players, i think the baby beast is going to be a tremendous addition who will learn so much from bayo..... looking forward to seeing them line up together ?
Can we think twice before labeling him the 'baby beast'? It's a term loaded with racial connotations. Bayo may well have embraced it long before he came our way but it doesn't mean that anyone else will or should.
It's just isnt though is it?♂️?♂️ it's referring to his build and playing style nothing remotely racial, im 6.4 and 17 stone i refer to myself as a baby beast. Im a father of two mix raced children of African decent so leave off with pc crap. Shall i refer to him as 'they' so i don't offend anyone of any race of any sex anywhere..... pathetic post
@bigred87 said:
Ainsworth almost everytime seems to get the best out of players, i think the baby beast is going to be a tremendous addition who will learn so much from bayo..... looking forward to seeing them line up together ?
Can we think twice before labeling him the 'baby beast'? It's a term loaded with racial connotations. Bayo may well have embraced it long before he came our way but it doesn't mean that anyone else will or should.
Also calling a grown man "baby" is a real dehumanising patronising form of terminology, that reduces his human rights.
@bigred87 said:
Ainsworth almost everytime seems to get the best out of players, i think the baby beast is going to be a tremendous addition who will learn so much from bayo..... looking forward to seeing them line up together ?
Can we think twice before labeling him the 'baby beast'? It's a term loaded with racial connotations. Bayo may well have embraced it long before he came our way but it doesn't mean that anyone else will or should.
It's just isnt though is it?♂️?♂️ it's referring to his build and playing style nothing remotely racial, im 6.4 and 17 stone i refer to myself as a baby beast. Im a father of two mix raced children of African decent so leave off with pc crap. Shall i refer to him as 'they' so i don't offend anyone of any race of any sex anywhere..... pathetic post
Hang on chief, if you're a baby beast, at 6ft 4 and 17 stone, who on earth is a fully grown beast
Even our own guy is 16 stone isn't he, and much shorter!
Beast is one of the words that commentators were told to be wary of using about black players, despite me pointing out that it’s Bayo’s self appointed nickname. So was ‘pacey’ which’s just proves how over sensitive this issue has become-and black pundits like Don Goodman and Danny Gabbidon are in agreement.
@bigred87 said:
Ainsworth almost everytime seems to get the best out of players, i think the baby beast is going to be a tremendous addition who will learn so much from bayo..... looking forward to seeing them line up together ?
Can we think twice before labeling him the 'baby beast'? It's a term loaded with racial connotations. Bayo may well have embraced it long before he came our way but it doesn't mean that anyone else will or should.
I agree. It's a good point, and just because people willfully refuse to understand it doesn't mean it's wrong
@glasshalffull said:
Beast is one of the words that commentators were told to be wary of using about black players, despite me pointing out that it’s Bayo’s self appointed nickname. So was ‘pacey’ which’s just proves how over sensitive this issue has become-and black pundits like Don Goodman and Danny Gabbidon are in agreement.
I think "over-sensitive" is probably a bad choice of words in an otherwise welcome post. Anyone with even a tiny bit of knowledge of black history knows how racially charged that word is. If they don't, then it's ten minutes reading for some self improvement.
@Malone said:
Hang on chief, if you're a baby beast, at 6ft 4 and 17 stone, who on earth is a fully grown beast
Even our own guy is 16 stone isn't he, and much shorter!
I suspect calling someone ‘chief’ is also on the banned list!
Chief on the urban dictionary is a term of abuse apparently...as shown in such shows as the channel 4 comedy phoneshop (am guessing you don't watch that!)
No racist connotation - more a scumbag.
But obvs mine was meant affectionately - chief = the boss.
But if we're stretching definitions, then i guess you're right!
@glasshalffull said:
Beast is one of the words that commentators were told to be wary of using about black players, despite me pointing out that it’s Bayo’s self appointed nickname. So was ‘pacey’ which’s just proves how over sensitive this issue has become-and black pundits like Don Goodman and Danny Gabbidon are in agreement.
I think "over-sensitive" is probably a bad choice of words in an otherwise welcome post. Anyone with even a tiny bit of knowledge of black history knows how racially charged that word is. If they don't, then it's ten minutes reading for some self improvement.
I was referring to the word ‘pacey’ which by no stretch of imagination could possibly be construed as racist, but thanks for the advice.
@glasshalffull said:
Beast is one of the words that commentators were told to be wary of using about black players, despite me pointing out that it’s Bayo’s self appointed nickname. So was ‘pacey’ which’s just proves how over sensitive this issue has become-and black pundits like Don Goodman and Danny Gabbidon are in agreement.
I think "over-sensitive" is probably a bad choice of words in an otherwise welcome post. Anyone with even a tiny bit of knowledge of black history knows how racially charged that word is. If they don't, then it's ten minutes reading for some self improvement.
I was referring to the word ‘pacey’ which by no stretch of imagination could possibly be construed as racist, but thanks for the advice.
There has often been a tendency to label black players as "lazy" more than their white counterparts, or to highlight physical aspects of a black player's game more than with versus white players.
But if you can't say a very fast player is very fast it's a sad world.
I wonder how anyone would commentate on Traore for example. He's near sprinter pace, and his strength and pace are literally most of his game!
I agree. It's a good point, and just because people willfully refuse to understand it doesn't mean it's wrong
It’s not a matter of people ‘wilfully’ refusing to understand it, it’s a case of implying a racial slur where none exists.
It doesn't stop it being a racial slur, even if you don't intend it as such. Which is exactly why you'd be fired if you referred to a black player as a beast in a commentary.
@glasshalffull said:
Don Goodman summed it up perfectly when he said: ‘If someone had called me pacey when I was playing I’d have been delighted!’.
Yes for certain.
It's when a player is defined as just being pacy when they have a lot more to offer, based on stereotypes.
Although some players genuinely are just pace!
Anyway, stop hijacking it @glasshalffull , or we'll call you glasshalfdev
So it was fine labeling Jon Parkin as a beast, but its not fine to use the same label for a similar type of player in ikpeazu purely because he is black. We seem to be gradually getting away from the premise that everyone is equal.
@eric_plant said:
To change the subject, who has been your favourite co-commentator over the years?
I still remember fondly your incredulity in the 94 World Cup when Kevin Keegan tried to defend Leonardo when he elbowed Tab Ramos flush in the face
Good question. I know it sounds like sitting on the fence, but I’ve enjoyed working with all of them from Denis Law in the 70’s to Gary Neville in recent years. I have become good friends with Don Goodman and Davie Provan both of whom I think are underrated. Alan Smith reads the game well, but if you asked me who has been the best I’d have to say (on a purely professional basis!) Andy Gray..
@eric_plant said:
To change the subject, who has been your favourite co-commentator over the years?
I still remember fondly your incredulity in the 94 World Cup when Kevin Keegan tried to defend Leonardo when he elbowed Tab Ramos flush in the face
Good question. I know it sounds like sitting on the fence, but I’ve enjoyed working with all of them from Denis Law in the 70’s to Gary Neville in recent years. I have become good friends with Don Goodman and Davie Provan both of whom I think are underrated. Alan Smith reads the game well, but if you asked me who has been the best I’d have to say (on a purely professional basis!) Andy Gray..
Having not watched Sky Sports for maybe 5 or 6 years until recently getting Now TV for the playoffs, I noticed a very different style of commentary seems to be the norm.
Whereas once there seemed to be a genuine attempt at describing the action by telling us what was happening, now it seems like every misplaced pass or mistimed tackle results in an ex-pro telling us how the player must be disappointed and should have done better for his cost or quality etc etc. There is just relentless moaning and criticising seemingly in a effort to manufacture a controversy or story.
It’s not so much the main commentator but the ex-pro co-commentator. I had to turn the sound off for a couple of games as it became unbearable.
It’s all very subjective, but I’ve always believed that the commentary should not get in the way of the viewers’ enjoyment of the game. I don’t enjoy the conversational style of commentary that ignores what’s happening on the pitch and goes off on tangents unrelated to the action.
Comments
Can we think twice before labeling him the 'baby beast'? It's a term loaded with racial connotations. Bayo may well have embraced it long before he came our way but it doesn't mean that anyone else will or should.
As an aside isn’t it a weird feeling to have to click into the ‘Championship’ link on BBC sport to find the web entry
‘Beast-mode,’ is a fairly well known, positive, non racial epithet in the states.
Looking forward to seeing him in action
Also calling a grown man "baby" is a real dehumanising patronising form of terminology, that reduces his human rights.
Oh - you were being serious...
BLM
Can of worms
It's just isnt though is it?♂️?♂️ it's referring to his build and playing style nothing remotely racial, im 6.4 and 17 stone i refer to myself as a baby beast. Im a father of two mix raced children of African decent so leave off with pc crap. Shall i refer to him as 'they' so i don't offend anyone of any race of any sex anywhere..... pathetic post
??
Hang on chief, if you're a baby beast, at 6ft 4 and 17 stone, who on earth is a fully grown beast
Even our own guy is 16 stone isn't he, and much shorter!
He's much stronger than me though....
Beast is one of the words that commentators were told to be wary of using about black players, despite me pointing out that it’s Bayo’s self appointed nickname. So was ‘pacey’ which’s just proves how over sensitive this issue has become-and black pundits like Don Goodman and Danny Gabbidon are in agreement.
How a> @aloysius said:
I agree. It's a good point, and just because people willfully refuse to understand it doesn't mean it's wrong
I suspect calling someone ‘chief’ is also on the banned list!
I think "over-sensitive" is probably a bad choice of words in an otherwise welcome post. Anyone with even a tiny bit of knowledge of black history knows how racially charged that word is. If they don't, then it's ten minutes reading for some self improvement.
It’s not a matter of people ‘wilfully’ refusing to understand it, it’s a case of implying a racial slur where none exists.
Chief on the urban dictionary is a term of abuse apparently...as shown in such shows as the channel 4 comedy phoneshop (am guessing you don't watch that!)
No racist connotation - more a scumbag.
But obvs mine was meant affectionately - chief = the boss.
But if we're stretching definitions, then i guess you're right!
I was referring to the word ‘pacey’ which by no stretch of imagination could possibly be construed as racist, but thanks for the advice.
Anyway, can’t we just concentrate on welcoming our latest signing and not get sidetracked on other issues?
There has often been a tendency to label black players as "lazy" more than their white counterparts, or to highlight physical aspects of a black player's game more than with versus white players.
But if you can't say a very fast player is very fast it's a sad world.
I wonder how anyone would commentate on Traore for example. He's near sprinter pace, and his strength and pace are literally most of his game!
It doesn't stop it being a racial slur, even if you don't intend it as such. Which is exactly why you'd be fired if you referred to a black player as a beast in a commentary.
It is often a lazy stereotype used to describe black players often when not even particularly accurate
It's not controversial to say that surely?
Yes please.....
Don Goodman summed it up perfectly when he said: ‘If someone had called me pacey when I was playing I’d have been delighted!’.
Yes for certain.
It's when a player is defined as just being pacy when they have a lot more to offer, based on stereotypes.
Although some players genuinely are just pace!
Anyway, stop hijacking it @glasshalffull , or we'll call you glasshalfdev
To change the subject, who has been your favourite co-commentator over the years?
I still remember fondly your incredulity in the 94 World Cup when Kevin Keegan tried to defend Leonardo when he elbowed Tab Ramos flush in the face
So it was fine labeling Jon Parkin as a beast, but its not fine to use the same label for a similar type of player in ikpeazu purely because he is black. We seem to be gradually getting away from the premise that everyone is equal.
Good question. I know it sounds like sitting on the fence, but I’ve enjoyed working with all of them from Denis Law in the 70’s to Gary Neville in recent years. I have become good friends with Don Goodman and Davie Provan both of whom I think are underrated. Alan Smith reads the game well, but if you asked me who has been the best I’d have to say (on a purely professional basis!) Andy Gray..
Having not watched Sky Sports for maybe 5 or 6 years until recently getting Now TV for the playoffs, I noticed a very different style of commentary seems to be the norm.
Whereas once there seemed to be a genuine attempt at describing the action by telling us what was happening, now it seems like every misplaced pass or mistimed tackle results in an ex-pro telling us how the player must be disappointed and should have done better for his cost or quality etc etc. There is just relentless moaning and criticising seemingly in a effort to manufacture a controversy or story.
It’s not so much the main commentator but the ex-pro co-commentator. I had to turn the sound off for a couple of games as it became unbearable.
It’s all very subjective, but I’ve always believed that the commentary should not get in the way of the viewers’ enjoyment of the game. I don’t enjoy the conversational style of commentary that ignores what’s happening on the pitch and goes off on tangents unrelated to the action.