@OxfordBlue said:
Would you get a photo taken standing next to Tommy?
I can't imagine that I'd ever need or want to do that no.
But nor do I accept that having such a photo taken is in any way an endorsement of his views.
It is a photo completely devoid of context and it wouldn't do anyone any harm to show a bit of patience and wait until they know the context in which it was taken
To say the photo was devoid of context is revisionist history. Parker captioned it with the following:
Is freedom of speech a dying necessity?!
Both of these gentlemen are loved by many and hated by many.
The common link between the two is they both express their beliefs on a daily basis and stand by them regardless of anyone or anything.
I admit there is some reading between the lines to be done.
But If I thought Tommy Robinson's views were worthless hate and bile, I probably wouldn't post a picture next to him and suggest he is a valuable and committed freedom of speech advocate.
@OxfordBlue said:
I admit there is some reading between the lines to be done.
But If I thought Tommy Robinson's views were worthless hate and bile, I probably wouldn't post a picture next to him and suggest he is a valuable and committed freedom of speech advocate.
I think part of Gaz's success has been creating an environment where players feel safe to express their opinions and maintain the respect of their teammates.
You've got the Christian lads talking a lot about their faith, the likes of Wheeler and JJ who have political debates and you've got Josh Parker's somewhat left-field views on a range of subjects.
Look at the players' social media accounts and you'll see Parker is every bit a part of the most special team spirit I've ever seen as anyone else on that squad. Gaz singled him out for praise on Monday night. Said he didn't get a minute on the pitch but he was leading the support from the sidelines throughout and never letting the energy drop.
It's amazing to me that people are still not getting what makes this current crop so special
Well argued as ever (that sounds patronising, I don’t mean it to be) but I’d suggest there’s a marked difference between a player expressing their faith (provided it doesn’t cross the line into bigotry, such as we saw fairly recently with that Christian rugby player who posted homophobic opinions from a religious context) and Parker posting pictures of him, smiling, with TR (which doesn’t equate to endorsement, but is still shows, at best, a lack of judgement).
He’s also posted anti-vax conspiracy theories, not illegal of course and his right to think that, but not a great look for WW by association. But my biggest concern is apparently (I don’t use insta, so haven’t seen this myself) someone got a screenahot of him posting transphobic views, which is where he surely does cross the line. For all we know, this could be the thin end of the wedge for his views. He certainly seems to be living a different reality to the majority of us.
I’m not saying he should be sacked, I’m saying it would be best if we could find a taker for him, and this is mostly from a footballing perspective, but yes, partly because of his online activity. Mainly, I just want him off the wage bill if he’s not going to play.
Re your last sentence. If that was aimed at me, I can assure you I very much ‘get’ what is so special about this team’s togetherness, but that doesn’t mean we should keep him on just to be a well-paid cheerleader. Sido was a huge part of that special bond and we still released him.
I think it's possible to read a statement painting Yaxley-Lennon as some kind of free speech freedom fighter as being an endorsement, yes. Because that's not what he is, he's a c*nt.
Edit: Replaced a vowel with an asterisk, because I do actually have some empathy for the sensitivities of others.
Look at the players' social media accounts and you'll see Parker is every bit a part of the most special team spirit I've ever seen as anyone else on that squad. Gaz singled him out for praise on Monday night. Said he didn't get a minute on the pitch but he was leading the support from the sidelines throughout and never letting the energy drop.
It's amazing to me that people are still not getting what makes this current crop so special
By this argument we should have kept JGS, Mascoll, Jombati, Stockdale - they were all cheering from the sidelines, they were all part of the team spirit this season. But they weren't likely to get a game so Gareth let them go.
If Josh Parker wasn't being brought on by Gareth when we were behind and needed a goal in League One, it's hard to imagine him being the solution in the Championship.
He was a signing too far last summer and it clearly hasn't worked out for him this season. Even if he doesn't move on during the window I can't see him not being loaned out to a League Two club, much like CMS this year.
I'm not religious but I don't mind if other people are and I've no doubt most footballers (if they vote at all) lean far more towards low tax governments than I might, but personally I don't want to pay to see someone who thinks Yaxley-Lennon's tenacity in hanging onto his appalling racist world view in the face of widespread criticism (and high media profile) should be admired. But that's just me. I hope Luton come in for him.
@eric_plant said:
Again, who has expressed that view?
Josh Parker.
Is freedom of speech a dying necessity?!
Both of these gentlemen are loved by many and hated by many.
The common link between the two is they both express their beliefs on a daily basis and stand by them regardless of anyone or anything.
He had an unimaginably awful time abroad when he went to play in Belgrade. I admire that he didn't let it defeat him.
I've met him only once, when he spoke passionately about how wants to improve the chances of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds by encouraging them to read and making books available to them and how he planned to use his cafe to achieve this.
I admire his anti racist campaigning and support if the Black Lives Matter movement.
And I can see that he's every bit a part of the Wycombe team spirit as anyone else and that he put aside any disappointment he might have had about not being involved and any self consciousness about how it looked to lead the support of the team during the play offs as Gaz had asked him.
So yeah, I do support him.
But I guess you have to stick your pitchfork in something eh?
@eric_plant said:
But those players are all out of contract
CMS wasn’t this year and he didn’t play a single minute for us. I wouldn’t be surprised if, as suggested above, Parker is shipped out on loan next season.
He deserves praise for the role he has played in this season’s success, but he is not Championship quality.
That's fine, I just don't agree that "he's a PR disaster waiting to happen" which is a reason you seemed to give, in part at least, to want him to leave
My point, perhaps not brilliantly expressed, was that there's not a manager I've ever known that places more importance on a player's character than Gaz does and literally in the last couple of days he's singled him out for glowing praise.
I also hate how quickly a mob mentality can be whipped up and how quickly people are conflating speculation and fact
Parker's online jibber jabber aside, he's barely featured all season in this division.
It'd take an exceptionally optimistic person to think he'll contribute at a higher level.
Love that he seems to fit the mate's club we have and it's fantastic he's leading the support from the sidelines but like CMS, tough decisions have to be made at times.
The amazing thing when you think that we've been promoted, is that none of the attacking signings we made had huge contributions.
Parker not much.
Aarons only hinted at what he could do.
Smyth out for months and only a few glimpses.
Fred out for huge amounts of time though when he's played has been quality.
@eric_plant That’s fair and I’m sure he is a great guy to have around the place, but if he’s not considered good enough to play bu the manager then he is, to be blunt, a financial drain, no matter how pleasant he is in training. All our other strikers are good guys too and they’re getting game time. Parker is already 6th choice of our contracted strikers, with no doubt at least one more to come in, plus Freeman able to play there.
My desire to see him off our wage bill is 95% football, or to be precise, financial reasons, but the social media crap does influence that decision.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the potential for damaging PR. IMHO, it only takes one tabloid journalist to spot that photo, then do a bit of digging through his other SM posts. It wouldn’t be huge news, but it wouldn’t be good news, especially the transphobic stuff, if true.
For some context, Joey Barton (of all people) whilst still a player, got into hot water for posing for a picture with TR, which the EDL subsquently used on their social media. Barton claimed he didn’t know who Robinson was (this was many years ago, before Robinson became as notorious as he is now) and thought he was just a fan asking for a picture. Still caused him bother though.
Funnily enough, the same thing happened again a year or so ago, when (I think) an Arsenal player, possibly a goalkeeper, posed for a photo with him. Same story - didn’t know/realise who he was, but it wasn’t exactly a great day for the Gooners’ press officer.
It'd make sense for Parker to get a move elsewhere, simply for his own benefit.
Even with 9 subs continuing, and 5 subs able to come on, it may not be enough to get onto the pitch more.
I hope Josh finds a successful loan club next year.
Have met him a few times and he's a genuinely nice guy, but some of the things he's posted online are a liability to the club. If you believe that vaccines are a conspiracy to kill people, that karma is real and was the reason for some covid deaths, or can't see that sharing a platform and getting pictured with a known racist agitator might not be wise, you are by definition a PR liability. That in no way means we should be looking at ending his contract, but it would make me hesitant to renew if we did want to from the football side
I think part of Gaz's success has been creating an environment where players feel safe to express their opinions and maintain the respect of their teammates.
You've got the Christian lads talking a lot about their faith, the likes of Wheeler and JJ who have political debates and you've got Josh Parker's somewhat left-field views on a range of subjects.
Look at the players' social media accounts and you'll see Parker is every bit a part of the most special team spirit I've ever seen as anyone else on that squad. Gaz singled him out for praise on Monday night. Said he didn't get a minute on the pitch but he was leading the support from the sidelines throughout and never letting the energy drop.
It's amazing to me that people are still not getting what makes this current crop so special
Can I put an early bid in for Josh Parker as our top scorer next year?
Disagree with virtually everything I’ve read about what people says he believes in (and do actually think the club should have a quiet word with him) but in footballing terms I think he may benefit if we change our approach a bit, which we may if Bayo becomes more a plan B.
Comments
I can't imagine that I'd ever need or want to do that no.
But nor do I accept that having such a photo taken is in any way an endorsement of his views.
It is a photo completely devoid of context and it wouldn't do anyone any harm to show a bit of patience and wait until they know the context in which it was taken
To say the photo was devoid of context is revisionist history. Parker captioned it with the following:
Is freedom of speech a dying necessity?!
Both of these gentlemen are loved by many and hated by many.
The common link between the two is they both express their beliefs on a daily basis and stand by them regardless of anyone or anything.
What has he said there that you disagree with?
I admit there is some reading between the lines to be done.
But If I thought Tommy Robinson's views were worthless hate and bile, I probably wouldn't post a picture next to him and suggest he is a valuable and committed freedom of speech advocate.
But is he a big centre forward?
I don't think he has suggested that
We seem to have retreated somewhat from the "Je suis Charlie" movement of some years ago
Here we go again. Tommy Robinson is a racist agitator. He may have plans to get the trains running on time though.
No we haven't. Tommy Robinson is free to say what he likes.
People are also free to, if they wish, amplify his reach and promote his views via social media.
I am free to criticise them for it.
So he's free to say what he wants but shouldn't be allowed any platform on which to say it?
Where have I said he shouldn't be allowed to say/post what he did?
He's allowed to post about it. I'm allowed to infer from that tacit support, and criticise him for it.
I don't think you are, but we're going round in circles
Would be better off discussing this over a pint I reckon
Well argued as ever (that sounds patronising, I don’t mean it to be) but I’d suggest there’s a marked difference between a player expressing their faith (provided it doesn’t cross the line into bigotry, such as we saw fairly recently with that Christian rugby player who posted homophobic opinions from a religious context) and Parker posting pictures of him, smiling, with TR (which doesn’t equate to endorsement, but is still shows, at best, a lack of judgement).
He’s also posted anti-vax conspiracy theories, not illegal of course and his right to think that, but not a great look for WW by association. But my biggest concern is apparently (I don’t use insta, so haven’t seen this myself) someone got a screenahot of him posting transphobic views, which is where he surely does cross the line. For all we know, this could be the thin end of the wedge for his views. He certainly seems to be living a different reality to the majority of us.
I’m not saying he should be sacked, I’m saying it would be best if we could find a taker for him, and this is mostly from a footballing perspective, but yes, partly because of his online activity. Mainly, I just want him off the wage bill if he’s not going to play.
Re your last sentence. If that was aimed at me, I can assure you I very much ‘get’ what is so special about this team’s togetherness, but that doesn’t mean we should keep him on just to be a well-paid cheerleader. Sido was a huge part of that special bond and we still released him.
Sorry for the long post.
I think it's possible to read a statement painting Yaxley-Lennon as some kind of free speech freedom fighter as being an endorsement, yes. Because that's not what he is, he's a c*nt.
Edit: Replaced a vowel with an asterisk, because I do actually have some empathy for the sensitivities of others.
@eric_plant said:
By this argument we should have kept JGS, Mascoll, Jombati, Stockdale - they were all cheering from the sidelines, they were all part of the team spirit this season. But they weren't likely to get a game so Gareth let them go.
If Josh Parker wasn't being brought on by Gareth when we were behind and needed a goal in League One, it's hard to imagine him being the solution in the Championship.
He was a signing too far last summer and it clearly hasn't worked out for him this season. Even if he doesn't move on during the window I can't see him not being loaned out to a League Two club, much like CMS this year.
But those players are all out of contract
But if squad unity was the only factor under consideration, they could have been offered new contracts
I'm not religious but I don't mind if other people are and I've no doubt most footballers (if they vote at all) lean far more towards low tax governments than I might, but personally I don't want to pay to see someone who thinks Yaxley-Lennon's tenacity in hanging onto his appalling racist world view in the face of widespread criticism (and high media profile) should be admired. But that's just me. I hope Luton come in for him.
Again, who has expressed that view?
Josh Parker.
Is freedom of speech a dying necessity?!
Both of these gentlemen are loved by many and hated by many.
The common link between the two is they both express their beliefs on a daily basis and stand by them regardless of anyone or anything.
'Can I have a picture Tommy...'
Maybe you could interview all potential new signings to see that their world view is acceptable to you?
Your support for Josh is touching @eric_plant
I do support him as it goes.
He had an unimaginably awful time abroad when he went to play in Belgrade. I admire that he didn't let it defeat him.
I've met him only once, when he spoke passionately about how wants to improve the chances of kids from disadvantaged backgrounds by encouraging them to read and making books available to them and how he planned to use his cafe to achieve this.
I admire his anti racist campaigning and support if the Black Lives Matter movement.
And I can see that he's every bit a part of the Wycombe team spirit as anyone else and that he put aside any disappointment he might have had about not being involved and any self consciousness about how it looked to lead the support of the team during the play offs as Gaz had asked him.
So yeah, I do support him.
But I guess you have to stick your pitchfork in something eh?
CMS wasn’t this year and he didn’t play a single minute for us. I wouldn’t be surprised if, as suggested above, Parker is shipped out on loan next season.
He deserves praise for the role he has played in this season’s success, but he is not Championship quality.
That's fine, I just don't agree that "he's a PR disaster waiting to happen" which is a reason you seemed to give, in part at least, to want him to leave
My point, perhaps not brilliantly expressed, was that there's not a manager I've ever known that places more importance on a player's character than Gaz does and literally in the last couple of days he's singled him out for glowing praise.
I also hate how quickly a mob mentality can be whipped up and how quickly people are conflating speculation and fact
Parker's online jibber jabber aside, he's barely featured all season in this division.
It'd take an exceptionally optimistic person to think he'll contribute at a higher level.
Love that he seems to fit the mate's club we have and it's fantastic he's leading the support from the sidelines but like CMS, tough decisions have to be made at times.
The amazing thing when you think that we've been promoted, is that none of the attacking signings we made had huge contributions.
Parker not much.
Aarons only hinted at what he could do.
Smyth out for months and only a few glimpses.
Fred out for huge amounts of time though when he's played has been quality.
Shows how strong we've been over the whole squad.
@eric_plant That’s fair and I’m sure he is a great guy to have around the place, but if he’s not considered good enough to play bu the manager then he is, to be blunt, a financial drain, no matter how pleasant he is in training. All our other strikers are good guys too and they’re getting game time. Parker is already 6th choice of our contracted strikers, with no doubt at least one more to come in, plus Freeman able to play there.
My desire to see him off our wage bill is 95% football, or to be precise, financial reasons, but the social media crap does influence that decision.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on the potential for damaging PR. IMHO, it only takes one tabloid journalist to spot that photo, then do a bit of digging through his other SM posts. It wouldn’t be huge news, but it wouldn’t be good news, especially the transphobic stuff, if true.
For some context, Joey Barton (of all people) whilst still a player, got into hot water for posing for a picture with TR, which the EDL subsquently used on their social media. Barton claimed he didn’t know who Robinson was (this was many years ago, before Robinson became as notorious as he is now) and thought he was just a fan asking for a picture. Still caused him bother though.
Funnily enough, the same thing happened again a year or so ago, when (I think) an Arsenal player, possibly a goalkeeper, posed for a photo with him. Same story - didn’t know/realise who he was, but it wasn’t exactly a great day for the Gooners’ press officer.
Something we should be very wary of.
Sorry for another War and Peace post!
It'd make sense for Parker to get a move elsewhere, simply for his own benefit.
Even with 9 subs continuing, and 5 subs able to come on, it may not be enough to get onto the pitch more.
Gareth will know what to do for the best though.
I hope Josh finds a successful loan club next year.
Have met him a few times and he's a genuinely nice guy, but some of the things he's posted online are a liability to the club. If you believe that vaccines are a conspiracy to kill people, that karma is real and was the reason for some covid deaths, or can't see that sharing a platform and getting pictured with a known racist agitator might not be wise, you are by definition a PR liability. That in no way means we should be looking at ending his contract, but it would make me hesitant to renew if we did want to from the football side
Fully agree
Can I put an early bid in for Josh Parker as our top scorer next year?
Disagree with virtually everything I’ve read about what people says he believes in (and do actually think the club should have a quiet word with him) but in footballing terms I think he may benefit if we change our approach a bit, which we may if Bayo becomes more a plan B.