A poster called AbsoluteZero on the Oxford forum is now kicking off because we played “Bolton’s kids”! Entertaining watching them go from celebrating to now grabbing the pitchforks, even though nobody knows what the outcome will be!
I don't think anyone can claim to have played a strong Bolton team! Actually the side we faced on the opening day was slightly stronger than that in subsequent weeks, as a few of their remaining experienced players left the following week.
We certainly were able to get off to a rip roaring start in that game!
How we only won 2-0 I will never know, as Pattison himself should have had a hattrick at least in that mad last 10mins.
But why they focus on that game I don't know.
We could quite as easily point out that in that congested spell over Christmas, we played 2 games over 3 days (was it?), whereas whoever we played in the second game had the first game off - by the nature of an odd amount of games division.
@Malone said:
Agree with a lot of that, and there's absolutely no chance of finishing the games.
We are going to play games at some point so why not just wait. If we never play again who finishes where is for the only time irrelevant.
I do get the impression that us being in the promotion mix and showing some class when asked, the bigger teams are really showing their full bully boy tactics. After the week we've had I'm more certsin than ever at least one team is going to go legal.
How long do you propose waiting for?
Until we can 100% play the rest of this season and any future season without a delay?
That doesn't work in the real world, as you have 1,400 players out of contract in 6 weeks, and the host of problems that brings. They have to move things on, and believe that things will go the right direction and that some sort of season will take place in the usual time frame for 2020/21
You're spot on with the second paragraph though.
This player contract thing has got to be easier to sort out than deciding on an artificial ending to the season. A short term contract for some. A rule on any new player registrations.
The clubs are more equal on this than any end game. Why aren't they spending any energy on it?
It's easy to suggest extensions but can you force players to extend? Can you force clubs to extend all players or do the poorer ones have to work with less. Can they sign for someone else for next year but extend for the end of this, is there a conflict? Minefield I think.
Another question - can @chairboyscentral (or anyone) post which players are out of contract for us? I know it was posted somewhere before, but I forget.
I think Blooms is one of them? I hope RC dips in his pockets to keep him, no matter what. It would be a galling way to lose Mr. Wycombe.
@Malone said:
Agree with a lot of that, and there's absolutely no chance of finishing the games.
We are going to play games at some point so why not just wait. If we never play again who finishes where is for the only time irrelevant.
I do get the impression that us being in the promotion mix and showing some class when asked, the bigger teams are really showing their full bully boy tactics. After the week we've had I'm more certsin than ever at least one team is going to go legal.
How long do you propose waiting for?
Until we can 100% play the rest of this season and any future season without a delay?
That doesn't work in the real world, as you have 1,400 players out of contract in 6 weeks, and the host of problems that brings. They have to move things on, and believe that things will go the right direction and that some sort of season will take place in the usual time frame for 2020/21
You're spot on with the second paragraph though.
This player contract thing has got to be easier to sort out than deciding on an artificial ending to the season. A short term contract for some. A rule on any new player registrations.
The clubs are more equal on this than any end game. Why aren't they spending any energy on it?
The obvious answer is that no-one realistically thinks it will be affordable at our level for months. Far easier (and more sensible) to draw a line in the sand to allow planning for the/a future. If there was a definite day when you could reasonably say that each club could fulfil their remaining fixtures by, sure try and find a temporary fix with the contracts.
But no-one knows. The fact that L2 teams have agreed to call the season off mean there has to now be a finite end in the next couple of months to the rest of the pyramid. Otherwise we could have the farce of professional footballers at L2 denied making a living well into the new year due to the stubbornness of a few teams in L1.
JJ too? Wow - that's three of the four generals. Losing Stewart would be awful too.
Bayo is a strange one - I love the man, and want him to continue with us as long as he is playing, but we do not know if he was going to retire anyway, which might soften the blow? It is nice he broke the league scoring record his last time out, too.
If we do let everyone go, this would put a lot on Gape's shoulders (especially), for leadership.
@bookertease said:
On the subject of players, isn’t it time we had a ‘player of the season’ thread?
And in these strange times how does anyone feel about doing it in the style of the ‘you choose cup’ to help get us through the next couple of weeks?
I'm all for it, though if we do have the playoffs, anyone who scored the winner against Oxford or Peterborough in the 90th minute would automatically jump over everyone else!
JJ too? Wow - that's three of the four generals. Losing Stewart would be awful too.
Bayo is a strange one - I love the man, and want him to continue with us as long as he is playing, but we do not know if he was going to retire anyway, which might soften the blow? It is nice he broke the league scoring record his last time out, too.
If we do let everyone go, this would put a lot on Gape's shoulders (especially), for leadership.
I think we'll keep Stewart, JJ (we have to keep those two) and Blooms, Bayo if he wants to carry on, and let the others go.
LOL. Have a read of all that and then remember that they really dont care about us. The guy who thinks Rob Couhig has bribed the EFL may be my favourite.
Whatever happens from here, thank you to the EFL for bringing such joy to my evening.
"So let me try and get my head around things as they stand.. Swindon celebrate being champions of their league but we just have to chew on the shitty end of the stick and applaud with a stiff upper lip as Wycombe mince their way into the championship..? Because the brakes were put on just as we were hitting form and about to mow down Rotherham in second place at the same time as Wycombe were imploding and dropping down to obscurity..
Forgive me if I cant help feeling that fate has just taken an almighty s**t on us yet again..."
BBC reporting League 1 could have extended play offs to include up to 8 teams. Peterborough really are desperate aren't they? Perhaps they could learn a thing or 2 from Port Vale's conduct in deciding League 2
The "home advantage" that the Oxford "weighted ppg" solution just HAS to be accounted for is 1.67 : 1.06 (league average home ppg: away ppg)
An example of just one other unconsidered factor in this, whether you have "hard" or "easy" fixtures :- simplified to teams in the top half or bottom half (1-12,13-23), has a ratio of 1.70 : 1.02 (league average ppg vs top half teams: ppg vs bottom half teams).
It's a more significant effect than whether you're playing home or away.
Sorting the league using each team's ppg against top / bottom half teams to predict results for a final table would have us third:
Coventry 86.71
Rotherham 77.65
Wycombe 76.35
Oxford 75.92
Fleetwood 75.77
Peterboro 75.53
Portsmouth 74.92
Sunderland 73.22
I'm not proposing this new system in any way, just demonstrating that choosing 1 factor when there are other significant (or even more significant factors) is simply wrong and just leads to clubs pushing solutions for their own benefit on the pretence of "fairness".
You either make a detailed model, explaining which factors are included based on their statistical significance, and which aren't, or you use the only 2 absolutely unquestionable parameters of points and matches.
I'll check over my workings tomorrow and upload the file to show the data if anyone's interested (or to find any mistakes)
(I need football back as soon as it's safe badly).
@Wycombe85 said:
BBC reporting League 1 could have extended play offs to include up to 8 teams. Peterborough really are desperate aren't they? Perhaps they could learn a thing or 2 from Port Vale's conduct in deciding League 2
Have eight-team play-offs in L1 and you have to do the same in L2 and Championship, surely?
@Wycombe85 said:
BBC reporting League 1 could have extended play offs to include up to 8 teams. Peterborough really are desperate aren't they? Perhaps they could learn a thing or 2 from Port Vale's conduct in deciding League 2
Have eight-team play-offs in L1 and you have to do the same in L2 and Championship, surely?
And change the rules. Why stop at 8 teams? Make it 16 and some teams with slightly lower self entitlement a chance.
I know fans tend to be one eyed buffoons at times, but those Oxford posters really take the biscuit.
They're adamant that they were on some epic unstoppable surge to inevitable promotion, yet we were on an impossible to stop massive drop to "oblivion".
Yet a simple game in hand win for us would take us above them.
None of them can see that they're merely 3rd due to their fortune of a late winner last game out, after 10 men Shrewsbury imploded, mixed in with us not having a game, through the vagaries of a 23 team league.
Some seem to be suggesting our game in hand should be predicted, but not through points per game obviously, but only through declaring it a loss as it was "a tough game".
One genius even suggested taking out all the Bolton results for the reason!
How about we take out all the results against... (Picks team we've lost to, and Oxford have beaten)
There hasn't even been a ruling yet, and they're already whinging about how "unfair" it all is?!
How so? Unless 3rd goes up automatically, which seems unlikely, how are they any worse off in a play off situation?
Have they even been in the top 3 all season until now? Hard to see how they think they've been robbed in any way.
The idea that Coventry away was our "game in hand" is a complete red herring too.
The fact is, we've played one fewer game than everyone else. It doesn't matter if that game is Coventry, Southend, Lincoln, Accrington, or whoever else we have left to play
Before everybody goes off the deep end can I just refer you back to a post I made some days ago.
Please, please, please will somebody check the EFL rules - other than me because I'm sure I must have missed it.
They appear to me to regulate for how you determine the league 1 champion and the runner-up to be promoted, and then they in detail regulate the teams who will compete in, and under separate rules the format for, the play-offs.
What I couldn't find - which astonished me - was the definition of a season as "Play everyone else, home and away" - or words to that effect.
Any variation on this format involves changing the rules of the EFL, with the possibility of litigation if you don't like what they change the rules to.
As a consequence, FWIW, my befuddled understanding is they (EFL) could declare the league compete now - no need to allow for the fact we have played less games (because there is no definition of what constitutes a season!!!), promote top 2 and play the play-offs as normal involving teams placed 3rd to 6th, i.e. without WWFC in 8th place. PPG or WPPG or 8 team play-off mini-league all moot.
Please someone show me I'm wrong? Where is the definition of a season stated?
The EFL have already stated that, should it come to it, final league positions could be determined by unweighted PPG.
“In the event of a curtailment of the season, the EFL Board outlined how this could be addressed through a framework that includes maintaining the principle of promotion and relegation, league tables to be determined via unweighted points per game (PPG) and Play-Offs to remain in every division to determine the final promotion place.”
Comments
A poster called AbsoluteZero on the Oxford forum is now kicking off because we played “Bolton’s kids”! Entertaining watching them go from celebrating to now grabbing the pitchforks, even though nobody knows what the outcome will be!
I don't think anyone can claim to have played a strong Bolton team! Actually the side we faced on the opening day was slightly stronger than that in subsequent weeks, as a few of their remaining experienced players left the following week.
We certainly were able to get off to a rip roaring start in that game!
How we only won 2-0 I will never know, as Pattison himself should have had a hattrick at least in that mad last 10mins.
But why they focus on that game I don't know.
We could quite as easily point out that in that congested spell over Christmas, we played 2 games over 3 days (was it?), whereas whoever we played in the second game had the first game off - by the nature of an odd amount of games division.
It's easy to suggest extensions but can you force players to extend? Can you force clubs to extend all players or do the poorer ones have to work with less. Can they sign for someone else for next year but extend for the end of this, is there a conflict? Minefield I think.
Another question - can @chairboyscentral (or anyone) post which players are out of contract for us? I know it was posted somewhere before, but I forget.
I think Blooms is one of them? I hope RC dips in his pockets to keep him, no matter what. It would be a galling way to lose Mr. Wycombe.
Stewart, Sido, JJ, Blooms, Pattison, JGS, Bayo, CMS
On the subject of players, isn’t it time we had a ‘player of the season’ thread?
And in these strange times how does anyone feel about doing it in the style of the ‘you choose cup’ to help get us through the next couple of weeks?
The obvious answer is that no-one realistically thinks it will be affordable at our level for months. Far easier (and more sensible) to draw a line in the sand to allow planning for the/a future. If there was a definite day when you could reasonably say that each club could fulfil their remaining fixtures by, sure try and find a temporary fix with the contracts.
But no-one knows. The fact that L2 teams have agreed to call the season off mean there has to now be a finite end in the next couple of months to the rest of the pyramid. Otherwise we could have the farce of professional footballers at L2 denied making a living well into the new year due to the stubbornness of a few teams in L1.
JJ too? Wow - that's three of the four generals. Losing Stewart would be awful too.
Bayo is a strange one - I love the man, and want him to continue with us as long as he is playing, but we do not know if he was going to retire anyway, which might soften the blow? It is nice he broke the league scoring record his last time out, too.
If we do let everyone go, this would put a lot on Gape's shoulders (especially), for leadership.
I'm all for it, though if we do have the playoffs, anyone who scored the winner against Oxford or Peterborough in the 90th minute would automatically jump over everyone else!
I think we'll keep Stewart, JJ (we have to keep those two) and Blooms, Bayo if he wants to carry on, and let the others go.
Oxford forum in absolute meltdown.
What's the URL for the Oxford forum?
In these bleak times, the Oxford forum is providing a rare source of joy
LOL. Have a read of all that and then remember that they really dont care about us. The guy who thinks Rob Couhig has bribed the EFL may be my favourite.
Whatever happens from here, thank you to the EFL for bringing such joy to my evening.
Don't worry, found it. This is beautiful:
"So let me try and get my head around things as they stand.. Swindon celebrate being champions of their league but we just have to chew on the shitty end of the stick and applaud with a stiff upper lip as Wycombe mince their way into the championship..? Because the brakes were put on just as we were hitting form and about to mow down Rotherham in second place at the same time as Wycombe were imploding and dropping down to obscurity..
Forgive me if I cant help feeling that fate has just taken an almighty s**t on us yet again..."
Here's the link https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/how-to-complete-the-season.3731/page-102
BBC reporting League 1 could have extended play offs to include up to 8 teams. Peterborough really are desperate aren't they? Perhaps they could learn a thing or 2 from Port Vale's conduct in deciding League 2
Wow those Oxford fans are deluded.
The "home advantage" that the Oxford "weighted ppg" solution just HAS to be accounted for is 1.67 : 1.06 (league average home ppg: away ppg)
An example of just one other unconsidered factor in this, whether you have "hard" or "easy" fixtures :- simplified to teams in the top half or bottom half (1-12,13-23), has a ratio of 1.70 : 1.02 (league average ppg vs top half teams: ppg vs bottom half teams).
It's a more significant effect than whether you're playing home or away.
Sorting the league using each team's ppg against top / bottom half teams to predict results for a final table would have us third:
I'm not proposing this new system in any way, just demonstrating that choosing 1 factor when there are other significant (or even more significant factors) is simply wrong and just leads to clubs pushing solutions for their own benefit on the pretence of "fairness".
You either make a detailed model, explaining which factors are included based on their statistical significance, and which aren't, or you use the only 2 absolutely unquestionable parameters of points and matches.
I'll check over my workings tomorrow and upload the file to show the data if anyone's interested (or to find any mistakes)
(I need football back as soon as it's safe badly).
Have eight-team play-offs in L1 and you have to do the same in L2 and Championship, surely?
And change the rules. Why stop at 8 teams? Make it 16 and some teams with slightly lower self entitlement a chance.
I know fans tend to be one eyed buffoons at times, but those Oxford posters really take the biscuit.
They're adamant that they were on some epic unstoppable surge to inevitable promotion, yet we were on an impossible to stop massive drop to "oblivion".
Yet a simple game in hand win for us would take us above them.
None of them can see that they're merely 3rd due to their fortune of a late winner last game out, after 10 men Shrewsbury imploded, mixed in with us not having a game, through the vagaries of a 23 team league.
Some seem to be suggesting our game in hand should be predicted, but not through points per game obviously, but only through declaring it a loss as it was "a tough game".
One genius even suggested taking out all the Bolton results for the reason!
How about we take out all the results against... (Picks team we've lost to, and Oxford have beaten)
There hasn't even been a ruling yet, and they're already whinging about how "unfair" it all is?!
How so? Unless 3rd goes up automatically, which seems unlikely, how are they any worse off in a play off situation?
Have they even been in the top 3 all season until now? Hard to see how they think they've been robbed in any way.
This is the BBC story on potentially expanded play-offs. Doesn't seem to be based off much at all, but I was inclined to give it a bit more credence just because it's the BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52683643?__twitter_impression=true
Now if that happened we could go all conspiracy theory about how the FA have been got at by the power 6.
The idea that Coventry away was our "game in hand" is a complete red herring too.
The fact is, we've played one fewer game than everyone else. It doesn't matter if that game is Coventry, Southend, Lincoln, Accrington, or whoever else we have left to play
I believe I am right in saying though @Username that if you base on home/away and league position, Oxford would be above us?
I don't honestly know, I could do it but I'm not sure of its value.
The whole point is that there are countless factors that could be considered, just as a start there could be arguments for:
Form
Rest
Squad availability
Oppositions motivation based on league situation (end of season dead rubbers)
Anyway, looks like the EFL have chosen wisely, it would be incredible if they used different systems in different leagues.
I agree with your last sentence.
I’m not sure why so many people here are so obsessed with what Oxford fans think but, for the record, and for those that can’t stop reading the Oxford message board, it doesn’t take too long to find that weighted ppg puts us in the playoffs -https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/efl-league-one-promotion-relegation-4116483.amp
Before everybody goes off the deep end can I just refer you back to a post I made some days ago.
Please, please, please will somebody check the EFL rules - other than me because I'm sure I must have missed it.
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations
They appear to me to regulate for how you determine the league 1 champion and the runner-up to be promoted, and then they in detail regulate the teams who will compete in, and under separate rules the format for, the play-offs.
What I couldn't find - which astonished me - was the definition of a season as "Play everyone else, home and away" - or words to that effect.
Any variation on this format involves changing the rules of the EFL, with the possibility of litigation if you don't like what they change the rules to.
As a consequence, FWIW, my befuddled understanding is they (EFL) could declare the league compete now - no need to allow for the fact we have played less games (because there is no definition of what constitutes a season!!!), promote top 2 and play the play-offs as normal involving teams placed 3rd to 6th, i.e. without WWFC in 8th place. PPG or WPPG or 8 team play-off mini-league all moot.
Please someone show me I'm wrong? Where is the definition of a season stated?
The EFL have already stated that, should it come to it, final league positions could be determined by unweighted PPG.
“In the event of a curtailment of the season, the EFL Board outlined how this could be addressed through a framework that includes maintaining the principle of promotion and relegation, league tables to be determined via unweighted points per game (PPG) and Play-Offs to remain in every division to determine the final promotion place.”