@Username said:
Agreed @Malone , and I'm not totally convinced of the "sporting integrity" of the outcome of single play off matches involving two non match fit sides in front of an empty ground compared to judging it on 3/4 of a proper season
They'd have to give teams a good 3-4 weeks to get back fit.
And we still have the massive issue of what happens if one player/multiple players come down with the virus. Plus the testing issue, where is the game and suchlike.
On the plus side, much more chance than over the 9-10 game weeks.
And it'll be much more satisfying way of going up then narrowly winning a vote on method! Similar with staying down this way. At least we'd have lost a game, rather than being stitched up on a vote.
I sort of like it, seems the best of an array of dreadful options.
I dare say all of us would have taken playoffs when things stopped.
The ons figures as of may 1st had excess deaths at 50k when listed corona virus deaths were at around 30k. Now I know everyone who disagrees with lockdown suddenly knows of a coroner who wrote down the wrong cause of death to boost the figures, but with our lack of testing, it's much more likely deaths with covid will be underreported as we're simply not looking.
Unless you honestly think that it's acceptable to condemn around a million people to their death by going for herd immunity, then the only way out is drastically reducing numbers, increasing testing and tracing. That way we don't all have to be in lockdown which is undoubtedly harmful to many.
What is your plan in a few weeks when case numbers jump again and hospitals start filling up?
I believe the numbers now may be closer, even if all causes of death stand. Good point re under reporting but that can work both ways. If we have a spike that threatens to overwhelm the NHS then I would support locking down again of course. However, if the elderly and vulnerable continue to shield I hope it won’t happen. Most of us will get it and recover without needing hospital treatment.
There are huge numbers of people who have underlying health conditions they don't know about, also I think youd be surprised at what counts as an underlying condition, it will be a significant portion of the population.
@Onlooker said:
People seem not be be seeking help if they have medical conditions.
If I read your argument correct you are saying more people are dying than ‘just’ from C-19 due to not going to hospital due to lockdown.
Your logic here seems rather flawed. People aren’t going to hospital (in all probability) due to fears of contracting C-19 of (in some cases) out of a duty not to add burden to the NHS (a very British thing). This has NOTHING to do with lockdown. The visible effect of lockdown has been to reduce C-19 cases in hospital thereby making it perceptibly safer to attend hospitals with other symptoms. Without lockdown it is certain we would be in a worse position now than we currently are with accessibility and capabilities in hospital.
There may be an intellectual argument that the stress, emotional, economic and other effects of lockdown and subsequent deaths from that would outweigh the estimated 250,000 deaths in the UK if we had carried on normally, but these deaths will mostly occur further down the line than currently.
And to be honest it would take a government of absolutely no empathy (as we nearly had with Dominic Cummings in charge pulling the strings or as Donald Trump is demonstrating in the Land of the Free) to believe that was the best approach to take.
I'd still expect them to do it sooner, but surely 25th May is the absolute cut-off for announcing the season is over? In fairness to the EFL, I think they've given it a good chance of being completed on the pitch, but it was always going to be out of their hands and clubs really do need clarity ASAP.
There are huge numbers of people who have underlying health conditions they don't know about, also I think youd be surprised at what counts as an underlying condition, it will be a significant portion of the population.
You'll be killing off 100,000s
I hope not and pray they won’t be deterred from seeking NHS help.
Hang on, in that original Mirror link was the line
The play-offs could yet be played behind closed doors at Wembley, it would be a fairer way of settling the issue and is always a money spinner for the EFL.
It wouldn't be much of a money spinner if there are no fans there? Unless they're simply meaning tv this time round.
Or is it even suggesting you might be able to have fans, if you spread them out enough and regiment it?
Surely not?
@Onlooker said:
People seem not be be seeking help if they have medical conditions.
If I read your argument correct you are saying more people are dying than ‘just’ from C-19 due to not going to hospital due to lockdown.
Your logic here seems rather flawed. People aren’t going to hospital (in all probability) due to fears of contracting C-19 of (in some cases) out of a duty not to add burden to the NHS (a very British thing). This has NOTHING to do with lockdown. The visible effect of lockdown has been to reduce C-19 cases in hospital thereby making it perceptibly safer to attend hospitals with other symptoms. Without lockdown it is certain we would be in a worse position now than we currently are with accessibility and capabilities in hospital.
There may be an intellectual argument that the stress, emotional, economic and other effects of lockdown and subsequent deaths from that would outweigh the estimated 250,000 deaths in the UK if we had carried on normally, but these deaths will mostly occur further down the line than currently.
And to be honest it would take a government of absolutely no empathy (as we nearly had with Dominic Cummings in charge pulling the strings or as Donald Trump is demonstrating in the Land of the Free) to believe that was the best approach to take.
Yes I think people are dying from other causes as an indirect result of the lockdown and I hope I’m wrong but worry some could be saved if they weren’t afraid to call their GP or an ambulance because they are in fear or too British to ask for help. It’s a dreadful situation but if we don’t get back to work we will struggle to fund our NHS going forwards. I’m more concerned about this than my chances of dying from COV-19.
PPG play-offs would be interesting. We'd definitely be third, but Fleetwood, Oxford and Pompey are all tied on PPG. If they then went to goal difference per game to separate them, it would be us v Fleetwood and Oxford v Pompey.
@chairboyscentral said:
PPG play-offs would be interesting. We'd definitely be third, but Fleetwood, Oxford and Pompey are all tied on PPG. If they then went to goal difference per game to separate them, it would be us v Fleetwood and Oxford v Pompey.
It'd be a tough battle to get promoted, but then that's probably the best we'd have been hoping for if the season was played out in fairness.
Intriguing to think of it played at Wembley in an empty stadium!
Would that make it feel more of an occasion, even empty?
It's so tight that one game week can be a massive changer.
Oxford being fortunate that they turned a 2-0 loss to a 3-2 win in the 88th min v Shrewsbury last game out.
I know this is convenient for us, but with all the argument being 3rd on PPG vs 3rd on weighted PPG, let's just have a "PPG playoff final" at Wembley versus Oxford. One game to prepare for. There is no way Peterborough can get third no matter how they dice it.
@Shev said:
I hear you, but I strongly believe we would win. Bayo has a score to settle!
I am willing to bet that Gaz and the team’s work through lockdown mean our players are the best prepared psychologically for a return and as well prepared physically as any. With that in mind, if the plan ends up being a ‘winner takes it all’ match between us and Oxford at Wembley I’ll have a tenner on us winning it 3-1 with Bayo to score.
@Onlooker said:
Even Prof Ferguson thinks 30%-50% are from people dying from other things because healthcare is overloaded or people are more reluctant to go to hospital.
If you open up lockdown, hospitals will be totally overrun and out of control so they won’t be able to go anyway.
I wonder if a different playoff system including potentially relegated teams is being considered? That would at least give them a fighting chance to stay up.
@WildWestFC said:
I wonder if a different playoff system including potentially relegated teams is being considered? That would at least give them a fighting chance to stay up.
Can only see this if clubs won't accept the normal number of relegations from each division and at that point all bets are off as it descends into farce and messy arguments
Comments
They'd have to give teams a good 3-4 weeks to get back fit.
And we still have the massive issue of what happens if one player/multiple players come down with the virus. Plus the testing issue, where is the game and suchlike.
On the plus side, much more chance than over the 9-10 game weeks.
And it'll be much more satisfying way of going up then narrowly winning a vote on method! Similar with staying down this way. At least we'd have lost a game, rather than being stitched up on a vote.
I sort of like it, seems the best of an array of dreadful options.
I dare say all of us would have taken playoffs when things stopped.
There are huge numbers of people who have underlying health conditions they don't know about, also I think youd be surprised at what counts as an underlying condition, it will be a significant portion of the population.
You'll be killing off 100,000s
No suggestion in the EFL's latest statement that L1 and 2 are going to be concluded just yet. https://www.efl.com/news/2020/may/efl-statement-coronavirus-update
If I read your argument correct you are saying more people are dying than ‘just’ from C-19 due to not going to hospital due to lockdown.
Your logic here seems rather flawed. People aren’t going to hospital (in all probability) due to fears of contracting C-19 of (in some cases) out of a duty not to add burden to the NHS (a very British thing). This has NOTHING to do with lockdown. The visible effect of lockdown has been to reduce C-19 cases in hospital thereby making it perceptibly safer to attend hospitals with other symptoms. Without lockdown it is certain we would be in a worse position now than we currently are with accessibility and capabilities in hospital.
There may be an intellectual argument that the stress, emotional, economic and other effects of lockdown and subsequent deaths from that would outweigh the estimated 250,000 deaths in the UK if we had carried on normally, but these deaths will mostly occur further down the line than currently.
And to be honest it would take a government of absolutely no empathy (as we nearly had with Dominic Cummings in charge pulling the strings or as Donald Trump is demonstrating in the Land of the Free) to believe that was the best approach to take.
Dominic Cummings is still the PM @bookertease, but otherwise absolutely spot on.
They still have loads to sort, even if that Mirror version is the detail.
I'd still expect them to do it sooner, but surely 25th May is the absolute cut-off for announcing the season is over? In fairness to the EFL, I think they've given it a good chance of being completed on the pitch, but it was always going to be out of their hands and clubs really do need clarity ASAP.
I hope not and pray they won’t be deterred from seeking NHS help.
Hang on, in that original Mirror link was the line
The play-offs could yet be played behind closed doors at Wembley, it would be a fairer way of settling the issue and is always a money spinner for the EFL.
It wouldn't be much of a money spinner if there are no fans there? Unless they're simply meaning tv this time round.
Or is it even suggesting you might be able to have fans, if you spread them out enough and regiment it?
Surely not?
Yes I think people are dying from other causes as an indirect result of the lockdown and I hope I’m wrong but worry some could be saved if they weren’t afraid to call their GP or an ambulance because they are in fear or too British to ask for help. It’s a dreadful situation but if we don’t get back to work we will struggle to fund our NHS going forwards. I’m more concerned about this than my chances of dying from COV-19.
Here's the Mirror article if it hasn't already been shared. https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/championship-season-set-resume-before-22022838
PPG play-offs would be interesting. We'd definitely be third, but Fleetwood, Oxford and Pompey are all tied on PPG. If they then went to goal difference per game to separate them, it would be us v Fleetwood and Oxford v Pompey.
It'd be a tough battle to get promoted, but then that's probably the best we'd have been hoping for if the season was played out in fairness.
Intriguing to think of it played at Wembley in an empty stadium!
Would that make it feel more of an occasion, even empty?
Are we saying Portsmouth would edge out Peterborough? See how keen big mouth Daragh fancies taking on Disney's lawyers.
It's so tight that one game week can be a massive changer.
Oxford being fortunate that they turned a 2-0 loss to a 3-2 win in the 88th min v Shrewsbury last game out.
Without that they'd be out and Pboro in I believe
And if we'd beaten Donny we'd be 2nd
3rd surely? Not ahead of Rotherham's goal difference?
Our PPG would go up to 1.82
BUT, if Bury had been around and we'd played them and lost, we wouldn't even be in the top 6...
I know this is convenient for us, but with all the argument being 3rd on PPG vs 3rd on weighted PPG, let's just have a "PPG playoff final" at Wembley versus Oxford. One game to prepare for. There is no way Peterborough can get third no matter how they dice it.
I could take losing a League One play-off final because it's ridiculous to think we could even be in one, but not to that lot.
I hear you, but I strongly believe we would win. Bayo has a score to settle!
I am willing to bet that Gaz and the team’s work through lockdown mean our players are the best prepared psychologically for a return and as well prepared physically as any. With that in mind, if the plan ends up being a ‘winner takes it all’ match between us and Oxford at Wembley I’ll have a tenner on us winning it 3-1 with Bayo to score.
That would be something to celebrate, wouldn't it @Manboobs?
Fixing that sneak Mousinho and putting one to them in the play off final would be about as superb an ending as we could have in the circumstances.
On weighted PPG, play-offs would be Oxford v Wycombe and Fleetwood v Peterborough.
If you open up lockdown, hospitals will be totally overrun and out of control so they won’t be able to go anyway.
I wonder if a different playoff system including potentially relegated teams is being considered? That would at least give them a fighting chance to stay up.
Can only see this if clubs won't accept the normal number of relegations from each division and at that point all bets are off as it descends into farce and messy arguments