I’m not a Boris cheerleader. It is all fully documented that UK and Sweden (later praised by WHO) were outliers. Unfortunately he panicked when IC’s projections became known.
I believe lockdown is already indirectly causing more deaths than COV-19.
Even Prof Ferguson thinks 30%-50% are from people dying from other things because healthcare is overloaded or people are more reluctant to go to hospital.
50% on the official ONS numbers. However when COV-19 attributed deaths reviewed by the Italians it was lower. Therefore could well be more excess deaths as a result of other causes.
Would I be right in saying that @Onlooker is the same Gasroom member posting David Icke videos that @Chris keeps removing? Happy to be deleted if I'm wrong, but if that's the case then I'm not sure anything you've posted here can be treated with even a pinch of trust.
People with 20-30 years of life expectancy are dying as we duly follow guidelines put in place to protect those with a fraction of that who it ought to be perfectly possible to shield without the measures.
@Onlooker said:
Even Prof Ferguson thinks 30%-50% are from people dying from other things because healthcare is overloaded or people are more reluctant to go to hospital.
The idiot that said up to 200 million could die from bird flu, eventually 282 people died. The same idiot that said swine flu would kill 65,000 people, 457 actually died.
Anyway apologies for hijacking the thread. Please read the government’s plan to rebuild and do reach out to your GP if you have any health concerns. I’m sorry if my earlier posts offended anyone.
@Onlooker said:
I’m not a Boris cheerleader. It is all fully documented that UK and Sweden (later praised by WHO) were outliers. Unfortunately he panicked when IC’s projections became known.
I believe lockdown is already indirectly causing more deaths than COV-19.
Sweden have since apologised for letting down the elderly in care homes.
@Onlooker said:
Anyway apologies for hijacking the thread. Please read the government’s plan to rebuild and do reach out to your GP if you have any health concerns. I’m sorry if my earlier posts offended anyone.
That last one you posted compared death rates of non contagious conditions against this super contagious one.
Simply a bizarre comparison.
Championship plays out from June 6 (presumably behind closed doors)
League 1/2 end
Promotion/relegation continues
Leagues decided on points per game - not clear yet whether straight PPG or weighted.
Playoffs to continue (presumably behind closed doors)
By my reckoning if straight PPG - we play Fleetwood, oxford play Portsmouth. Peterborough miss out
If weighted PPG - we play Oxford, Peterborough play Fleetwood, Portsmouth miss out.
The ons figures as of may 1st had excess deaths at 50k when listed corona virus deaths were at around 30k. Now I know everyone who disagrees with lockdown suddenly knows of a coroner who wrote down the wrong cause of death to boost the figures, but with our lack of testing, it's much more likely deaths with covid will be underreported as we're simply not looking.
Unless you honestly think that it's acceptable to condemn around a million people to their death by going for herd immunity, then the only way out is drastically reducing numbers, increasing testing and tracing. That way we don't all have to be in lockdown which is undoubtedly harmful to many.
What is your plan in a few weeks when case numbers jump again and hospitals start filling up?
@Onlooker said:
Anyway apologies for hijacking the thread. Please read the government’s plan to rebuild and do reach out to your GP if you have any health concerns. I’m sorry if my earlier posts offended anyone.
That last one you posted compared death rates of non contagious conditions against this super contagious one.
Simply a bizarre comparison.
Sorry, yes I acknowledge that and realise it was insensitive and bizarre. I was merely trying to put into perspective as we have endured pandemics in the past without such draconian measures on an almost global scale.
Oxford forum says ESPN are reporting that as well.
One Oxford half wit says
"No real solution unfortunately. One thing though, if Wycombe end up getting promoted from 8th it will be a massive travesty. As long as that doesn't happen, then I'll accept whatever solution we end up with."
@Shev I know you have an account on there, can you point out to this fool, that it's the sheer luck of them scraping an 88th min winner against 10men Shrewsbury last game out that even has them in the playoff zone?
Whilst we were punished by the lotto of having no game that weekend and a mere draw from our game in hand from being in it.
For him to be so dismissive shows a genuine lack of thinking.
Playoffs sound a decent solution,
You avoid the logistical impossibility of getting 23 teams to play out 9-10 rounds and instead having 4 teams, playing 3 games between them - presuming that it's single games instead of 2 legs.
If the above happened though, they're basically transferring the scuffle from Oxford v Wycombe for going up, to Peterborough v Portsmouth for the last play off place.
As there can't surely be anyway they can stitch us up out of it!
Agreed @Malone , and I'm not totally convinced of the "sporting integrity" of the outcome of single play off matches involving two non match fit sides in front of an empty ground compared to judging it on 3/4 of a proper season
The ons figures as of may 1st had excess deaths at 50k when listed corona virus deaths were at around 30k. Now I know everyone who disagrees with lockdown suddenly knows of a coroner who wrote down the wrong cause of death to boost the figures, but with our lack of testing, it's much more likely deaths with covid will be underreported as we're simply not looking.
Unless you honestly think that it's acceptable to condemn around a million people to their death by going for herd immunity, then the only way out is drastically reducing numbers, increasing testing and tracing. That way we don't all have to be in lockdown which is undoubtedly harmful to many.
What is your plan in a few weeks when case numbers jump again and hospitals start filling up?
I believe the numbers now may be closer, even if all causes of death stand. Good point re under reporting but that can work both ways. If we have a spike that threatens to overwhelm the NHS then I would support locking down again of course. However, if the elderly and vulnerable continue to shield I hope it won’t happen. Most of us will get it and recover without needing hospital treatment.
Comments
I’m not a Boris cheerleader. It is all fully documented that UK and Sweden (later praised by WHO) were outliers. Unfortunately he panicked when IC’s projections became known.
I believe lockdown is already indirectly causing more deaths than COV-19.
What evidence is that based on?
It’s just an opinion based on the number of excess deaths. The evidence of those deaths is in the ONS statistics published regularly.
None
People seem not be be seeking help if they have medical conditions.
Even Prof Ferguson thinks 30%-50% are from people dying from other things because healthcare is overloaded or people are more reluctant to go to hospital.
50% on the official ONS numbers. However when COV-19 attributed deaths reviewed by the Italians it was lower. Therefore could well be more excess deaths as a result of other causes.
Not really an opinion thing mate
Would I be right in saying that @Onlooker is the same Gasroom member posting David Icke videos that @Chris keeps removing? Happy to be deleted if I'm wrong, but if that's the case then I'm not sure anything you've posted here can be treated with even a pinch of trust.
Sorry yes that was me. Apologies.
People with 20-30 years of life expectancy are dying as we duly follow guidelines put in place to protect those with a fraction of that who it ought to be perfectly possible to shield without the measures.
It’s something the government should be taking into account in my view. I was merely saying no one knows at this stage. Maybe they are all COV-19.
Or maybe we just have a massively unhealthy population
BAME also a factor plus pre-existing conditions/obesity etc.
The idiot that said up to 200 million could die from bird flu, eventually 282 people died. The same idiot that said swine flu would kill 65,000 people, 457 actually died.
He did indeed. Goodness knows why he was on SAGE.
Anyway apologies for hijacking the thread. Please read the government’s plan to rebuild and do reach out to your GP if you have any health concerns. I’m sorry if my earlier posts offended anyone.
You weren't saying no-one knows.
You said "I believe lockdown is already indirectly causing more deaths than COV-19."
Sweden have since apologised for letting down the elderly in care homes.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8297463/amp/Sweden-admits-big-failure-prevent-elderly-deaths-coronavirus.html
I even linked the Mail for you.
I’d like to see the source of WHO praising the Swedish strategy please.
I believe but I don’t know for sure.
That last one you posted compared death rates of non contagious conditions against this super contagious one.
Simply a bizarre comparison.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sweden-is-a-model-for-the-new-coronavirus-normal-says-who-dd8fgw7d0
Agree on care homes - something of a disgrace here too
Daily Mirror reporting outcome of EFL Board Meeting today.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/championship-season-set-resume-before-22022838
IF TRUE (massive capital letters)
Championship plays out from June 6 (presumably behind closed doors)
League 1/2 end
Promotion/relegation continues
Leagues decided on points per game - not clear yet whether straight PPG or weighted.
Playoffs to continue (presumably behind closed doors)
By my reckoning if straight PPG - we play Fleetwood, oxford play Portsmouth. Peterborough miss out
If weighted PPG - we play Oxford, Peterborough play Fleetwood, Portsmouth miss out.
Wow
" I believe"
Sorry, but your talking a whole heap of nonsense.
The ons figures as of may 1st had excess deaths at 50k when listed corona virus deaths were at around 30k. Now I know everyone who disagrees with lockdown suddenly knows of a coroner who wrote down the wrong cause of death to boost the figures, but with our lack of testing, it's much more likely deaths with covid will be underreported as we're simply not looking.
Unless you honestly think that it's acceptable to condemn around a million people to their death by going for herd immunity, then the only way out is drastically reducing numbers, increasing testing and tracing. That way we don't all have to be in lockdown which is undoubtedly harmful to many.
What is your plan in a few weeks when case numbers jump again and hospitals start filling up?
Sorry, yes I acknowledge that and realise it was insensitive and bizarre. I was merely trying to put into perspective as we have endured pandemics in the past without such draconian measures on an almost global scale.
Oxford forum says ESPN are reporting that as well.
One Oxford half wit says
"No real solution unfortunately. One thing though, if Wycombe end up getting promoted from 8th it will be a massive travesty. As long as that doesn't happen, then I'll accept whatever solution we end up with."
@Shev I know you have an account on there, can you point out to this fool, that it's the sheer luck of them scraping an 88th min winner against 10men Shrewsbury last game out that even has them in the playoff zone?
Whilst we were punished by the lotto of having no game that weekend and a mere draw from our game in hand from being in it.
For him to be so dismissive shows a genuine lack of thinking.
Playoffs sound a decent solution,
You avoid the logistical impossibility of getting 23 teams to play out 9-10 rounds and instead having 4 teams, playing 3 games between them - presuming that it's single games instead of 2 legs.
That solution sounds sensible enough if the games can be safely played.
A week ago I would have been far more confident of that being the case, but fingers crossed!
If the above happened though, they're basically transferring the scuffle from Oxford v Wycombe for going up, to Peterborough v Portsmouth for the last play off place.
As there can't surely be anyway they can stitch us up out of it!
Agreed @Malone , and I'm not totally convinced of the "sporting integrity" of the outcome of single play off matches involving two non match fit sides in front of an empty ground compared to judging it on 3/4 of a proper season
I believe the numbers now may be closer, even if all causes of death stand. Good point re under reporting but that can work both ways. If we have a spike that threatens to overwhelm the NHS then I would support locking down again of course. However, if the elderly and vulnerable continue to shield I hope it won’t happen. Most of us will get it and recover without needing hospital treatment.
And Prof Ferguson’s model only maxed out at 500k