You are perfectly entitled to your views, but can we just stick to the facts? The PM is not employed by any newspaper and he was elected as leader of the Conservative party by its members, not by the general public. He became PM because the country overwhelmingly favoured his party to form a government over any others.
Wouldn't describe 29% of the electorate as overwhelming myself
So how would you describe 43.6% of the vote, the largest percentage for any party for 40 years?
I'd put some of it down to the Tory old guard getting the vote out and Labour being heavily split. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, Without prejudice I get the reasons why people didn't want to vote Corbyn, I almost get reasons why some people feel they should vote Tory over and over. I understand less why people are so keenly pro Boris despite his long history of laziness, cock ups, incompetence and lying. I also think I understand why he wants the job, and also why he can't really be bothered to do it but we can all have our opinions.
Getting back to the subject a bit I don't think anything he said today particularly affects footy other than if people were hoping he was going to unlock further. Maybe you could take the push to get people back to work where at all possible to include footballers.
The Minister for the Union is a position created by Boris Johnson during his first ministry,to be held concurrently with his duties as Prime Minister. Johnson proposed the position during the 2019 Conservative Party leadership campaign.The office is intended to emphasise Johnson's commitment to strengthening the bond between the countries of the United Kingdom. He is the first Prime Minister to adopt the title.
Doesn’t seem to have done much on this front with his latest approach. A cynic might even think he’d be happy to see a split.
They keep trying to evoke the "spirit of the blitz" and other nonsense war time language that their faithful followers lap up in place of an actual plan, but the truth is, if we were at war, this inexcusable lack of preparation and instruction wouldn't be accepted and there'd be calls for them to go as the unnecessary casualty list grows.
It's equivalent of being told you were going to have a war, actively running down your supply of armour, then sending your soldiers to the front line without the right equipment with the plan of "be careful, but also stay alert, good luck"
Remember everyone stay alert for this microscopic virus, and if your boss tells you it's safe when it plainly isn't, your job is more important than your health
@Username - I think the problem is not necessarily the Government per se, but the incompetent lying leader sadly appointed by grass roots Tories. It has been widely reported that there is considerable disunity within the Cabinet over managing the crisis and hopefully the more sensible individuals like Dominic Raab can knock some sense into this clown.
Whilst I have always disliked Nicola Sturgeon, she does at least have leadership qualities something which sadly this country lacks at the moment.
Agreed Sturgeon has been far more precise and transparent with her information.
The Railway Tocs and Trade Unions had been in delicate negotiations on how to slowly and safely increase the capacity later this month.
Then Boris comes out with this incoherent folly after not informing either bodies and panic has set in.
@carrickblue said:
The Minister for the Union is a position created by Boris Johnson during his first ministry,to be held concurrently with his duties as Prime Minister. Johnson proposed the position during the 2019 Conservative Party leadership campaign.The office is intended to emphasise Johnson's commitment to strengthening the bond between the countries of the United Kingdom. He is the first Prime Minister to adopt the title.
Doesn’t seem to have done much on this front with his latest approach. A cynic might even think he’d be happy to see a split.
You don’t need to be a cynic to realise that Nicole Sturgeon wants a split and has been actively campaigning for one.
Of course Sturgeon wants Scotland to split from the UK. It has been the express policy, indeed raison d'etre of her party for many years.
She is an impressive leader of her nation along with other countries such as Germany and New Zealand. She brings the pathetic standard of UK political leadership (from both parties) in recent years into sharp contrast.
Starmer may be the first competent one for a while. I wonder if history will see yesterdays omnishambles as the beginning of the inexorable march of Starmer into No 10 as confidence in Johnson evaporates.
I saw a quote from Barack Obama, a leader I’m sure we all admired and respected, that perfectly sums up this Us versus Them argument: ‘What we’re fighting against is these long-term trends in which being tribal, being divided and seeing others as the enemy has become a stronger impulse in life.’ He puts it far more eloquently than I could.
@glasshalffull said:
I saw a quote from Barack Obama, a leader I’m sure we all admired and respected, that perfectly sums up this Us versus Them argument: ‘What we’re fighting against is these long-term trends in which being tribal, being divided and seeing others as the enemy has become a stronger impulse in life.’ He puts it far more eloquently than I could.
Got another quote from Obama, he called the US handling of the pandemic "an absolute chaotic disaster".
When one side of the tribal divide is not based in logic, science or truth, how does the other side bridge that divide if they're not willing to learn (they see it as indoctrination and only trust their own bullshit perpetuating sources)
I've had enough of pussyfooting around these people and there views being allowed to circulate in the interest of free speech. There aren't "opinions" on matters of science fact. These people need to be outright ridiculed and ostracised.
I fully understand the desire to criticise the government and I think some of their actions and words have been seriously wrong, but much of the criticism is motivated simply by hatred of the Conservative party.
@Username said:
At what point does a government become untenable?
They keep trying to evoke the "spirit of the blitz" and other nonsense war time language that their faithful followers lap up in place of an actual plan, but the truth is, if we were at war, this inexcusable lack of preparation and instruction wouldn't be accepted and there'd be calls for them to go as the unnecessary casualty list grows.
It's equivalent of being told you were going to have a war, actively running down your supply of armour, then sending your soldiers to the front line without the right equipment with the plan of "be careful, but also stay alert, good luck"
Remember everyone stay alert for this microscopic virus, and if your boss tells you it's safe when it plainly isn't, your job is more important than your health
The endless comparisons to the blitz and war time spirit is the most embarrassing rhetoric from a government I can ever remember.
People who think being forced to sit inside for a bit, watching TV and browsing the internet in any way equates to having your cities bombed, your relatives not coming home from warfare in Europe and food rationing they're absolute cretins of the first water.
@glasshalffull said:
I saw a quote from Barack Obama, a leader I’m sure we all admired and respected, that perfectly sums up this Us versus Them argument: ‘What we’re fighting against is these long-term trends in which being tribal, being divided and seeing others as the enemy has become a stronger impulse in life.’ He puts it far more eloquently than I could.
I think the tribal divide was very much engineered by that witch from Grantham.
When she uttered the poison about sons and Grandsons of people who only 40 years earlier had been fighting the nazi's. Those Gallant miners who were fighting to save their jobs, community and way of life, were described as 'The enemy within' by Thatcher.
She I'm afraid has done unrepairable damage to this country, and until the Tory grandeur stop revelling in her 'Iron woman's image and start apologising for her wicked deeds, then the divisions will remain as large as ever.
Whilst I generally agree with your sentiments here Chas, I know out of a choice of Maggie and Boris who I would prefer leading the country at the moment and it wouldn't be the one that rides a bike!
I think the tribal divide was very much engineered by that witch from Grantham.
When she uttered the poison about sons and Grandsons of people who only 40 years earlier had been fighting the nazi's. Those Gallant miners who were fighting to save their jobs, community and way of life, were described as 'The enemy within' by Thatcher.
She I'm afraid has done unrepairable damage to this country, and until the Tory grandeur stop revelling in her 'Iron woman's image and start apologising for her wicked deeds, then the divisions will remain as large as ever.
Chas, I respect your right to choose sides in this debate but you’re talking about a politician who relinquished power 30 years ago and who died seven years ago. What relevance does she have to the present day Tory party?
Incidentally, the left doesn’t have exclusive rights to the moral high ground as there were plenty who openly celebrated Thatcher’s death and indeed we’ve seen prominent leftist figures publicly saying that they wished Boris Johnson had died during this current crisis.
I think the tribal divide was very much engineered by that witch from Grantham.
When she uttered the poison about sons and Grandsons of people who only 40 years earlier had been fighting the nazi's. Those Gallant miners who were fighting to save their jobs, community and way of life, were described as 'The enemy within' by Thatcher.
She I'm afraid has done unrepairable damage to this country, and until the Tory grandeur stop revelling in her 'Iron woman's image and start apologising for her wicked deeds, then the divisions will remain as large as ever.
Chas, I respect your right to choose sides in this debate but you’re talking about a politician who relinquished power 30 years ago and who died seven years ago. What relevance does she have to the present day Tory party?
Incidentally, the left doesn’t have exclusive rights to the moral high ground as there were plenty who openly celebrated Thatcher’s death and indeed we’ve seen prominent leftist figures publicly saying that they wished Boris Johnson had died during this current crisis.
I'm talking about the division that Thatcher created in this country, where the inbred hatred of her and her policies are still relevant in society.
And no I shed no tears at her death, the only regret was she wasnt returned to what other planet she hatched out of, many years earlier.
Not sure I have seen prominent leftist figures publically saying they wished Johnson had died, @glasshalffull . Could you provide details. Anyone who has is clearly moronic.
I agree with you about excessive tribalism and I for one although naturally centre left resolved to put party politics to one side during this crisis. I fully understand that politicians are just human , no one could really be fully prepared for a crisis of this nature and mistakes would inevitably be made.
That said I have been shocked by some of the gaffes that this Government has made and was particularly appalled at the vagueness of yesterdays announcements. I spent much of yesterday evening explaining to staff currently working from home or furloughed that they were not expected at work this morning as a direct result of the confusion the PM caused.
While naturally not a Tory, and certainly not a supporter of the current populist strand, my ever decreasing confidence in the way this Government is handling this crisis is based on the bumbling shambolic nature of their response (coupled with not infrequent bare faced lies) rather than party loyalties.
@glasshalffull
You are asserting there is moral equivalence between the strategy of Thatcher and the impact of the policies on the mining communities etc to the few incidents of people celebrating her demise.
Tell me, what harm was caused by those celebrating her death? I agree it was on poor taste, but this really is false equivalence.
Depends what you call ‘serious’. Steve Hedley, assistant general secretary of the RMT Union, now suspended by the union. Miriam Margolyes, lifelong Labour Party member, much loved by the BBC.
Comments
I'd put some of it down to the Tory old guard getting the vote out and Labour being heavily split. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, Without prejudice I get the reasons why people didn't want to vote Corbyn, I almost get reasons why some people feel they should vote Tory over and over. I understand less why people are so keenly pro Boris despite his long history of laziness, cock ups, incompetence and lying. I also think I understand why he wants the job, and also why he can't really be bothered to do it but we can all have our opinions.
Getting back to the subject a bit I don't think anything he said today particularly affects footy other than if people were hoping he was going to unlock further. Maybe you could take the push to get people back to work where at all possible to include footballers.
That is your opinion but nevertheless it was the system that was in place at the time.
Agreed, I just can't agree that an overwhelming majority of the country voted him in. They quite clearly didn't
The Minister for the Union is a position created by Boris Johnson during his first ministry,to be held concurrently with his duties as Prime Minister. Johnson proposed the position during the 2019 Conservative Party leadership campaign.The office is intended to emphasise Johnson's commitment to strengthening the bond between the countries of the United Kingdom. He is the first Prime Minister to adopt the title.
Doesn’t seem to have done much on this front with his latest approach. A cynic might even think he’d be happy to see a split.
At what point does a government become untenable?
They keep trying to evoke the "spirit of the blitz" and other nonsense war time language that their faithful followers lap up in place of an actual plan, but the truth is, if we were at war, this inexcusable lack of preparation and instruction wouldn't be accepted and there'd be calls for them to go as the unnecessary casualty list grows.
It's equivalent of being told you were going to have a war, actively running down your supply of armour, then sending your soldiers to the front line without the right equipment with the plan of "be careful, but also stay alert, good luck"
Remember everyone stay alert for this microscopic virus, and if your boss tells you it's safe when it plainly isn't, your job is more important than your health
@Username - I think the problem is not necessarily the Government per se, but the incompetent lying leader sadly appointed by grass roots Tories. It has been widely reported that there is considerable disunity within the Cabinet over managing the crisis and hopefully the more sensible individuals like Dominic Raab can knock some sense into this clown.
Whilst I have always disliked Nicola Sturgeon, she does at least have leadership qualities something which sadly this country lacks at the moment.
Because it's time to think about what you want in your packed lunch
Agreed Sturgeon has been far more precise and transparent with her information.
The Railway Tocs and Trade Unions had been in delicate negotiations on how to slowly and safely increase the capacity later this month.
Then Boris comes out with this incoherent folly after not informing either bodies and panic has set in.
You don’t need to be a cynic to realise that Nicole Sturgeon wants a split and has been actively campaigning for one.
You don’t need to be a genius to see who has come out of this looking better, Johnson or Sturgeon.
Johnson sees himself as officer class, with every right to hold a tea party while sending the proles over the trench. That's what poor people are for.
Of course Sturgeon wants Scotland to split from the UK. It has been the express policy, indeed raison d'etre of her party for many years.
She is an impressive leader of her nation along with other countries such as Germany and New Zealand. She brings the pathetic standard of UK political leadership (from both parties) in recent years into sharp contrast.
Starmer may be the first competent one for a while. I wonder if history will see yesterdays omnishambles as the beginning of the inexorable march of Starmer into No 10 as confidence in Johnson evaporates.
I saw a quote from Barack Obama, a leader I’m sure we all admired and respected, that perfectly sums up this Us versus Them argument: ‘What we’re fighting against is these long-term trends in which being tribal, being divided and seeing others as the enemy has become a stronger impulse in life.’ He puts it far more eloquently than I could.
But he very much didn’t mean ‘don’t criticise the government’ considering his recent comments about the US response to Coronavirus.
Got another quote from Obama, he called the US handling of the pandemic "an absolute chaotic disaster".
When one side of the tribal divide is not based in logic, science or truth, how does the other side bridge that divide if they're not willing to learn (they see it as indoctrination and only trust their own bullshit perpetuating sources)
I've had enough of pussyfooting around these people and there views being allowed to circulate in the interest of free speech. There aren't "opinions" on matters of science fact. These people need to be outright ridiculed and ostracised.
I fully understand the desire to criticise the government and I think some of their actions and words have been seriously wrong, but much of the criticism is motivated simply by hatred of the Conservative party.
The endless comparisons to the blitz and war time spirit is the most embarrassing rhetoric from a government I can ever remember.
People who think being forced to sit inside for a bit, watching TV and browsing the internet in any way equates to having your cities bombed, your relatives not coming home from warfare in Europe and food rationing they're absolute cretins of the first water.
I think the tribal divide was very much engineered by that witch from Grantham.
When she uttered the poison about sons and Grandsons of people who only 40 years earlier had been fighting the nazi's. Those Gallant miners who were fighting to save their jobs, community and way of life, were described as 'The enemy within' by Thatcher.
She I'm afraid has done unrepairable damage to this country, and until the Tory grandeur stop revelling in her 'Iron woman's image and start apologising for her wicked deeds, then the divisions will remain as large as ever.
Link to David Icke bullshit removed
>
Most ignorant post of the year?
Yep. Pretty idiotic that anyone still follows that thinking this far in
Whilst I generally agree with your sentiments here Chas, I know out of a choice of Maggie and Boris who I would prefer leading the country at the moment and it wouldn't be the one that rides a bike!
Chas, I respect your right to choose sides in this debate but you’re talking about a politician who relinquished power 30 years ago and who died seven years ago. What relevance does she have to the present day Tory party?
Incidentally, the left doesn’t have exclusive rights to the moral high ground as there were plenty who openly celebrated Thatcher’s death and indeed we’ve seen prominent leftist figures publicly saying that they wished Boris Johnson had died during this current crisis.
@glasshalffull name them?
I’ve not seen anyone serious saying they wish Boris had died.
I'm talking about the division that Thatcher created in this country, where the inbred hatred of her and her policies are still relevant in society.
And no I shed no tears at her death, the only regret was she wasnt returned to what other planet she hatched out of, many years earlier.
Not sure I have seen prominent leftist figures publically saying they wished Johnson had died, @glasshalffull . Could you provide details. Anyone who has is clearly moronic.
I agree with you about excessive tribalism and I for one although naturally centre left resolved to put party politics to one side during this crisis. I fully understand that politicians are just human , no one could really be fully prepared for a crisis of this nature and mistakes would inevitably be made.
That said I have been shocked by some of the gaffes that this Government has made and was particularly appalled at the vagueness of yesterdays announcements. I spent much of yesterday evening explaining to staff currently working from home or furloughed that they were not expected at work this morning as a direct result of the confusion the PM caused.
While naturally not a Tory, and certainly not a supporter of the current populist strand, my ever decreasing confidence in the way this Government is handling this crisis is based on the bumbling shambolic nature of their response (coupled with not infrequent bare faced lies) rather than party loyalties.
Blimey, this thread is turning into Who Dares wins!
@glasshalffull
You are asserting there is moral equivalence between the strategy of Thatcher and the impact of the policies on the mining communities etc to the few incidents of people celebrating her demise.
Tell me, what harm was caused by those celebrating her death? I agree it was on poor taste, but this really is false equivalence.
Depends what you call ‘serious’. Steve Hedley, assistant general secretary of the RMT Union, now suspended by the union. Miriam Margolyes, lifelong Labour Party member, much loved by the BBC.