@chairboyscentral said:
The PM has just delivered his latest absolute car crash of a press conference. Still no lockdown. Gently asking people to do better isn't going to cut it.
I have no idea what the policy is now. Perhaps the idea is that every vulnerable person has been identified and they will compliantly stay in whilst supported by hubs, logistically managed by the army, and staffed by the NHS,
Social services and volunteers. This means that the vulnerable won’t get it so those of us who do will just be a bit unwell. And as some of us are practicing social distancing then the spread will be slower and so everything will be OK.
Is that it?
Isn't everyone aged 70 or older vulernable? They've gone very quiet on telling that section of the population to self-isolate.
They seem to have made a real switch between the initial 70+, to now there being 1.5m on their vulnerable list, mostly cancer patients of various types, organ donors, those with immune system issues, and preg women with heart issues.
I suppose they realised they can't really just tell a whole age group to stay in for 3months, as not everyone in that age range is any different a risk to say a 65+ year old. It's all about the shape they're in.
The isolation itself would have a horrible effect, but I thought they'd allow certain contact. I suppose they may still implement it later down the line.
@chairboyscentral said:
The PM has just delivered his latest absolute car crash of a press conference. Still no lockdown. Gently asking people to do better isn't going to cut it.
I have no idea what the policy is now. Perhaps the idea is that every vulnerable person has been identified and they will compliantly stay in whilst supported by hubs, logistically managed by the army, and staffed by the NHS,
Social services and volunteers. This means that the vulnerable won’t get it so those of us who do will just be a bit unwell. And as some of us are practicing social distancing then the spread will be slower and so everything will be OK.
Is that it?
Isn't everyone aged 70 or older vulernable? They've gone very quiet on telling that section of the population to self-isolate.
They seem to have made a real switch between the initial 70+, to now there being 1.5m on their vulnerable list, mostly cancer patients of various types, organ donors, those with immune system issues, and preg women with heart issues.
I suppose they realised they can't really just tell a whole age group to stay in for 3months, as not everyone in that age range is any different a risk to say a 65+ year old. It's all about the shape they're in.
And being politicians they can’t say they’ve had a rethink or changed their minds about a policy. Just don’t mention it and hope we all forget. And remarkably we often do.
@chairboyscentral said:
Get the police on the streets as they are in other countries on or close to complete lockdown - or, perhaps more simply, close non-essential shops, parks (some in London are already closing) etc. and stop giving people places to mingle.
With the police on the streets enforcing any lockdown the result would be an absolute field day for burglars, looters and other criminals.
Au contraire, as everyone is in their house, rather limit their targets. ?. I was thinking only yesterday, that the drug users and their suppliers will also have a tough time in the event of a total lockdown?
We've already realised the nhs has been crippled over the last ten years and asking the coppers who are already struggling to maintain a service 20,000 bodies light to try and police the whole nation would be even more embarrassing for our glorious leaders. But is anyone really surprised the great British public refuse to do as they are asked?
@chairboyscentral said:
Get the police on the streets as they are in other countries on or close to complete lockdown - or, perhaps more simply, close non-essential shops, parks (some in London are already closing) etc. and stop giving people places to mingle.
With the police on the streets enforcing any lockdown the result would be an absolute field day for burglars, looters and other criminals.
Au contraire, as everyone is in their house, rather limit their targets. ?. I was thinking only yesterday, that the drug users and their suppliers will also have a tough time in the event of a total lockdown?
@Wendoverman said:
We've already realised the nhs has been crippled over the last ten years and asking the coppers who are already struggling to maintain a service 20,000 bodies light to try and police the whole nation would be even more embarrassing for our glorious leaders. But is anyone really surprised the great British public refuse to do as they are asked?
I take it as those 1.5m should isolate for 12 weeks, 70+should isolate where possible and the rest of us should isolate as much as possible and everyone employ social distancing if you have to go out into the world. Or did I miss something?
Time to do those decorating and gardening jobs I've been putting off as after tomorrow I'll be unemployed.
If our Great Leader hadn't behaved in such a childish and petulant way last Autumn, and hadn't dismissed the role of 'experts' when it suited him in 2016, he may have come across as more credible now, when asking the population to behave sensibly and listen to the scientists.
The lack of trust in our leaders pre-dates Boris by some distance. The expenses scandal has been suggested as a watershed moment in that regard. The lack of confidence in wider authority such as the police is also down to evidence that they are not always up-holding the law as it is intended. And there are plenty of people who routinely ignore warnings as not being for them - see essential travel during transport disruption or health warnings about tobacco and alcohol. Throw into the mix a new phenomena not experienced in our lifetimes and you can see why it gets difficult. I'll stop walking now, even though I was doing it responsibly, and it will have side effects on my mental and physical health.
Is stopping walking sensible though @Baldric, if the end result is you ending up with mental or physical illness that needs urgent treatment thus putting more strain on the NHS.
I accept it is a difficult balancing act but (assuming the experts are right) if you keep the specified distance from fellow walkers that is surely the best option.
It is indeed a balancing act - the physical risks are small, though I'd only just walked myself back into the sort of fitness I am happy with and was looking forward to a summer building up the distance, and I'll just have to find other ways to preserve my sanity. Not sure laps of the garden will work the same way. I think there are a number of keen walkers who are feeling this is the right course simply because those less responsible don't get it. Obviously this is not the same as no longer having a short walk for exercise, though that's never really been the way I've done things it will just have to do for now.
Can't quite work out how to edit previous post - but I'm not suggesting people should stop walking if that's the preferred form of exercise, just that longer hikes might have to be put on hold. Still if we go on lockdown, the casual circuit of the Rye might be questioned.
The problem with Boris and co is that they made not listening to experts and their 'Project Fear' a major plank of their policy and attitude during the Brexit campaign and afterwards. He even said I'm not a doomsayer early in the present crisis. I can quite believe the Cummings cabinet decided on the calculated risk of 'herd immunity' and decided the cost in the lives of vulnerable people was regrettable but acceptable in order to keep business bobbing along. The situation however has raised issues about the state of the NHS and the police force (seriously damaged by previous Home and Health Secretaries) to cope in times of national crisis, as well as revealing for those who were not aware that we have a sizeable population of cockwombles. We are isolating and lukcy to be able to work from home as my daughter is at risk, but still taking the odd stroll. I hope all Gasroomers return hale and hearty for the restart of our promotion season! Keep well all.
I assume this is people who have no option other than to travel into work, but either way it's no surprise London is so far ahead of the rest of country. A packed Tube is hell at the best of times.
Do you honestly believe those figures @Shev. China for instance with a population of one and a half billion has only registered 81,000 cases. The UK due to lack of testing, has no idea whatsoever how many have/had the virus or indeed how many have recovered from it.
Unfortunately the message is still vague, Bojo really didn't get where he is today by focusing on details, and also "key workers" seems to be widening, lots of people in London work for companies involved in the delivery of key services and many of those companies still require people to come in.
I would doubt any figures out of China, Iran and Russia for political propaganda reasons (though the fact the first two had to admit it suggests it was far more damaging than even the figures they had to give out). Most pleasing was the powerful Iranian cleric who claimed it was all fear mongering and he was protected by God on telly and died of it two days later. Iran and Russia still trying to claim it's a Western plot though.
Comments
They seem to have made a real switch between the initial 70+, to now there being 1.5m on their vulnerable list, mostly cancer patients of various types, organ donors, those with immune system issues, and preg women with heart issues.
I suppose they realised they can't really just tell a whole age group to stay in for 3months, as not everyone in that age range is any different a risk to say a 65+ year old. It's all about the shape they're in.
The isolation itself would have a horrible effect, but I thought they'd allow certain contact. I suppose they may still implement it later down the line.
And being politicians they can’t say they’ve had a rethink or changed their minds about a policy. Just don’t mention it and hope we all forget. And remarkably we often do.
Au contraire, as everyone is in their house, rather limit their targets. ?. I was thinking only yesterday, that the drug users and their suppliers will also have a tough time in the event of a total lockdown?
We've already realised the nhs has been crippled over the last ten years and asking the coppers who are already struggling to maintain a service 20,000 bodies light to try and police the whole nation would be even more embarrassing for our glorious leaders. But is anyone really surprised the great British public refuse to do as they are asked?
I was thinking more shops, pubs, factories etc.
And the police aren't immune to the virus!
I take it as those 1.5m should isolate for 12 weeks, 70+should isolate where possible and the rest of us should isolate as much as possible and everyone employ social distancing if you have to go out into the world. Or did I miss something?
Time to do those decorating and gardening jobs I've been putting off as after tomorrow I'll be unemployed.
If our Great Leader hadn't behaved in such a childish and petulant way last Autumn, and hadn't dismissed the role of 'experts' when it suited him in 2016, he may have come across as more credible now, when asking the population to behave sensibly and listen to the scientists.
Bumbling Boris knows best and the rest of the world and their scientific and medical advisors know sweet FA.
Dev awfully quiet on Boris’ huge backtrack.
I> @OxfordBlue said:
I’m not sure there is any need for poking sticks at other posters. I hope all is well with @DevC
We need to allow people space to change their minds otherwise we encourage them to remain entrenched.
The lack of trust in our leaders pre-dates Boris by some distance. The expenses scandal has been suggested as a watershed moment in that regard. The lack of confidence in wider authority such as the police is also down to evidence that they are not always up-holding the law as it is intended. And there are plenty of people who routinely ignore warnings as not being for them - see essential travel during transport disruption or health warnings about tobacco and alcohol. Throw into the mix a new phenomena not experienced in our lifetimes and you can see why it gets difficult. I'll stop walking now, even though I was doing it responsibly, and it will have side effects on my mental and physical health.
Is stopping walking sensible though @Baldric, if the end result is you ending up with mental or physical illness that needs urgent treatment thus putting more strain on the NHS.
I accept it is a difficult balancing act but (assuming the experts are right) if you keep the specified distance from fellow walkers that is surely the best option.
It is indeed a balancing act - the physical risks are small, though I'd only just walked myself back into the sort of fitness I am happy with and was looking forward to a summer building up the distance, and I'll just have to find other ways to preserve my sanity. Not sure laps of the garden will work the same way. I think there are a number of keen walkers who are feeling this is the right course simply because those less responsible don't get it. Obviously this is not the same as no longer having a short walk for exercise, though that's never really been the way I've done things it will just have to do for now.
Can't quite work out how to edit previous post - but I'm not suggesting people should stop walking if that's the preferred form of exercise, just that longer hikes might have to be put on hold. Still if we go on lockdown, the casual circuit of the Rye might be questioned.
ah the edited version appeared after all. apologies for the repetiton
The problem with Boris and co is that they made not listening to experts and their 'Project Fear' a major plank of their policy and attitude during the Brexit campaign and afterwards. He even said I'm not a doomsayer early in the present crisis. I can quite believe the Cummings cabinet decided on the calculated risk of 'herd immunity' and decided the cost in the lives of vulnerable people was regrettable but acceptable in order to keep business bobbing along. The situation however has raised issues about the state of the NHS and the police force (seriously damaged by previous Home and Health Secretaries) to cope in times of national crisis, as well as revealing for those who were not aware that we have a sizeable population of cockwombles. We are isolating and lukcy to be able to work from home as my daughter is at risk, but still taking the odd stroll. I hope all Gasroomers return hale and hearty for the restart of our promotion season! Keep well all.
I assume this is people who have no option other than to travel into work, but either way it's no surprise London is so far ahead of the rest of country. A packed Tube is hell at the best of times.
Italy's death rate is down for the second day in a row, dropping from 793 to 602 per day over those two days.
Too early to know for sure if it is a trend, but there is some hope, anyway.
I think probably a total isolation order here is pretty imminent
Do you honestly believe those figures @Shev. China for instance with a population of one and a half billion has only registered 81,000 cases. The UK due to lack of testing, has no idea whatsoever how many have/had the virus or indeed how many have recovered from it.
Without wanting to be morbid, it’s easier to count deaths.
@mooneyman - I referred to death totals, not cases. I agree cases are impossible to know accurately, but deaths should be more cut and dried.
Unfortunately the message is still vague, Bojo really didn't get where he is today by focusing on details, and also "key workers" seems to be widening, lots of people in London work for companies involved in the delivery of key services and many of those companies still require people to come in.
I should also add I don't trust any numbers out of China, but Italy should be more trustworthy.
He's doing his address at 8:30 tonight, lockdown incoming I suspect.
The rapid increase in Spanish and Swiss figures is particularly frightening. However I fear India could be the worst of all, if it takes hold there.
It is feared that India will become the next hotspot - and social distancing there will be nigh on impossible.
I would doubt any figures out of China, Iran and Russia for political propaganda reasons (though the fact the first two had to admit it suggests it was far more damaging than even the figures they had to give out). Most pleasing was the powerful Iranian cleric who claimed it was all fear mongering and he was protected by God on telly and died of it two days later. Iran and Russia still trying to claim it's a Western plot though.