I think as has been pointed out, there will always be unfortunate accidents but most people know if things are accidental, from ignorance, etc etc rather than malice and deal with it as such. I recall an ex's Dad saying to me 'You can't even say wog anymore...' and I said - if course you can but why would you when you know it offends people...it's like me being outraged that I cannot come in point at your wife and ask you 'How's your bitch doing...?' without you getting offended.
@Wendoverman said:
I think as has been pointed out, there will always be unfortunate accidents but most people know if things are accidental, from ignorance, etc etc rather than malice and deal with it as such. I recall an ex's Dad saying to me 'You can't even say wog anymore...' and I said - if course you can but why would you when you know it offends people...it's like me being outraged that I cannot come in point at your wife and ask you 'How's your bitch doing...?' without you getting offended.
100% agree for words that are blatantly offensive such as your example, it's phrases that fall into the grey area where some people take offence and some don't that it's harder to use that argument. If 1/100 of the relevant group are offended is it still wrong? 10? 50?
In general though the type of thing I've just said is usually used by complete **** to justify being outright racist or whatever -ist tripe they want to spread, which stops genuine debate
@micra said:
I give an even older guy a lift to home games and he occasionally describes players as “coloured”. That rankles with me because I always feel that people using “coloured” are doing it deliberately, not necessarily to cause offence but without any consideration or knowledge even of what is currently acceptable. Then I’ll hear a black person referring to ‘people of colour’ and I wind up feeling confused.
At my retirement lunch 25 years ago I was mortified to hear my sister-in-law (also even older than me) ask one of my black colleagues whether he preferred to be described as coloured or black. Another black colleague, on a separate occasion, remarked that if anyone should be described as coloured it was white people because they went red with embarrassment, blue with cold, green with envy (not sure about that one!) and yellow with fever (?).
Yes, the irony is that black is actually the absence of colour!
@Username I get you. I think there are actually very few phrases for which there is a grey area...but yes you will always offend someone about something.
Very disappointing there's been no word from Tranmere on the booing and taunting of Allsop. It's quite clear what it was about. We'll get nowhere if that kind of attitude is allowed to persist.
There was a Tranmere fan on the bus after the game gloating about how much they gave it to Allsop after "what he did" , mind you be did look like a cross between Jabba the Hut and an egg, with the IQ of the egg, so probably not representative of most of their fans.
I'm sure their keeper ran over to the bench/ref yesterday delaying a restart for ages. I wondered at the time if that was a tit for tat complaint about our fans for something!
The chapter in Close Quarters was a good read on this. And also the fact it claims that the sub-editor of the Matthew Syed article in The Times praising him for raising it chose to use a picture of him in a pink strip he hadn't worn for two seasons. News UK, eh? I must admit I would not like to be constantly called a '****ing nonce' for 90 minutes. Seems the fellow was by one of the TV cameras as well...so a clever one.
Just read that bit - one of the best chapters so far. i really like the way Harman focuses on one individual each chapter instead of simply making it a chronological recount of the season. So many great insights into the various characters at the club - their role, motivation, fears etc.
Comments
I think as has been pointed out, there will always be unfortunate accidents but most people know if things are accidental, from ignorance, etc etc rather than malice and deal with it as such. I recall an ex's Dad saying to me 'You can't even say wog anymore...' and I said - if course you can but why would you when you know it offends people...it's like me being outraged that I cannot come in point at your wife and ask you 'How's your bitch doing...?' without you getting offended.
@DevC I agreed with some of what John Barnes said about Liam Neeson, but I very much disagree on the Silva example.
100% agree for words that are blatantly offensive such as your example, it's phrases that fall into the grey area where some people take offence and some don't that it's harder to use that argument. If 1/100 of the relevant group are offended is it still wrong? 10? 50?
In general though the type of thing I've just said is usually used by complete **** to justify being outright racist or whatever -ist tripe they want to spread, which stops genuine debate
Yes, the irony is that black is actually the absence of colour!
@Username I get you. I think there are actually very few phrases for which there is a grey area...but yes you will always offend someone about something.
I do agree that the promotion of the term 'people of colour' does seem strange, considering coloured is not OK.
I think it is this type of thing which can validly be seen to be confusing, especially for older people.
Thought the booing of Allsop from Tranmere fans tonight was an embarrassment
Yes totally. I have lost a lot of respect for Tranmere. Good luck to them with the cup run though.
Nah, hope Chichester beat them now TBH
At the end of the day I think it's whatever the people it effects want it to be @OxfordBlue not for anyone else to understand.
Very disappointing there's been no word from Tranmere on the booing and taunting of Allsop. It's quite clear what it was about. We'll get nowhere if that kind of attitude is allowed to persist.
Keepers always get booed, and fans will always believe they were "unfairly" targeted, even when someone was arrested/singled out.
ps, that shout when keeper's boot it, I always thought was "you're sh!T, ahhhh"
But then listening to a Peter Crouch podcast, he said it's "bullsh!T...ahhhh"
Have i got this wrong for 30 years?! Or has he?
They do, but it's a bit of a coincidence that it followed the earlier chanting...
There was a Tranmere fan on the bus after the game gloating about how much they gave it to Allsop after "what he did" , mind you be did look like a cross between Jabba the Hut and an egg, with the IQ of the egg, so probably not representative of most of their fans.
I thought the same as you!
It's you're sh!t...
Players don't know anything.
Goalkeeper getting booed or abused by opposition fans behind their goal? Never heard of that before.
I'm sure their keeper ran over to the bench/ref yesterday delaying a restart for ages. I wondered at the time if that was a tit for tat complaint about our fans for something!
I totally agree, but it doesn't make it any less confusing or hard to keep up with.
Preach it ! I was brought up in the 1970s and have a millennial in the house....we've changed the carpet for eggshells!!
The chapter in Close Quarters was a good read on this. And also the fact it claims that the sub-editor of the Matthew Syed article in The Times praising him for raising it chose to use a picture of him in a pink strip he hadn't worn for two seasons. News UK, eh? I must admit I would not like to be constantly called a '****ing nonce' for 90 minutes. Seems the fellow was by one of the TV cameras as well...so a clever one.
Just read that bit - one of the best chapters so far. i really like the way Harman focuses on one individual each chapter instead of simply making it a chronological recount of the season. So many great insights into the various characters at the club - their role, motivation, fears etc.