I do think @gary should have posted a disclaimer before quoting that. I’m worried that the use of language may be harmful to @micra if he reads it without being pre-warned.
Classic case of fans thinking they can shout and do whatever they like, but should a keeper do anything beyond just meekly get the ball and kick it out, they just can't handle it.
I did notice at the game that the "Rover and Out" flag was on display in the stand down to our left, which must play a really positive role in encouraging fans from the LGBT community that they would be welcome at games (obviously that should be a given).
I hope that the statement put out by the club has prevented any of that good work being undone, although some of the comments on social media from people purporting to be Tranmere fans has been fairly depressing.
Not on the same level, but it would be nice if our fans stopped with the "We pay your benefits" and whatnot - just makes them sound uneducated as much as anything.
@chairboyscentral said:
Not on the same level, but it would be nice if our fans stopped with the "We pay your benefits" and whatnot - just makes them sound uneducated as much as anything.
There's a fine line between creating a "strong" home atmosphere and going over the line though isn't there.
Is booing the opposition ok? Is it realistic to only create your atmosphere with positives about your own team?
Genuine question, as I'm no singing gang member, and cringe at some of their stuff too, but if you take away any "negatives" at all, surely you're taking a massive part of football culture out?
@chairboyscentral said:
Not on the same level, but it would be nice if our fans stopped with the "We pay your benefits" and whatnot - just makes them sound uneducated as much as anything.
Completely agree. That was awful
As was "you shag your family"
As was "your support is f**king shit"
As was "you live in a shithole"
Cringeworthy
"your support is f**king shit" I have less of an issue with in the context of songs going backwards and forwards although I wouldn't mourn it's passing, but the others are truly embarrassing and strike as less banter and more about losing an argument so chucking any crap about , not funny, no self awareness etc.
I think the middle one is standard and harmless, but the others really are embarrassing. But what can we do? That contingent of fans will always be there.
I agree with a lot of the above regarding the chants, it would be nicer to hear songs supporting the team rather than trying to demean other.
I understand the reason for banishing homophobic abuse from grounds is because it attempts to demean another individual for reason that they have no control over e.g. Sexuality.
I find it equally as distasteful when people sing about benefits, incest etc as it attempts to demean in a similar manner. Some may argue that people have more of choice with regards to the financial state they live in, but many don't.
Lots of people are born below the poverty line, not just up north but here in this very town. I wish those songs would disappear and most supporters get back to singing about how much we appreciate a great club and a proud history.
I do find it fascinating how much focus is put on the opposition by fans, both in the form of abuse or criticism of them, and the obsession with what they think about us.
I'd be lieing if I said I didn't get involved in the pantomime against certain players (Ellison and even Tommy Mooney in his Oxford days), but I agree we should try and concentrate on supporting our own team.
I, foolishly, got involved in a number of "conversations" on Twitter regarding the reported homophobic abuse, and came out of it thoroughly depressed at the attitude of so many.
I hope that Tranmere fan wrote that post very fast. If he had sat down composed that and checked it before sending I would be very worried about educational standards in Merseyside.
There's a fine line between 'banter' and abuse. I think even most referees would appreciate that their being called a wanker is done in pantomime fashion. Same for booing former players - that's fine, but calling them a c*** in an aggressive manner is not. Still, to those with an ounce of intelligence, it's not difficult to know where to draw the line and what constitutes crossing it.
@Malone said:
Is it realistic to only create your atmosphere with positives about your own team?
One of the things I love about going to see Clapton CFC is that this is pretty much crowd policy. No abuse of opposition players or fans, anyone and everyone should feel as welcome and safe as anyone else. The atmosphere incredible for 90 solid minutes.
Surely it is in the spirit of the game that should your team be losing and not looking like they are able to turn it around and you have consumed a lot of red bull or had a little 'bump' which is hammering away at your small brain, you need to find something to shout about to upset said opposition fans...to 'create atmosphere'. 'We are crap...' and 'We're not playing very well...' not fitting the bill you start criticising the fixtures and fittings 'Shit ground no fans...' 'Is this a library...' and the hosts 'One job between you...' 'We pay your benefits...' 'Town full of racists (etc)' etc etc. Dire as these are I don't feel they can be stamped out the way we can hopefully stamp out the worse racism, sexist, homophobic insults. Life without some drama/discord would be very boring!
Lookalike stewards are always a favourite for me. I can't remember which team it was, but fans in the away end at Stevenage were chanting "Chase in the morning / He's got The Chase in the morning!" at the spitting image of Mark Labbett. There was also "One Peter Griffin / There's only one Peter Griffin!" from our fans at Cheltenham in 2016.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Tranmere had a big rainbow flag in one of their stands? Absolute morons...embarrassing for them that an individual tarnishes a whole club.
Was this anything to do with Pride or am I barking up the wrong tree/being homophobic??
Does "she fell over" still get chanted? Equal rights and all that...
@thecatwwfc said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Tranmere had a big rainbow flag in one of their stands? Absolute morons...embarrassing for them that an individual tarnishes a whole club.
Was this anything to do with Pride or am I barking up the wrong tree/being homophobic??
Does "she fell over" still get chanted? Equal rights and all that...
You've certainly fallen into the "generalising" things camp But probably you're not correct!
What is interesting from this situation, is that it's the use of the language that's not acceptable, rather than who it is towards - with Allsopp not actually being gay!
Think there's a huge disparity in what's generally accepted and what's accepted by the gasroom.
Personally I've got no problem with having a go at the opposition fans / teams / players, the tribalism is what makes football special.
Obviously there are plenty of boundaries (most obviously, but not limited to, anything that's covered by hate speech laws)
I've seen players genuinely wound up and substituted due to chants, and it's part of the fun (sometimes) to wind up the opposition fans who have been giving it to you before.
Excluding "illegal" topics which should be reported, if you don't like a chant just don't join in and tut to your friends about it.
@Username said:
Think there's a huge disparity in what's generally accepted and what's accepted by the gasroom.
Personally I've got no problem with having a go at the opposition fans / teams / players, the tribalism is what makes football special.
Obviously there are plenty of boundaries (most obviously, but not limited to, anything that's covered by hate speech laws)
I've seen players genuinely wound up and substituted due to chants, and it's part of the fun (sometimes) to wind up the opposition fans who have been giving it to you before.
Excluding "illegal" topics which should be reported, if you don't like a chant just don't join in and tut to your friends about it.
There's always going to be two camps on this.
Singers and non.
I'm way too reserved and well to do to join in any chanting anyway. But I appreciate more outwardly passionate fans live for such things. If everyone was like me it'd be bloody dull.
But if everyone was like the worst of the singers, then it'd be miserable too.
good natured abuse between fans surely adds to the experience. We can all remember times when we know that a witty retort has got through. Equally nasty hurtful abuse is not acceptable (singing songs about Hillsborough or Munich etc plainly is not acceptable, I know I have said it before but singing murderer to Luke McCormick was way over the line for me.)
Still, to those with an ounce of intelligence, it's not difficult to know where to draw the line and what constitutes crossing it.
Not sure I agree. I think finding the acceptable line has never been harder in life in general, hence the glut of people apologising for jokes on twitter or jokes they made on twitter to their mates 20 years ago etc.
I think the McCormick chanting is more insulting to family of the victims tbh. That and the fact it almost makes a pantomime out of, you know, a serious crime he literally committed. Lee Hughes probably got the same reception.
Where would people stand on the "There's only two Andy Gorams" chant from back in the 90s? Seemed relatively witty and not particularly maliciously intended back then but with today's greater awareness of mental health issues, particularly in regards to players, would it be tolerated now?
Still, to those with an ounce of intelligence, it's not difficult to know where to draw the line and what constitutes crossing it.
Not sure I agree. I think finding the acceptable line has never been harder in life in general
Surely you are talking about a grey area somewhere short of the line. The line, as @chairboyscentral points out, should be incredibly obvious. Homophobic chants or use of homophobic slur is definitely and obviously over the line.
Comments
I do think @gary should have posted a disclaimer before quoting that. I’m worried that the use of language may be harmful to @micra if he reads it without being pre-warned.
If the Tranmere team had bothered having a shot or two Rocky wouldn't have had time to goad the fans.
Classic case of fans thinking they can shout and do whatever they like, but should a keeper do anything beyond just meekly get the ball and kick it out, they just can't handle it.
I did notice at the game that the "Rover and Out" flag was on display in the stand down to our left, which must play a really positive role in encouraging fans from the LGBT community that they would be welcome at games (obviously that should be a given).
I hope that the statement put out by the club has prevented any of that good work being undone, although some of the comments on social media from people purporting to be Tranmere fans has been fairly depressing.
https://www.tranmererovers.co.uk/news/2019/september/rover-and-out-nominated-for-award/
Not on the same level, but it would be nice if our fans stopped with the "We pay your benefits" and whatnot - just makes them sound uneducated as much as anything.
@chairboyscentral
@chairboyscentral Agree entirely. Embarrassing chant.
Completely agree. That was awful
As was "you shag your family"
As was "your support is f**king shit"
As was "you live in a shithole"
Cringeworthy
There's a fine line between creating a "strong" home atmosphere and going over the line though isn't there.
Is booing the opposition ok? Is it realistic to only create your atmosphere with positives about your own team?
Genuine question, as I'm no singing gang member, and cringe at some of their stuff too, but if you take away any "negatives" at all, surely you're taking a massive part of football culture out?
"your support is f**king shit" I have less of an issue with in the context of songs going backwards and forwards although I wouldn't mourn it's passing, but the others are truly embarrassing and strike as less banter and more about losing an argument so chucking any crap about , not funny, no self awareness etc.
I think the middle one is standard and harmless, but the others really are embarrassing. But what can we do? That contingent of fans will always be there.
I agree with a lot of the above regarding the chants, it would be nicer to hear songs supporting the team rather than trying to demean other.
I understand the reason for banishing homophobic abuse from grounds is because it attempts to demean another individual for reason that they have no control over e.g. Sexuality.
I find it equally as distasteful when people sing about benefits, incest etc as it attempts to demean in a similar manner. Some may argue that people have more of choice with regards to the financial state they live in, but many don't.
Lots of people are born below the poverty line, not just up north but here in this very town. I wish those songs would disappear and most supporters get back to singing about how much we appreciate a great club and a proud history.
I do find it fascinating how much focus is put on the opposition by fans, both in the form of abuse or criticism of them, and the obsession with what they think about us.
I'd be lieing if I said I didn't get involved in the pantomime against certain players (Ellison and even Tommy Mooney in his Oxford days), but I agree we should try and concentrate on supporting our own team.
I, foolishly, got involved in a number of "conversations" on Twitter regarding the reported homophobic abuse, and came out of it thoroughly depressed at the attitude of so many.
I hope that Tranmere fan wrote that post very fast. If he had sat down composed that and checked it before sending I would be very worried about educational standards in Merseyside.
There's a fine line between 'banter' and abuse. I think even most referees would appreciate that their being called a wanker is done in pantomime fashion. Same for booing former players - that's fine, but calling them a c*** in an aggressive manner is not. Still, to those with an ounce of intelligence, it's not difficult to know where to draw the line and what constitutes crossing it.
One of the things I love about going to see Clapton CFC is that this is pretty much crowd policy. No abuse of opposition players or fans, anyone and everyone should feel as welcome and safe as anyone else. The atmosphere incredible for 90 solid minutes.
Surely it is in the spirit of the game that should your team be losing and not looking like they are able to turn it around and you have consumed a lot of red bull or had a little 'bump' which is hammering away at your small brain, you need to find something to shout about to upset said opposition fans...to 'create atmosphere'. 'We are crap...' and 'We're not playing very well...' not fitting the bill you start criticising the fixtures and fittings 'Shit ground no fans...' 'Is this a library...' and the hosts 'One job between you...' 'We pay your benefits...' 'Town full of racists (etc)' etc etc. Dire as these are I don't feel they can be stamped out the way we can hopefully stamp out the worse racism, sexist, homophobic insults. Life without some drama/discord would be very boring!
"Can we play you every week" whilst winning comfortably is still the most enjoyable and best chant for me
Lookalike stewards are always a favourite for me. I can't remember which team it was, but fans in the away end at Stevenage were chanting "Chase in the morning / He's got The Chase in the morning!" at the spitting image of Mark Labbett. There was also "One Peter Griffin / There's only one Peter Griffin!" from our fans at Cheltenham in 2016.
This is also a great laugh:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Tranmere had a big rainbow flag in one of their stands? Absolute morons...embarrassing for them that an individual tarnishes a whole club.
Was this anything to do with Pride or am I barking up the wrong tree/being homophobic??
Does "she fell over" still get chanted? Equal rights and all that...
Fairly simple line for me on chants. Any time taken slagging off the opposition is time not spent cheering your own team on.
You've certainly fallen into the "generalising" things camp
But probably you're not correct!
What is interesting from this situation, is that it's the use of the language that's not acceptable, rather than who it is towards - with Allsopp not actually being gay!
Think there's a huge disparity in what's generally accepted and what's accepted by the gasroom.
Personally I've got no problem with having a go at the opposition fans / teams / players, the tribalism is what makes football special.
Obviously there are plenty of boundaries (most obviously, but not limited to, anything that's covered by hate speech laws)
I've seen players genuinely wound up and substituted due to chants, and it's part of the fun (sometimes) to wind up the opposition fans who have been giving it to you before.
Excluding "illegal" topics which should be reported, if you don't like a chant just don't join in and tut to your friends about it.
There's always going to be two camps on this.
Singers and non.
I'm way too reserved and well to do to join in any chanting anyway. But I appreciate more outwardly passionate fans live for such things. If everyone was like me it'd be bloody dull.
But if everyone was like the worst of the singers, then it'd be miserable too.
good natured abuse between fans surely adds to the experience. We can all remember times when we know that a witty retort has got through. Equally nasty hurtful abuse is not acceptable (singing songs about Hillsborough or Munich etc plainly is not acceptable, I know I have said it before but singing murderer to Luke McCormick was way over the line for me.)
Still, to those with an ounce of intelligence, it's not difficult to know where to draw the line and what constitutes crossing it.
Not sure I agree. I think finding the acceptable line has never been harder in life in general, hence the glut of people apologising for jokes on twitter or jokes they made on twitter to their mates 20 years ago etc.
I think the McCormick chanting is more insulting to family of the victims tbh. That and the fact it almost makes a pantomime out of, you know, a serious crime he literally committed. Lee Hughes probably got the same reception.
Where would people stand on the "There's only two Andy Gorams" chant from back in the 90s? Seemed relatively witty and not particularly maliciously intended back then but with today's greater awareness of mental health issues, particularly in regards to players, would it be tolerated now?
Surely you are talking about a grey area somewhere short of the line. The line, as @chairboyscentral points out, should be incredibly obvious. Homophobic chants or use of homophobic slur is definitely and obviously over the line.
.