I definitely agree with you that. I don't deny he did the club an excellent service when that side of him was channelled (the Jordan Ibe sell-on saga in particular), though that doesn't give him free reign to act as he all too frequently did to supporters of the club.
It might dumb things down a bit by paraphasing quoting films, and the "H" word I am about to use perhaps is over kill, but perhaps AH was a bit "Not the hero we deserve, but one we needed" at the time he came on board.
He wasn't the cuddly, heart on sleeve, badge kisser of a leader. Nor the one that tried to make all fans happy in the short term. But the leader who, at the time and position the club was in, I think we absolutely needed to bring some business nous and expirence in a combined sporting and competetive arena into the club, to pick us up and get us onto the path we all "deserve" later down the line.
It is disconcerting, of course, to think supporters may have been secondary to him - particularly with a fan owned club - as if things went wrong you can certainly see a Bury/Blackpool/Coventry situation coming in.
Perfidious thinks the motorsport thing is suspect - I actually see some very uniquely beneficial things the motorsport world do so that they can go racing can (and I think did) get ported over to the footballing world to help. Not least performance monitoring of players/drivers/cars/equipment, commerical approach so that they can go drive/play football at the weekend and a longer term plan of action of "where we are, and what we want to achieve in the next 3, 4 or 5 seasons". 5 year plans sound familiar?
Much like business, to be successful in motorsport you need to be particularly bullish in forcing your way to the front both on and off the track while playing to your strengths (even if that strength is playing your abilities down alot - "we're a tiny club etc"). I think the Gaz, Dobbo, and AH combo was vital and interlinked - particularly for the first 5 years.
I am hoping there is a symilar dynamic within the Couhig team with Missy and Rob being the public approachable face. I suspect Mark Palmer will play the more withdrawn hardnosed business "fall guy" act to get the actual brutal, business part of the club moving forward (even if it is Rob driving that in the board room) towards the goal of profitablity.
@TheDancingYak you may well be right and this isn't a criticism of individuals, but once Andrew Howard became chairman of the club it was the end for Supporter ownership at Wycombe Wanderers - no-one in any position of authority believed in it and we are where we are.
The posts on this thread prove what a tough job it is to run a professional football club. There are so many different opinions on how it should be done and it’s impossible to please everyone.
TheTrust board are either hard working guardians of our club or incompetent amateurs with a hidden agenda. One man’s shrewd businessman taking unpopular but necessary decisions is another man’s odious twat. Personally, I think Dancing Yak has got it about right with his excellent post above.
Rob Couhig hit the ground running with his hands on, friendly approach, now I think we’ll see a harder, more businesslike attitude from him. He’s already stated that people might find some of his ideas not to their liking, However, it’s not a popularity contest, it’s about doing whatever it takes to make the club sustainable.
Like those who went before him, he deserves our support.
@glasshalffull said:
The posts on this thread prove what a tough job it is to run a professional football club. There are so many different opinions on how it should be done and it’s impossible to please everyone.
TheTrust board are either hard working guardians of our club or incompetent amateurs with a hidden agenda. One man’s shrewd businessman taking unpopular but necessary decisions is another man’s odious twat. Personally, I think Dancing Yak has got it about right with his excellent post above.
Rob Couhig hit the ground running with his hands on, friendly approach, now I think we’ll see a harder, more businesslike attitude from him. He’s already stated that people might find some of his ideas not to their liking, However, it’s not a popularity contest, it’s about doing whatever it takes to make the club sustainable.
Like those who went before him, he deserves our support.
He definitely deserves our support, and our scrutiny on occasion.
It is a rare that a businessman who is successful in a crowded and competitive field does not have an element of being a huge cock about him which can work for and sometimes against them! (In the interests of equality I am sure this is also the case on the distaff side but I was not certain of the acceptable teminology!)
@peterparrotface said: @TheDancingYak you may well be right and this isn't a criticism of individuals, but once Andrew Howard became chairman of the club it was the end for Supporter ownership at Wycombe Wanderers - no-one in any position of authority believed in it and we are where we are.
I don’t disagree with that at all.
But it was literally a position of that way, or the club not existing at all. I would probably go with the AH option again but it Sounds a pretty similar situation we just had a vote on recently doesn’t it?
One day this seemingly perpetual cycle will be broken. Either football will wake up to itself or clubs will find a way to be profitable despite them. I am hoping rob does the latter while football heads towards a dawn of realisation that it’s not really working to a sustainable model for lower league clubs.
@eric_plant said:
The thing is, it sort of is a popularity contest isn't it?
Agreed it should be.
I really hope it works with/ for team Couhig. The relationship with the fan base, as and when Rob does make those inevitable unpopular decisions, will be telling. On several occasions during the courtship it was evident that his vision comes from a quite different place to that of your traditional lower league English parochial footie fan.
Now ‘it’s his ball’ let’s hope he still lets us play.
On several occasions during the courtship it was evident that his vision comes from a quite different place to that of your traditional lower league English parochial footie fan.
Now ‘it’s his ball’ let’s hope he still lets us play.
Perhaps, in that statement has been the problem in this last decade? The traditional way hasn't been working and we have had a view of Cyclops, (no insults intended @Cyclops), but a new approach seen from across the pond, might prove to be the remedy? Only time will tell.
I agree with Ewan. It’s time for a different approach. And what I meant when I said it’s not a popularity contest is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions if you believe that they’re right.
One of the things I found really interesting in the most recent podcast was Rob’s suggestion that it would take a lot of money to prize GA away from AP (so much that he would need to help him carry it to the car) - tongue in cheek maybe but I’m not so sure Rob will be accepting every offer that comes in for Gaz, unlike the Trust appears to have done this season. Trevor has always said that offers are accepted out of respect to Gareth but I’m not sure Rob will share that ethos.
@Gary - Other clubs will quickly realise they are negotiating with an owner that has financial nous. If Gareth signs a new contract on improved terms, I suspect in exchange for those improvements a substantial compensation figure will be specified before other clubs can interview him.
@glasshalffull said:
I agree with Ewan. It’s time for a different approach. And what I meant when I said it’s not a popularity contest is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions if you believe that they’re right.
You may be right. But I reckon some people take a bit more pleasure in clashing with people than others. Andrew Howard comes across as the sort of person who loves it. Perhaps that's what you admire so much about him
@eric_plant said:
Andrew Howard comes across as the sort of person who loves it.
I dare say he does. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone in any level of sport, be pro or am, that doesn’t get some enjoyment competing, clashing and beating other people. It kinda comes with that territory. You never hear a sportsman who’s goal is to be middle of the road, able to compete but happy finishing 53rd out of 100 people.
Same in a business sense. It’s pretty rare for someone to start a business and be happy just surviving.
These mentalities are of course completely at odds with the emotional investments us fans put in. And when the two people come from things from opposing sides can often see the other persons view as completely trivial and frustrating.
I’m all for a competitive spirit that makes sport so compelling, my issue with the dairy farmer was that he seemed to want to pick a fight with those, ostensibly on the same team, who might just have had a point of view not totally aligned with his own.
@glasshalffull said:
I agree with Ewan. It’s time for a different approach. And what I meant when I said it’s not a popularity contest is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions if you believe that they’re right.
You may be right. But I reckon some people take a bit more pleasure in clashing with people than others. Andrew Howard comes across as the sort of person who loves it. Perhaps that's what you admire so much about him
Andrew Howard isn’t a man to take the middle ground and seek compromise if he feels his opinion is the right one. You either admire that approach or you deplore it. Personally, I admire it and I genuinely don’t mean this in a nasty manner Eric, but you can be pretty confrontational yourself from time to time.
@glasshalffull said:
I agree with Ewan. It’s time for a different approach. And what I meant when I said it’s not a popularity contest is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions if you believe that they’re right.
You may be right. But I reckon some people take a bit more pleasure in clashing with people than others. Andrew Howard comes across as the sort of person who loves it. Perhaps that's what you admire so much about him
Andrew Howard isn’t a man to take the middle ground and seek compromise if he feels his opinion is the right one. You either admire that approach or you deplore it. Personally, I admire it and I genuinely don’t mean this in a nasty manner Eric, but you can be pretty confrontational yourself from time to time.
But I think that underlines my point Chas. For everyone who thought he was brash and unfriendly there were others who admired his hard nosed, take it-or leave it approach. It wasn’t a personal thing with him.
I don't think he is my type of person, but he was good for the club at the time. His particular skills were invaluable and he certainly left it in a better position than when he arrived.
@glasshalffull said:
I agree with Ewan. It’s time for a different approach. And what I meant when I said it’s not a popularity contest is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions if you believe that they’re right.
You may be right. But I reckon some people take a bit more pleasure in clashing with people than others. Andrew Howard comes across as the sort of person who loves it. Perhaps that's what you admire so much about him
Andrew Howard isn’t a man to take the middle ground and seek compromise if he feels his opinion is the right one. You either admire that approach or you deplore it. Personally, I admire it and I genuinely don’t mean this in a nasty manner Eric, but you can be pretty confrontational yourself from time to time.
Not sure it is that polarised, I don't admire or deplore his approach. I've heard Andrew Howard speak and he was very reasonable.
I’m not so sure Rob will be accepting every offer that comes in for Gaz, unlike the Trust appears to have done this season. Trevor has always said that offers are accepted out of respect to Gareth but I’m not sure Rob will share that ethos.
Really Gary? Add the Trust obviously wanted shot of our manager to the arrest warrant?
No owner would stand in the way of a manager moving on. Even one with a hatchback full of folding stuff.
Andrew Howard isn’t a man to take the middle ground and seek compromise if he feels his opinion is the right one. You either admire that approach or you deplore it. Personally, I admire it and I genuinely don’t mean this in a nasty manner Eric, but you can be pretty confrontational yourself from time to time.
Not sure it is that polarised, I don't admire or deplore his approach. I've heard Andrew Howard speak and he was very reasonable.
Comments
@bluntphil - maybe an interview with one of the key players in the Trust takeover and rescue of the club might be an idea for a future episode?
@bluntphil good move getting Alan Bennett to do the opposition view
It might dumb things down a bit by paraphasing quoting films, and the "H" word I am about to use perhaps is over kill, but perhaps AH was a bit "Not the hero we deserve, but one we needed" at the time he came on board.
He wasn't the cuddly, heart on sleeve, badge kisser of a leader. Nor the one that tried to make all fans happy in the short term. But the leader who, at the time and position the club was in, I think we absolutely needed to bring some business nous and expirence in a combined sporting and competetive arena into the club, to pick us up and get us onto the path we all "deserve" later down the line.
It is disconcerting, of course, to think supporters may have been secondary to him - particularly with a fan owned club - as if things went wrong you can certainly see a Bury/Blackpool/Coventry situation coming in.
Perfidious thinks the motorsport thing is suspect - I actually see some very uniquely beneficial things the motorsport world do so that they can go racing can (and I think did) get ported over to the footballing world to help. Not least performance monitoring of players/drivers/cars/equipment, commerical approach so that they can go drive/play football at the weekend and a longer term plan of action of "where we are, and what we want to achieve in the next 3, 4 or 5 seasons". 5 year plans sound familiar?
Much like business, to be successful in motorsport you need to be particularly bullish in forcing your way to the front both on and off the track while playing to your strengths (even if that strength is playing your abilities down alot - "we're a tiny club etc"). I think the Gaz, Dobbo, and AH combo was vital and interlinked - particularly for the first 5 years.
I am hoping there is a symilar dynamic within the Couhig team with Missy and Rob being the public approachable face. I suspect Mark Palmer will play the more withdrawn hardnosed business "fall guy" act to get the actual brutal, business part of the club moving forward (even if it is Rob driving that in the board room) towards the goal of profitablity.
@TheDancingYak you may well be right and this isn't a criticism of individuals, but once Andrew Howard became chairman of the club it was the end for Supporter ownership at Wycombe Wanderers - no-one in any position of authority believed in it and we are where we are.
The posts on this thread prove what a tough job it is to run a professional football club. There are so many different opinions on how it should be done and it’s impossible to please everyone.
TheTrust board are either hard working guardians of our club or incompetent amateurs with a hidden agenda. One man’s shrewd businessman taking unpopular but necessary decisions is another man’s odious twat. Personally, I think Dancing Yak has got it about right with his excellent post above.
Rob Couhig hit the ground running with his hands on, friendly approach, now I think we’ll see a harder, more businesslike attitude from him. He’s already stated that people might find some of his ideas not to their liking, However, it’s not a popularity contest, it’s about doing whatever it takes to make the club sustainable.
Like those who went before him, he deserves our support.
Be right back, just setting "another man’s odious twat" as my Tinder profile.
The thing is, it sort of is a popularity contest isn't it?
He definitely deserves our support, and our scrutiny on occasion.
It is a rare that a businessman who is successful in a crowded and competitive field does not have an element of being a huge cock about him which can work for and sometimes against them! (In the interests of equality I am sure this is also the case on the distaff side but I was not certain of the acceptable teminology!)
I don’t disagree with that at all.
But it was literally a position of that way, or the club not existing at all. I would probably go with the AH option again but it Sounds a pretty similar situation we just had a vote on recently doesn’t it?
One day this seemingly perpetual cycle will be broken. Either football will wake up to itself or clubs will find a way to be profitable despite them. I am hoping rob does the latter while football heads towards a dawn of realisation that it’s not really working to a sustainable model for lower league clubs.
Agreed it should be.
I really hope it works with/ for team Couhig. The relationship with the fan base, as and when Rob does make those inevitable unpopular decisions, will be telling. On several occasions during the courtship it was evident that his vision comes from a quite different place to that of your traditional lower league English parochial footie fan.
Now ‘it’s his ball’ let’s hope he still lets us play.
On several occasions during the courtship it was evident that his vision comes from a quite different place to that of your traditional lower league English parochial footie fan.
Perhaps, in that statement has been the problem in this last decade? The traditional way hasn't been working and we have had a view of Cyclops, (no insults intended @Cyclops), but a new approach seen from across the pond, might prove to be the remedy? Only time will tell.
I agree with Ewan. It’s time for a different approach. And what I meant when I said it’s not a popularity contest is that sometimes you have to make unpopular decisions if you believe that they’re right.
One of the things I found really interesting in the most recent podcast was Rob’s suggestion that it would take a lot of money to prize GA away from AP (so much that he would need to help him carry it to the car) - tongue in cheek maybe but I’m not so sure Rob will be accepting every offer that comes in for Gaz, unlike the Trust appears to have done this season. Trevor has always said that offers are accepted out of respect to Gareth but I’m not sure Rob will share that ethos.
@Gary - Other clubs will quickly realise they are negotiating with an owner that has financial nous. If Gareth signs a new contract on improved terms, I suspect in exchange for those improvements a substantial compensation figure will be specified before other clubs can interview him.
You may be right. But I reckon some people take a bit more pleasure in clashing with people than others. Andrew Howard comes across as the sort of person who loves it. Perhaps that's what you admire so much about him
I dare say he does. I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone in any level of sport, be pro or am, that doesn’t get some enjoyment competing, clashing and beating other people. It kinda comes with that territory. You never hear a sportsman who’s goal is to be middle of the road, able to compete but happy finishing 53rd out of 100 people.
Same in a business sense. It’s pretty rare for someone to start a business and be happy just surviving.
These mentalities are of course completely at odds with the emotional investments us fans put in. And when the two people come from things from opposing sides can often see the other persons view as completely trivial and frustrating.
Not all the above do it in a rude and nasty manner though
I’m all for a competitive spirit that makes sport so compelling, my issue with the dairy farmer was that he seemed to want to pick a fight with those, ostensibly on the same team, who might just have had a point of view not totally aligned with his own.
Andrew Howard isn’t a man to take the middle ground and seek compromise if he feels his opinion is the right one. You either admire that approach or you deplore it. Personally, I admire it and I genuinely don’t mean this in a nasty manner Eric, but you can be pretty confrontational yourself from time to time.
But it was never going to be easy to grow commercial partnerships and sponsorships when your chief figurehead could be so dislikable at times.
I
That's a fair point. Something for me to ponder
But I think that underlines my point Chas. For everyone who thought he was brash and unfriendly there were others who admired his hard nosed, take it-or leave it approach. It wasn’t a personal thing with him.
I don't think he is my type of person, but he was good for the club at the time. His particular skills were invaluable and he certainly left it in a better position than when he arrived.
Meyers-Briggs would have a field day with him. Wonder if he ever let them in? Off the scale on certain measures.
Myers-Briggs is bullshit.
Not sure it is that polarised, I don't admire or deplore his approach. I've heard Andrew Howard speak and he was very reasonable.
They have a personality type that would be shoe horned into?
I’m not so sure Rob will be accepting every offer that comes in for Gaz, unlike the Trust appears to have done this season. Trevor has always said that offers are accepted out of respect to Gareth but I’m not sure Rob will share that ethos.
Really Gary? Add the Trust obviously wanted shot of our manager to the arrest warrant?
No owner would stand in the way of a manager moving on. Even one with a hatchback full of folding stuff.
I think that’s a very reasonable summing up.