@Malone said:
£600,000 between 1,200 people is only £500 a year each.
So it's not beyond the realms of possibilities, bearing in mind some will have loads more wad they could put in, to cover for those who don't.
However, it's obviously not a great way to operate repeatedly.
This month those of us who signed up to the community share scheme in 2015 are making (or have made) our “final” payments (as far as I know, the scheme continues but Alan Cecil will correct me on that if necessary). As it happens, the amount @Malone mentions is what I have been contributing. I am fortunate to have a half-decent pension and a wife who shares my old-fashioned belief in “waste not, want not” and a comfortable but far from lavish life style.
I am no longer willing or able to maintain our large garden unaided (although I still enjoy mowing the lawns). Good gardeners don’t come cheap so I wasn’t intending to continue my contributions beyond this year but I am sufficiently concerned about the future of the club I’ve supported for over half a century to want to be one of the first to make a commitment to the kind of financial support that @Malone is suggesting.
Over the past two seasons, thanks to the magic conjured up by GA and his management team, the supporter base has increased very significantly and I tend to have rather more confidence than @DevC that, albeit not necessarily in the long term, some form of supporter- based financing could be viable, especially as I believe the Trust membership has also had quite a boost this season.
Finally, with improvements in overall management and even a modest level of “football fortune”, the annual deficit could surely be reduced. On the playing side, some of the more highly paid players will inevitably have to be released (or will move on in any case) and the opportunity will be there to bring in younger and less expensive players, some from non-league like Oli Hawkins and Jamal Lowe, for example. But, who knows, that offer we can’t refuse may still be in the offing!
This month those of us who signed up to the community share scheme in 2015 are making (or have made) our “final” payments (as far as I know, the scheme continues but Alan Cecil will correct me on that if necessary).
Those who agreed to make an annual payment into the share scheme starting in 2015 will be making their 5th and final payment this year. Those who joined later and/or pay monthly will each have different end dates with some due to run into season 2020-21.
For now, the Share Scheme continues as before (though no longer with any EIS tax relief) but the Trust will communicate with every current contributor as and when its ownership of the football club changes.
@micra well said....though as Mrs W thinks I am already wasting enough money we don't have on my 'hobby' (ST, parking, 50/50, I cannot believe it's coffee, crisps) not sure I could make the payments!
@micra, its a lovely idea, I would love to see it work, we may have to give it a try but to be honest I doubt its remotely realistic.
it is possible of course that by Thursday we will learn that the Luby bid was indeed just resting and is not in fact the dead parrot that I fear it appears to be.
If that fails, then sadly I think we would have little choice but to go back to Harman to see if his bid could be resurrected - for me at least a very very bitter pill to swallow
If that fails , we may have to give your scheme a go.
If preserving our league status is a key aim, it all makes this years relegation fight all the more important. If we stay up we have 16 months to sort ourselves out even if at the end of that time we find ourselves in lg2 after a dismal season. If we go down this season, we have to get it right in the next four months.
Lets hope for three points tomorrow night for a start.
If the deal does collapse, I'd like to see the club take a good look at itself to see if we can be run on a sustainable basis as a fan-owned club in the long term.
Lets not forget, all the progress we've achieved in the last few years has happened under that ownership model, lets not rush to the assumption that private ownership necessarily represents progress.
AFC Wimbledon and Exeter City are making a go of the fan owned model and have done for significantly longer than us, without it would seem, constantly telling their members that its impossible to operate that way in the long run.
Having stability of ownership is a good thing, and far better than being at the whim of an individual who may or may not be any good at running a football club and who could sell it on any point to someone who is even less capable and might not have the best interests of the club at heart.
Of course it will be challenging. Particularly as there's the debt to Bill and Jim, I've no idea what the repayment arrangements are in the event the deal falls away but we may be in a decent position to renegotiate (terms if not the amount), particularly if there's a windfall from any sale of Kortney Hause that reduces the balance.
@micra I for one would back a Harman-led proposition or what @Malone suggested for several multiples of £500 per annum assuming there was some recognition along the way. The club has given me a huge amount of pleasure over the years and while I enjoy watching the National League highlights show I would much rather see us holding our own at this level. @AlanCecil could you please remind me why we no longer qualify for EIS status? The 30% income tax reduction on my earlier contribution was most welcome.
@Onlooker said: @micra I for one would back a Harman-led proposition or what @Malone suggested for several multiples of £500 per annum assuming there was some recognition along the way. The club has given me a huge amount of pleasure over the years and while I enjoy watching the National League highlights show I would much rather see us holding our own at this level. @AlanCecil could you please remind me why we no longer qualify for EIS status? The 30% income tax reduction on my earlier contribution was most welcome.
@Onlooker Please follow this link to Trust website article. this was also sent to each Share Scheme investor last year http://www.wycombewandererstrust.com/2018/07/important-change-to-the-trust-community-share-scheme
Feel free to ask any further questions on the Share Scheme here or to email [email protected].
Given the time elapsed since the offer brochure was issued, we feel it improper to invite new contributions now, based on what was true back then, other than those to which people have already committed.
If necessary no doubt the Trust would look at another way of attracting in members contributions.
It would be great to have a sustainable club, but the problem is football wide. What other business would pay its employees (in our case footballers) more than they bring into the business?
Utter madness and it needs clubs as a whole to stand up to players demands and tell them they can't have what they've not earned. But highly unlikely to happen
@Onlooker said:
Thanks @wformation and @AlanCecil - I assume it was because we fell foul of the seven year age restriction rather than the £12m fundraising limit?
Yes indeed the former.
S175A of the Income Tax Act 2007 introduced a new 7 year restriction as from 18th November 2015. However HMRC did not make us aware of this and continued to sanction our tax relief status until we pointed out our awareness of the legislation change. Hence their humble (and welcome) agreement not to back date the withdrawal of the tax relief.
@Keith_Allens_Wig , brought back memories of Stevie Craig in the press saying how their "bonuses" hadn't been paid, as we sat next to rock bottom in the league!
I know he meant appearances etc and that's how clubs do it, but it was that first reaction, of bonuses? What on earth for, we're rubbish!
Is it possible that now Bill and Jim have leverage in the form of a hold over the stadium, they now don’t feel that they need to put quite so much in and have moved the goal posts?
There is no leverage on the stadium. Half the loan is now paid off. So if push came to shuv then we would find away to pay them off in one go if needed. So I really think the offer will be the same as before. Well I hope so!
absolute nonsense, I understand that if we don't get a very good gate this evening we will be struggling to pay wages at the end of April !!!
@TrueBlu said:
There is no leverage on the stadium. Half the loan is now paid off. So if push came to shuv then we would find away to pay them off in one go if needed. So I really think the offer will be the same as before. Well I hope so!
Comments
This month those of us who signed up to the community share scheme in 2015 are making (or have made) our “final” payments (as far as I know, the scheme continues but Alan Cecil will correct me on that if necessary). As it happens, the amount @Malone mentions is what I have been contributing. I am fortunate to have a half-decent pension and a wife who shares my old-fashioned belief in “waste not, want not” and a comfortable but far from lavish life style.
I am no longer willing or able to maintain our large garden unaided (although I still enjoy mowing the lawns). Good gardeners don’t come cheap so I wasn’t intending to continue my contributions beyond this year but I am sufficiently concerned about the future of the club I’ve supported for over half a century to want to be one of the first to make a commitment to the kind of financial support that @Malone is suggesting.
Over the past two seasons, thanks to the magic conjured up by GA and his management team, the supporter base has increased very significantly and I tend to have rather more confidence than @DevC that, albeit not necessarily in the long term, some form of supporter- based financing could be viable, especially as I believe the Trust membership has also had quite a boost this season.
Finally, with improvements in overall management and even a modest level of “football fortune”, the annual deficit could surely be reduced. On the playing side, some of the more highly paid players will inevitably have to be released (or will move on in any case) and the opportunity will be there to bring in younger and less expensive players, some from non-league like Oli Hawkins and Jamal Lowe, for example. But, who knows, that offer we can’t refuse may still be in the offing!
POTD
Thanks @mooneyman.
Thanks @micra for the prompt.
Those who agreed to make an annual payment into the share scheme starting in 2015 will be making their 5th and final payment this year. Those who joined later and/or pay monthly will each have different end dates with some due to run into season 2020-21.
For now, the Share Scheme continues as before (though no longer with any EIS tax relief) but the Trust will communicate with every current contributor as and when its ownership of the football club changes.
@micra for President. Pure class and common sense as always (and I would include @AlanCecil in that too).
@Shev -Must be able to do a better job than Trump!
@micra well said....though as Mrs W thinks I am already wasting enough money we don't have on my 'hobby' (ST, parking, 50/50, I cannot believe it's coffee, crisps) not sure I could make the payments!
@icra - you can be my heroooo baby.
You can take away the pain.
I think even Richie would make a better job of it than Trump @mooneyman but I agree
(Doh, darn mobile wont let me edit)
@micra, its a lovely idea, I would love to see it work, we may have to give it a try but to be honest I doubt its remotely realistic.
it is possible of course that by Thursday we will learn that the Luby bid was indeed just resting and is not in fact the dead parrot that I fear it appears to be.
If that fails, then sadly I think we would have little choice but to go back to Harman to see if his bid could be resurrected - for me at least a very very bitter pill to swallow
If that fails , we may have to give your scheme a go.
If preserving our league status is a key aim, it all makes this years relegation fight all the more important. If we stay up we have 16 months to sort ourselves out even if at the end of that time we find ourselves in lg2 after a dismal season. If we go down this season, we have to get it right in the next four months.
Lets hope for three points tomorrow night for a start.
If the deal does collapse, I'd like to see the club take a good look at itself to see if we can be run on a sustainable basis as a fan-owned club in the long term.
Lets not forget, all the progress we've achieved in the last few years has happened under that ownership model, lets not rush to the assumption that private ownership necessarily represents progress.
AFC Wimbledon and Exeter City are making a go of the fan owned model and have done for significantly longer than us, without it would seem, constantly telling their members that its impossible to operate that way in the long run.
Having stability of ownership is a good thing, and far better than being at the whim of an individual who may or may not be any good at running a football club and who could sell it on any point to someone who is even less capable and might not have the best interests of the club at heart.
Of course it will be challenging. Particularly as there's the debt to Bill and Jim, I've no idea what the repayment arrangements are in the event the deal falls away but we may be in a decent position to renegotiate (terms if not the amount), particularly if there's a windfall from any sale of Kortney Hause that reduces the balance.
@micra I for one would back a Harman-led proposition or what @Malone suggested for several multiples of £500 per annum assuming there was some recognition along the way. The club has given me a huge amount of pleasure over the years and while I enjoy watching the National League highlights show I would much rather see us holding our own at this level. @AlanCecil could you please remind me why we no longer qualify for EIS status? The 30% income tax reduction on my earlier contribution was most welcome.
HMRC changed the rules not the Trust
@Onlooker Please follow this link to Trust website article. this was also sent to each Share Scheme investor last year http://www.wycombewandererstrust.com/2018/07/important-change-to-the-trust-community-share-scheme
Feel free to ask any further questions on the Share Scheme here or to email [email protected].
Given the time elapsed since the offer brochure was issued, we feel it improper to invite new contributions now, based on what was true back then, other than those to which people have already committed.
If necessary no doubt the Trust would look at another way of attracting in members contributions.
It would be great to have a sustainable club, but the problem is football wide. What other business would pay its employees (in our case footballers) more than they bring into the business?
Utter madness and it needs clubs as a whole to stand up to players demands and tell them they can't have what they've not earned. But highly unlikely to happen
Thanks @wformation and @AlanCecil - I assume it was because we fell foul of the seven year age restriction rather than the £12m fundraising limit?
Yes indeed the former.
S175A of the Income Tax Act 2007 introduced a new 7 year restriction as from 18th November 2015. However HMRC did not make us aware of this and continued to sanction our tax relief status until we pointed out our awareness of the legislation change. Hence their humble (and welcome) agreement not to back date the withdrawal of the tax relief.
@Keith_Allens_Wig , brought back memories of Stevie Craig in the press saying how their "bonuses" hadn't been paid, as we sat next to rock bottom in the league!
I know he meant appearances etc and that's how clubs do it, but it was that first reaction, of bonuses? What on earth for, we're rubbish!
Imagine wanting to get paid what you are contractually due so you can pay your mortgage. The cheek of it.
Steve Craig was an absolute credit to himself and his teammates over that
Stuck his head above the parapet knowing it would be controversial and bring criticism but he stood up for his teammates anyway
An admirable bloke
It was the use of the word "Bonus" that was the odd bit.
Most people who get bonuses are performing well.
Footballers get bonuses for all sorts, including playing
People who got all arsey about it showed themselves up as a bit thick
Is it possible that now Bill and Jim have leverage in the form of a hold over the stadium, they now don’t feel that they need to put quite so much in and have moved the goal posts?
There is no leverage on the stadium. Half the loan is now paid off. So if push came to shuv then we would find away to pay them off in one go if needed. So I really think the offer will be the same as before. Well I hope so!
How do you know half the loan is paid off?
Unless we’ve defaulted. The loan was over 12 months. Starting 6 months ago. So you would have to assume we are halfway there. I could be wrong
I think you are wrong @true_Blu
absolute nonsense, I understand that if we don't get a very good gate this evening we will be struggling to pay wages at the end of April !!!
You lost me at "I understand" Rich.