Do us all a favour and pm each other the insults (thereby getting a virtual room).
I do find the discussion on “glass ceilings “ an interesting one. As in this particular case it sometimes (often?) goes hand in hand with one of entitlement. It seems this time to be the latter but perhaps more statistics in the subject are needed.
I do sympathize somewhat more with @DevC ‘s viewpoint as Devon is the only county where I have been physically assaulted for being “racist against my own kind!”
Keep up the banter folks, we’re all on the same team here:)
it is pointing out that it Campbell has not got a job because he is a bellend not because he is black. Scholes has not got a job because he is not suited not because he is gingerhaired.
can you honestly not tell the difference between that and saying that prejudice against ginger haired people is of the same level as prejudice against black people.
Shame an interesting conversation has been ruined by this nonsense.
In fact lets spell this out one question at a time, so we can get back to an interesting discussion instead of misrepresentations.
1) Do you agree that while playing different positions, Campbell and Scholes enjoyed careers of broadly similar status and experience?
2) Do you agree that due to their characters, neither is an obvious candidate for being employed as a manager.
3) Based on 2) , is it likely that racism has played a significant part in Campbell's failure to get a job.
4) based on 2), is it likely that Scholes failure to get a job is based on hair colour.
5) If you have answered yes to questions 1) and 2) but differently to 3) and 4), could you explain
So now I presume you understand and accept that you have been misrepresenting me all along?
To be fair perhaps I implied your misrepresentation as deliberate where perhaps you had just misunderstood. I don't like being accused of racism though.
Wow. I don’t come on here for a day and miss one of the most surreal discussions on here for a long time. @Wendoverman makes a valid observation on a Stan Collymore comment that he seems to me to not agree with (on the basis that Sol Campbell genuinely and probably isn’t yet suited for a managerial position) but offers (reasonable in my opinion) food for thought about a potential racial bias in the selection of football club managers. @DevC goes all @DevC and appears to agree and disagree at the same time and it all goes Kim & Don (2017 versions).
The leap to racism is always a bit of a lazy shortcut I'm afraid. Campbell has made some pretty arrogant statements about where he should be managing and been clear that he would only see a small club as a stepping stone. He may have qualifications but in the real world does he interview well? Is he engaged with lower league players and their needs and psychology (Adams certainly was NOT)? Does he have any appreciation of players at a lower level? It really is not all about a training course.
If Mr Collymore is correct and jobs are handed out or not handed out because of colour of skin can he explain how my friend's white daughter has a first in journalism but can't get a job in media where as he has nothing but seems to have job ok. Massive over simplification that can fit a narrative if one wants it to.
Jeez, I really can't believe this is this difficult.
Final post on this thread and then I'll resolve to stick to pun threads and threads about should we re-sign some ex-player.
I'll just restate my position for clarity and then leave you to it
1) racism is a dreadful thing
2) evidence suggests that there is at least subconscious racism preventing as many black managers being appointed as you would expect.
3) not all black ex players who have not got jobs have been victims of racism
4) black ex players can be rejected validly for being unsuitable just as white ex players can be
5) sol Campbell appears likely to make a very bad football manager
6) because of his character not the colour of his skin
7) that appears likely to be the main reason he hasn't got a job
8)false accusations of racism play into the hands of the flag waving racist white nationalists
9) that's not a good idea
10) this forum is becoming more Facebook insults and banter than grown up discussion
11) I think that's a shame
Over and out
I disagree that any of us have enough information to make the judgement conclusively that Campbell’s claims are false. Much as I wouldn’t employ him based on what I’ve heard in the media (which in itself might not be entirely accurate) the same is true of plenty of other potential and actual football managers. We simply do not know whether racism, either intentional or as the result of unconscious bias, has had an impact, and he is in a better position to make that judgement than any of us.
@DevC I think that's the whole point. I don't think anyone actually disagrees with any of your points 1 -10 (bar the odd post somewhere a page or so ago). Point 11 on the other hand....
Comments
Do us all a favour and pm each other the insults (thereby getting a virtual room).
I do find the discussion on “glass ceilings “ an interesting one. As in this particular case it sometimes (often?) goes hand in hand with one of entitlement. It seems this time to be the latter but perhaps more statistics in the subject are needed.
I do sympathize somewhat more with @DevC ‘s viewpoint as Devon is the only county where I have been physically assaulted for being “racist against my own kind!”
Keep up the banter folks, we’re all on the same team here:)
No Wendover.
it is pointing out that it Campbell has not got a job because he is a bellend not because he is black. Scholes has not got a job because he is not suited not because he is gingerhaired.
can you honestly not tell the difference between that and saying that prejudice against ginger haired people is of the same level as prejudice against black people.
Shame an interesting conversation has been ruined by this nonsense.
In fact lets spell this out one question at a time, so we can get back to an interesting discussion instead of misrepresentations.
1) Do you agree that while playing different positions, Campbell and Scholes enjoyed careers of broadly similar status and experience?
2) Do you agree that due to their characters, neither is an obvious candidate for being employed as a manager.
3) Based on 2) , is it likely that racism has played a significant part in Campbell's failure to get a job.
4) based on 2), is it likely that Scholes failure to get a job is based on hair colour.
5) If you have answered yes to questions 1) and 2) but differently to 3) and 4), could you explain
You win Dev. You win.
So now I presume you understand and accept that you have been misrepresenting me all along?
To be fair perhaps I implied your misrepresentation as deliberate where perhaps you had just misunderstood. I don't like being accused of racism though.
FMOB
'The Greatest Football Mind'
LOL.
For Christ's sake can you not stop?
Wow. I don’t come on here for a day and miss one of the most surreal discussions on here for a long time. @Wendoverman makes a valid observation on a Stan Collymore comment that he seems to me to not agree with (on the basis that Sol Campbell genuinely and probably isn’t yet suited for a managerial position) but offers (reasonable in my opinion) food for thought about a potential racial bias in the selection of football club managers. @DevC goes all @DevC and appears to agree and disagree at the same time and it all goes Kim & Don (2017 versions).
Is the heatwave still on down there?!!
I hope you're not suggesting I'm a shouty fat man with a disastrous weave @bookertease or I'll see you outside.
No. I had you down as a quiet fat man with a dodgy hair cut.
fair enough
The leap to racism is always a bit of a lazy shortcut I'm afraid. Campbell has made some pretty arrogant statements about where he should be managing and been clear that he would only see a small club as a stepping stone. He may have qualifications but in the real world does he interview well? Is he engaged with lower league players and their needs and psychology (Adams certainly was NOT)? Does he have any appreciation of players at a lower level? It really is not all about a training course.
If Mr Collymore is correct and jobs are handed out or not handed out because of colour of skin can he explain how my friend's white daughter has a first in journalism but can't get a job in media where as he has nothing but seems to have job ok. Massive over simplification that can fit a narrative if one wants it to.
IMHO Campbell is a cock but what do I know
Jeez, I really can't believe this is this difficult.
Final post on this thread and then I'll resolve to stick to pun threads and threads about should we re-sign some ex-player.
I'll just restate my position for clarity and then leave you to it
1) racism is a dreadful thing
2) evidence suggests that there is at least subconscious racism preventing as many black managers being appointed as you would expect.
3) not all black ex players who have not got jobs have been victims of racism
4) black ex players can be rejected validly for being unsuitable just as white ex players can be
5) sol Campbell appears likely to make a very bad football manager
6) because of his character not the colour of his skin
7) that appears likely to be the main reason he hasn't got a job
8)false accusations of racism play into the hands of the flag waving racist white nationalists
9) that's not a good idea
10) this forum is becoming more Facebook insults and banter than grown up discussion
11) I think that's a shame
Over and out
I disagree that any of us have enough information to make the judgement conclusively that Campbell’s claims are false. Much as I wouldn’t employ him based on what I’ve heard in the media (which in itself might not be entirely accurate) the same is true of plenty of other potential and actual football managers. We simply do not know whether racism, either intentional or as the result of unconscious bias, has had an impact, and he is in a better position to make that judgement than any of us.
@DevC I think that's the whole point. I don't think anyone actually disagrees with any of your points 1 -10 (bar the odd post somewhere a page or so ago). Point 11 on the other hand....
I disagree with #10 on a regular basis
I know what he means about point 10 someone called called me a twat earlier. Some decorum would be nice.