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The Greatest Football Mind

I know we've discussed this before and I'm willing to believe it is because Sol Campbell is a collossal bell-end, but Stan Collymore does make a case when he says look at Lampard and Gerrard (players with similar playing careers and qualifications) walking into reasonably high profile jobs when all SC gets offered is assistant coach for Trinidad. Certainly food for thought.

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Comments

  • There appears to be two possibilities
    1) racism - as you imply
    2) that they are all great ex-players, two of them appear to be reasonably well-grounded individuals in touch with reality and one appears to be a complete fruit-cake no sane chairman would want anywhere near his club. As it happens the latter happens to have brown skin.

    Racism is racism if people are being discriminated against BECAUSE of their skin colour. it is not racism if an individual doesn't get a job and another better candidate does whatever the skin colour of the individuals concerned.

  • I thought racism was a fear of athletics so thanks for clearing that up for me.
    Stan Collymore implies it @DevC and as I said, I thought he made a reasonable case (although I don't know Sol Campbell as well as you clearly do.)
    How do you feel about a Board appointing as their manager an Association Footballer who had burned a fellow players eye with a cigar, was jailed for assault, fined by the FA for violent conduct and then ended his career banned from playing because of gambling charges? I mean obviously he's not a complete fruit-cake...

  • I'd have thought Rangers bringing Gerrard is more a statement of intent by the club. He only retired a couple of years ago, has kept his profile pretty high and is rated as one of the best midfielders of his generation. Rangers need someone to boost the standing of the club. I imagine he'll be able to attract some decent players. I'd say the same about Lampard more or less. I've pretty much forgotten about Sol Campbell much like the rest of the footballing world.
    I have no idea how Joey Barton got the Fleetwood job, other than he must have a good agent and he's got a lot of publicity abet not exactly positive

  • You rather undermined your (or is it Stan Colleymore's) suggestion of racism by describing Campbell as a colossal bell-end.

    so we can understand you better, do you believe Campbell's inability to get a job is primarily down to racism or unsuitability on account of his bellendism?

    While you are at it, was Paul Scholes similar failing down to unsuitability or being ginger?

    I wouldn't have taken the risk on Barton but who knows perhaps it will work? That's got nothing to do with racism either.

  • @Devc Calm down mate you'll have a stroke!

  • I note you avoid the question.

  • @Wendoverman do you have a link to the Stan Collymore talk?

  • Which question?

    I noted Stan Collymore brought up the Rooney Rule in relation to the fact that he feels players of equal qualifications don't get a fair crack of the whip. So you understand me I thought he had an interesting point.
    Not sure what I said to upset Paul Scholes or which job you think he lost because he was ginger so I cannot help you understand me there.
    I understand you about Joey Barton, but given his past, given the choice would you still have picked him over Campbell because Campbell is a fruit cake? It's important we all understand where we stand on this.
    If, as I suspect, you are accusing me of hoping the decisions to appoint Lamps and Stevie G were NOT at all racist.
    How very dare you.

    Now calm down mate...you'll have a stroke.

  • @fezziwig voila! Bear in mind Stan the Man has had periods being an @Devc fruitcake and potential bellend as well as working for Russia Today. In his day though...what a striker!
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/10/stan-collymore-the-thing-white-men-hate-the-most-is-outspoken-black-men

  • which question?

    The sentence with the question mark at the end. Not hard is it'

  • Thanks @Wendoverman. I didn't realise RT had a football show!

  • You asked two...so I wondered which one was THE question. I note you avoid my answer(s). I'm no doctor @DevC but I think you need to check your blood sugar levels and blood pressure today, you may need a review. @fezziwig me neither but I think his TalkRadio show was quite popular so no idea why they binned him.

  • You conspicuously haven't answered either.

    Just a pile of barely intelligible gibberish.

    You do realise that is painfully obvious to all?

  • edited June 12

    Stan is a bit all over the place. As far as I'm aware the EFL implemented the Rooney Rule at the beginning of the year as a pilot scheme for the Prem and both of these jobs were outside of the the top league anyway. I don't think picking the Sol Campbell was the best example (Chris Hughton has never been a fair shot imo) as the TTFA only gave him the assistant coach role unless he's accusing them which would be a bit odd.
    I think lack of representation needs some serious study to work exactly why. Some find quotas some what insulting in as far as it feels like tokenism.

    edit
    link to source of my last comment
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30017857

  • I’m pretty sure that racism (or at least unconscious bias) does contribute to black players not being offered managerial jobs in football.

  • I'd agree with that Chris. But that doesn't mean that all black ex-players who don't get a managers job have lost out because of racism/bias. Some such as Mr Campbell like Mr Scholes simply don't have the right attributes.

    Crying racism in cases where it clearly isn't simply strengthens the hand of the nationalist flagwavers who are pushing back and claiming that excessive PC results in fact in the white community being discriminated against. I hate giving them any ammunition.

  • Have you interviewed him?

  • So you agree with Stan then @devc just not his particular fruit cake example. Then I cannot see what you got out of your tree and dragged in the poor oppressed race of the gingers. Haven't they suffered enough?

  • @fezziwig I agree Stan is a bit scattergun, but most people who think tbey are telling it like it is could do with a few seconds thought. I think calling chris hughton an example of an acceptable black man when he's been treated poorly in quite a few of his mind is a bit rich. And having a go at pundits smacks of

  • A bit of jealousy rather than a true assessment of their worth. Bbc have always gone with safety. But whatever you think not lamps and Gerrard I cannot believe there isn't a black coach out there that could have been tried out. But that just my opinion.

  • For the Fleetwood job I meant. This phone wont let me edit my posts very goodly.

  • I'd have thought the point was quite obvious, wendover. While i think there is evidence that black ex-players may be discriminated against generally, in Campbell's case there is no more evidence that Campbell was overlooked for a job because of his skin colour than scholes because of his hair colour. neither's public persona suggests they have the right attributes for the job. Jumping straight and IMHO falsely to a conclusion of racism just gives ammunition to the flagwavers. I hate that.

    I cant agree with your analysis that a black coach is necessarily any more suitable for the fleetwood job than a white coach. I wouldn't have chosen Barton personally but no more reason to suggest the best man for the job would have been necessarily black than there is to suggest that he would have been necessarily white. That's racism either way.

    I am skeptical on principle about the Rooney rule. I believe in equality of opportunity for all but that's real equality not tokenism. TBH if i was blackskinned, I would find it deeply offensive to think that I was only being interviewed (and then not seriously) in order to fulfill a skin colour quota. On the other hand i cant think of another way either.

  • @drcongo the ignore function no longer seems to work on this new version

  • Ginger is not a race for the record.

  • i didnt say it was. Two players with similar careers both overlooked for managers jobs.

  • Is this 1975? You earlier equated Paul scholes not getting a job because he had red hair with Campbell not getting a job because of his colour. Either ypu're bored and really needed a wind up I would Get off yesterday and tv gold @devc before it's too late.

  • And I'm out sleep well potential managers of all race colour and creed.

  • No I didn't Wendover.

  • It’s look to me like Gerrard and Lampard are in a race to be first to the post as England manager, a little bit like the debate around who should start in centre mid as players.

    In regards to Sol Campbell, it’s clearly not racism. It’s a social perception thing, midfielders are thought of as having higher game manangement IQ. Vision is not something normally associated with stopper style centre halves.

    If Sol actually took a job and earnt his stripes, he may just be given an opportunity like Darren Moore at West Brom further down the line.

  • We gave Tony Adams a chance, and so have (inexplicably) other clubs after us. It’s not just to do with being a defender, or having an overly inflated opinion of oneself.

    Campbell seems a dislikable (maybe it’s just because he’s a Tory) and deluded character, but that doesn’t mean he’s necessarily incorrect in saying racism is at least part of the reason he’s not been offered a manager’s post.

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