Shooting the first team with anti-tank missiles after every loss (however popular with some on the terrace) might being down gates in general I reckon @BuckinghamBlue
@glasshalffull said:
But sometimes rising above pettiness is a far more powerful weapon.
In what way would putting ‘MK Dons’ rather than ‘MK’ on the scoreboard have been a powerful weapon?
The things that people with limited power do might only be symbolic but it’s better than nothing. It demonstrates their continued objection to something that they feel isn’t right. Whether it’s as relatively trivial as football with AFC Wimbledon, or as serious as Irish home rule with James McClean or Eoin Morgan, or representing oppressed communities with Colin Kaepernick, or indeed raised fists by Tommie Smith and John Carlos small actions might seem petty but they can have a far wider significance.
I'm not necessarily saying we should do this, because he's a bit evil and that. But I do like the idea of WW adopting Kim Jong Un and sending him out loads of free merchandise and shirts etc. He clearly likes a bit of flattery. Imagine if he was snapped visiting a nuclear missile test site or something wearing a Wycombe Wanderers bucket hat. Then he could come over and enjoy a day out in a box for the Col U game.
@Jonny_King I get your thinking. And Donald Trump...a bit of ego massaging and we could become the dictators of the world team of choice. No publicity is bad publicity! we'd better get there first before MK Dons press team turn their attentions away from Aylesbury and towards Washington DC. Bayo, Paris, Nathan T and Anthony Stewart take the knee and we're front page news worldwide...
Just arrived in Coventry, traffic surprisingly light. Genuine question (not trying to be provocative), wondered how many people who understandably resent MK Dons went to see their games against WWFC when we were in the same division?
@BuckinghamBlue Not sure how many 'workers cooperatives' there are in NK, unless working at gunpoint to line the pockets of Kim Jong-Un is now the definition of a cooperative these days.
Back to the subject of AFCW's refusal to associate the Franchise with the 'Dons' part of the name that forcibly reminds them of the murder of Wimbledon FC, they could have been a bit more subtle and just put 'Milton Keynes' on the scoreboard and told the FA they ran out of pixels on the dot matrix scoreboard to write anything else.
Or they could have borrowed our knackered scoreboard that can't put the name of the opposition on it for whatever reason.
@ReadingMarginalista said:
BuckinghamBlue Not sure how many 'workers cooperatives' there are in NK, unless working at gunpoint to line the pockets of Kim Jong-Un is now the definition of a cooperative these days.
Momentarily read that as MK. Quite a shock to the early morning system.
I went to both a couple of seasons ago and Kevin Betsy’s late winner at their place was memorable.> @Chris said:
The things that people with limited power do might only be symbolic but it’s better than nothing. It demonstrates their continued objection to something that they feel isn’t right. Whether it’s as relatively trivial as football with AFC Wimbledon, or as serious as Irish home rule with James McClean or Eoin Morgan, or representing oppressed communities with Colin Kaepernick, or indeed raised fists by Tommie Smith and John Carlos small actions might seem petty but they can have a far wider significance.
So do you approve of McClean’s refusal to wear a poppy on his shirt and turn his back on the national anthem despite the fact that thousands of Irish people died in two world wars and that he’s obviously happy to earn very good money from a country he appears to despise?
We can't have it both ways, @glasshalffull. Either everyone can make these small public gestures of conscience, whether we agree with their cause, or none of us can.
@HCblue said:
We can't have it both ways, glasshalffull. Either everyone can make these small public gestures of conscience, whether we agree with their cause, or none of us can.
I know what you’re saying but I just find McClean’s stance on this issue totally hypocritical. I thought Wimbledon’s gesture was petty but in no way did they display any hypocrisy.
Not a story I was familiar with but, based on his words in this article: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/724919/James-McClean-doesn-t-wear-Remembrance-Day-poppy , I understand his perspective and, while tending to disagree with him, see no hypocrisy. Aside from anything else, he's not by any measure of the thing paid by "this country", he's paid by his football club. What is more, I find it understandable that he would have a stronger view of Bloody Sunday than I do. I find his reasoning misplaced in more than one way - I greatly regret the intractable nature of Northern Irish attitudes that leads young men like this to feel obliged to adopt such positions - but he expresses himself clearly and without rancour.
@glasshalffull said:
Yes, I do believe that rules should be obeyed because the alternative is called anarchy.
You’ve kinda got this all backwards. Anarchy is not a state of disorder, but society without hierarchy - there are quite a few anarchist societies around the world living in peaceful and orderly communities - lack of singular authority rarely leads to disorder. The opposite of anarchy is totalitarianism wherein all rules laid down by a strict hierarchical leadership must be obeyed without question - which is what it appears you are advocating.
The vast majority of the world however lives in a middle ground where there’s a social contract between a central authority and its people, but those people have a right to protest. Exercising that right is as important as having laws in the first place. If we followed your way, women would still be barred from voting and slavery would still be legal. I’ll take anarchy over that any day, or even just the right to protest.
@HCblue said:
Not a story I was familiar with but, based on his words in this article: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/724919/James-McClean-doesn-t-wear-Remembrance-Day-poppy , I understand his perspective and, while tending to disagree with him, see no hypocrisy. Aside from anything else, he's not by any measure of the thing paid by "this country", he's paid by his football club. What is more, I find it understandable that he would have a stronger view of Bloody Sunday than I do. I find his reasoning misplaced in more than one way - I greatly regret the intractable nature of Northern Irish attitudes that leads young men like this to feel obliged to adopt such positions - but he expresses himself clearly and without rancour.
Fair comment, clumsy use of words on my behalf. I should have said that he earns a living in a country he seems to disapprove of. He also ignores the fact that the main philosophy of wearing poppies is to respect those who lost their lives defending that country.
It's because of your last sentence that I disagree with his perspective: he's missed the point because of the history of his homeplace and, I assume, his religious background. So we disagree with him.
@glasshalffull said:
I went to both a couple of seasons ago and Kevin Betsy’s late winner at their place was memorable.> Chris said:
So do you approve of McClean’s refusal to wear a poppy on his shirt and turn his back on the national anthem despite the fact that thousands of Irish people died in two world wars and that he’s obviously happy to earn very good money from a country he appears to despise?
Yup. I also don’t wear a poppy. Neither does Harry Smith.
@glasshalffull said:
I should have said that he earns a living in a country he seems to disapprove of. He also ignores the fact that the main philosophy of wearing poppies is to respect those who lost their lives defending that country.
Frankly, I count myself as earning a living in a country I disapprove of and I was born here. Why shouldn’t he put his views out there in the hope of getting people to understand and (perhaps) respect his position?
Most of us will be out of step with the wider public at some point - we just have to do what we can to get the pendulum swinging back in our direction.
I’ve given up wearing a poppy because of the manufactured outrage surrounding them. They are being appropriated by dubious groups who want to promote a nasty, negative, inward-looking Britishness that doesn’t appeal to me. The FA has simply jumped on the bandwagon in recent years in an attempt to connect with its patronising idea of real, passionate, patriotic fans.
And really, what encapsulates rememberance more than a millionaire screaming abuse after being caught out cheating while advertising offshore betting services?
Very much with you on the manufactured outrage point, @arnos_grove and, while I disagree with his reasoning in this case, also with you on your first paragraph.
@arnos_grove said:
And really, what encapsulates rememberance more than a millionaire screaming abuse after being caught out cheating while advertising offshore betting services?
I never said that he shouldn’t put his views out there, I just said that I find his stance hypocritical. Not sure why you disapprove of the country you live in but that’s your business not mine.
I know that he’s an Irish cricketer who captains the England one day team but I’m not aware of (or have forgotten, more likely) any controversy apart from his decision not to go to a country (?Pakistan) with the England team because of security fears. He was by no means alone in that respect.
I sympathise with Maclean's position and I am from an army family. Surely it would be more hypocritical for him to wear the poppy than not. I wear one but I can see why others might not and the point is the wars were fought for the right not to be told what to do by the state. which I know is stil hard for a lot of daily mail readers to grasp.
Comments
Shooting the first team with anti-tank missiles after every loss (however popular with some on the terrace) might being down gates in general I reckon @BuckinghamBlue
In what way would putting ‘MK Dons’ rather than ‘MK’ on the scoreboard have been a powerful weapon?
The things that people with limited power do might only be symbolic but it’s better than nothing. It demonstrates their continued objection to something that they feel isn’t right. Whether it’s as relatively trivial as football with AFC Wimbledon, or as serious as Irish home rule with James McClean or Eoin Morgan, or representing oppressed communities with Colin Kaepernick, or indeed raised fists by Tommie Smith and John Carlos small actions might seem petty but they can have a far wider significance.
I'm not necessarily saying we should do this, because he's a bit evil and that. But I do like the idea of WW adopting Kim Jong Un and sending him out loads of free merchandise and shirts etc. He clearly likes a bit of flattery. Imagine if he was snapped visiting a nuclear missile test site or something wearing a Wycombe Wanderers bucket hat. Then he could come over and enjoy a day out in a box for the Col U game.
Yes @Chris that didn’t make much sense to me either how can doing exactly what the franchise wants be a more powerful weapon
@Jonny_King I get your thinking. And Donald Trump...a bit of ego massaging and we could become the dictators of the world team of choice. No publicity is bad publicity! we'd better get there first before MK Dons press team turn their attentions away from Aylesbury and towards Washington DC. Bayo, Paris, Nathan T and Anthony Stewart take the knee and we're front page news worldwide...
Just arrived in Coventry, traffic surprisingly light. Genuine question (not trying to be provocative), wondered how many people who understandably resent MK Dons went to see their games against WWFC when we were in the same division?
Home yes, away no.
Same: home yes, away no.
No. Would never attend a game involving them
@BuckinghamBlue Not sure how many 'workers cooperatives' there are in NK, unless working at gunpoint to line the pockets of Kim Jong-Un is now the definition of a cooperative these days.
Back to the subject of AFCW's refusal to associate the Franchise with the 'Dons' part of the name that forcibly reminds them of the murder of Wimbledon FC, they could have been a bit more subtle and just put 'Milton Keynes' on the scoreboard and told the FA they ran out of pixels on the dot matrix scoreboard to write anything else.
Or they could have borrowed our knackered scoreboard that can't put the name of the opposition on it for whatever reason.
Momentarily read that as MK. Quite a shock to the early morning system.
I went to both a couple of seasons ago and Kevin Betsy’s late winner at their place was memorable.> @Chris said:
So do you approve of McClean’s refusal to wear a poppy on his shirt and turn his back on the national anthem despite the fact that thousands of Irish people died in two world wars and that he’s obviously happy to earn very good money from a country he appears to despise?
We can't have it both ways, @glasshalffull. Either everyone can make these small public gestures of conscience, whether we agree with their cause, or none of us can.
I know what you’re saying but I just find McClean’s stance on this issue totally hypocritical. I thought Wimbledon’s gesture was petty but in no way did they display any hypocrisy.
Not a story I was familiar with but, based on his words in this article: https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/724919/James-McClean-doesn-t-wear-Remembrance-Day-poppy , I understand his perspective and, while tending to disagree with him, see no hypocrisy. Aside from anything else, he's not by any measure of the thing paid by "this country", he's paid by his football club. What is more, I find it understandable that he would have a stronger view of Bloody Sunday than I do. I find his reasoning misplaced in more than one way - I greatly regret the intractable nature of Northern Irish attitudes that leads young men like this to feel obliged to adopt such positions - but he expresses himself clearly and without rancour.
You’ve kinda got this all backwards. Anarchy is not a state of disorder, but society without hierarchy - there are quite a few anarchist societies around the world living in peaceful and orderly communities - lack of singular authority rarely leads to disorder. The opposite of anarchy is totalitarianism wherein all rules laid down by a strict hierarchical leadership must be obeyed without question - which is what it appears you are advocating.
The vast majority of the world however lives in a middle ground where there’s a social contract between a central authority and its people, but those people have a right to protest. Exercising that right is as important as having laws in the first place. If we followed your way, women would still be barred from voting and slavery would still be legal. I’ll take anarchy over that any day, or even just the right to protest.
Fair comment, clumsy use of words on my behalf. I should have said that he earns a living in a country he seems to disapprove of. He also ignores the fact that the main philosophy of wearing poppies is to respect those who lost their lives defending that country.
It's because of your last sentence that I disagree with his perspective: he's missed the point because of the history of his homeplace and, I assume, his religious background. So we disagree with him.
Yup. I also don’t wear a poppy. Neither does Harry Smith.
The former Sittingbourne striker? Didn't know that
Blimey! That's three of you then! I hadn't realised that the tide had turned to such an extent.
Frankly, I count myself as earning a living in a country I disapprove of and I was born here. Why shouldn’t he put his views out there in the hope of getting people to understand and (perhaps) respect his position?
Most of us will be out of step with the wider public at some point - we just have to do what we can to get the pendulum swinging back in our direction.
I’ve given up wearing a poppy because of the manufactured outrage surrounding them. They are being appropriated by dubious groups who want to promote a nasty, negative, inward-looking Britishness that doesn’t appeal to me. The FA has simply jumped on the bandwagon in recent years in an attempt to connect with its patronising idea of real, passionate, patriotic fans.
And really, what encapsulates rememberance more than a millionaire screaming abuse after being caught out cheating while advertising offshore betting services?
Very much with you on the manufactured outrage point, @arnos_grove and, while I disagree with his reasoning in this case, also with you on your first paragraph.
I never said that he shouldn’t put his views out there, I just said that I find his stance hypocritical. Not sure why you disapprove of the country you live in but that’s your business not mine.
Probably it would be a more powerful weapon for him to wear a poppy and sing the national anthem.
Forgive my ignorance, but who is Eoin Morgan and what's the controversy there?
I know that he’s an Irish cricketer who captains the England one day team but I’m not aware of (or have forgotten, more likely) any controversy apart from his decision not to go to a country (?Pakistan) with the England team because of security fears. He was by no means alone in that respect.
He also doesn’t sing the national anthem. Not particularly controversial.
I sympathise with Maclean's position and I am from an army family. Surely it would be more hypocritical for him to wear the poppy than not. I wear one but I can see why others might not and the point is the wars were fought for the right not to be told what to do by the state. which I know is stil hard for a lot of daily mail readers to grasp.