I do hope (like @arnos_grove I guess) that this thread doesn't go all political about the relative disposable incomes of ancients like me versus the 25-34 year olds. @rmjLondon excepted, the tone so far has been positive and pleasant. Not holding my breath of course.
@micra said:
I do hope (like arnos_grove I guess) that this thread doesn't go all political about the relative disposable incomes of ancients like me versus the 25-34 year olds.
rmjLondon excepted, the tone so far has been positive and pleasant. Not holding my breath of course.
I'm not trying to have a go at the older people, and the ticket prices are reasonable I guess, I'll definitely be renewing, but I do think the coin would be better off not discounting OAPs and slightly lowering the general cost... Or even not and pocketing the extra cash towards playing staff if the general price is deemed low enough already.
No, just that there is no justification on the basis of the average pensioner's finances that they should be given a discount.
There may be other reasons to offer a senior discount; and offering discounts to other age groups as well as or instead of the senior discount might also be worth considering.
@Malone said:
So have we decided then, that OAPs should actually have to pay MORE than everyone else as they're so exceptionally loaded?
No, I've clearly not said that anywhere, just that I don't understand the need for a blanket OAP discount.
IMO there maybe should be a small OAP discount on some seated areas (as OAPs may not have the option of standing so can't get the cheap terrace tickets), but should largely just be in with the general pricing levels.
As I said when I first raised this a couple of years ago, logically Username is correct but in practise very much in the "too hard to implement without excess bad publicity" box.
Do agree that reducing prices at 60, based as it was on a women's retirement age long now gone, is particularly ridiculous. I'd start moving it up a year at a time now (61 this year, 62 next year etc etc). Does mean I'll remain close but not quite there for a bit longer on my rare visits to watch the partridges though.
No traction in the argument that a lot of the pensioner ST holders around me (not me I tell you NOT ME!!!) have been going to Wycombe for a long long time and have pumped quite a lot into the club over the years? No? Let's piss them off...who needs them? Next up bloody noisy kids...
@Wendoverman said:
No traction in the argument that a lot of the pensioner ST holders around me (not me I tell you NOT ME!!!) have been going to Wycombe for a long long time and have pumped quite a lot into the club over the years? No? Let's piss them off...who needs them? Next up bloody noisy kids...
Pensioners having a sense of entitlement to cheaper prices without justification isn't the clubs fault, and isn't really a good reason to not do something if the idea is fully costs/ thought out.
There'd be moaning for a season then it'd be the norm.
So what do we do? Get ATOS in to means test anyone wanting a senior ticket? Maybe check their cardigans to see if they're threadbare enough, or check and see if they can afford membership of the local golf club?
Some pensioners are relatively well off, plenty of others less so. Like many things in life older people have very often earned a few privileges when it comes to ticket prices.
And I say that as someone a good few years off qualifying myself.
Looking at the figures (Pensions Policy Unit) about 80% of all pensioners currently receive an occupational or personal pension on top of their state pension, which crudely suggests we are probably pricing around 20% of the pensioner market out of the ST equation.
Using a Dev-type approach that is probably acceptable in cold financial terms although I agree there are good emotional grounds for offering long-suffering supporters a generous 'reward' for the thousands of pounds they have spent following the club over the years!
More worryingly though the PPU figures suggest that of those in work and nearing retirement age only a little over half are also contributing into a personal or work pension plan, which does suggest that the days of most pensioners having money to throw away on the likes of a WWFC season ticket may soon be coming to an end.
@Username not wishing to be too patronising but your generation (I'm guessing you are comfortably below 40) may be rather glad in a few years time that we don't idly let pensioner perks disappear into history. They will be a lot harder to get back if they are lost
Username not wishing to be too patronising but your generation (I'm guessing you are comfortably below 40) may be rather glad in a few years time that we don't idly let pensioner perks disappear into history. They will be a lot harder to get back if they are lost
I think they should come and go depending on the relative wealth of the generation at the time. A few years back and they were definitely appropriate, right now, pensioners as a group are generally no worse off than the working population so don't need extra financial rewards.
If in 5 / 10 years that changes then fine bring it back, no problem.
The pension discounts will have to at least move up in age range or the majority of people in the ground will be on discounted tickets, we're only getting older, I'm sure I won't get to retire till I'm 70/75 unless I do well for myself.
Just to be clear, those of us who are old enough that we will get state pension before too long, however, are really very grateful for you continuing to work hard to pay the tax to fund it in the meantime though. Cheers mate.
Surely the one point that everyone can agree with is that 60 is a ridiculously young age to be offering a "senior" discount? Personally, I find the £13 discount for an Early Bird in the Frank Adams upper tier much less of an insult than being referred to as an "OAP". And yes, I do qualify (just) for the discount. But I hope and expect to be working for a good few years yet.
I don't think our season tickets are great value but still renewed again anyway and if the money is being pumped straight back into the playing budget then happy days.
Isn't it something like £22 in the Frank Adams stand on the day, as opposed to about £13.90 pro rata per game on a season ticket? Maybe you chaps are talking other areas, or other ages.
At the end of the day, if we make it too cheap, it'll barely go anywhere.
Most pensioners are not rolling in it and therefore we should do what we can to encourage said demographic to visit AP and if possible for the whole season. I remember being able to gain entry to Loakes Park for £1 as a junior when I was earning good money delivering newspapers and providing retail counter services.
@JohnnyAllAlone , i think he'd have started his time with us not a million miles off that, although that'd be based on a terrific season of bonuses.
Now, not so much
There's not many positives to getting old, but free prescriptions, senior railcard and discounted season ticket all make being over 60 just that tiny bit better.
To be fair, most clubs seem to put the cut at 65 and it wouldn't bother me if we did that.
I agree. As far as football is concerned a discount makes all the difference whether an older person decides to attend. There are an awful lot of other things to do rather than involve yourself in all the hassle of watching football at league level.
@wingnut said:
I agree. As far as football is concerned a discount makes all the difference whether an older person decides to attend. There are an awful lot of other things to do rather than involve yourself in all the hassle of watching football at league level.
You'd have to be pretty penny-pinching and/or uncommitted to base a decision on the miniscule discount offered by Wycombe Wanderers!
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/23/the-guardian-view-on-generational-inequality-a-country-fit-for-all-ages
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/13/pensioners-now-20-a-week-better-off-than-working-households
I do hope (like @arnos_grove I guess) that this thread doesn't go all political about the relative disposable incomes of ancients like me versus the 25-34 year olds.
@rmjLondon excepted, the tone so far has been positive and pleasant. Not holding my breath of course.
I'm not trying to have a go at the older people, and the ticket prices are reasonable I guess, I'll definitely be renewing, but I do think the coin would be better off not discounting OAPs and slightly lowering the general cost... Or even not and pocketing the extra cash towards playing staff if the general price is deemed low enough already.
So have we decided then, that OAPs should actually have to pay MORE than everyone else as they're so exceptionally loaded?
No, just that there is no justification on the basis of the average pensioner's finances that they should be given a discount.
There may be other reasons to offer a senior discount; and offering discounts to other age groups as well as or instead of the senior discount might also be worth considering.
My parents, as rich as Croesus, are entitled to government subsidy for their winter heating bills.
I, emphatically less well-resourced, am not.
This is, I think, @Username 's point about ticket prices. I agree with it.
No, I've clearly not said that anywhere, just that I don't understand the need for a blanket OAP discount.
IMO there maybe should be a small OAP discount on some seated areas (as OAPs may not have the option of standing so can't get the cheap terrace tickets), but should largely just be in with the general pricing levels.
As I said when I first raised this a couple of years ago, logically Username is correct but in practise very much in the "too hard to implement without excess bad publicity" box.
Do agree that reducing prices at 60, based as it was on a women's retirement age long now gone, is particularly ridiculous. I'd start moving it up a year at a time now (61 this year, 62 next year etc etc). Does mean I'll remain close but not quite there for a bit longer on my rare visits to watch the partridges though.
No traction in the argument that a lot of the pensioner ST holders around me (not me I tell you NOT ME!!!) have been going to Wycombe for a long long time and have pumped quite a lot into the club over the years? No? Let's piss them off...who needs them? Next up bloody noisy kids...
Pensioners having a sense of entitlement to cheaper prices without justification isn't the clubs fault, and isn't really a good reason to not do something if the idea is fully costs/ thought out.
There'd be moaning for a season then it'd be the norm.
So what do we do? Get ATOS in to means test anyone wanting a senior ticket? Maybe check their cardigans to see if they're threadbare enough, or check and see if they can afford membership of the local golf club?
Some pensioners are relatively well off, plenty of others less so. Like many things in life older people have very often earned a few privileges when it comes to ticket prices.
And I say that as someone a good few years off qualifying myself.
Looking at the figures (Pensions Policy Unit) about 80% of all pensioners currently receive an occupational or personal pension on top of their state pension, which crudely suggests we are probably pricing around 20% of the pensioner market out of the ST equation.
Using a Dev-type approach that is probably acceptable in cold financial terms although I agree there are good emotional grounds for offering long-suffering supporters a generous 'reward' for the thousands of pounds they have spent following the club over the years!
More worryingly though the PPU figures suggest that of those in work and nearing retirement age only a little over half are also contributing into a personal or work pension plan, which does suggest that the days of most pensioners having money to throw away on the likes of a WWFC season ticket may soon be coming to an end.
@Username not wishing to be too patronising but your generation (I'm guessing you are comfortably below 40) may be rather glad in a few years time that we don't idly let pensioner perks disappear into history. They will be a lot harder to get back if they are lost
@bookertease indeed. @username ALL pensioners have that awful sense of entitlement don't they? Bastards.
I think they should come and go depending on the relative wealth of the generation at the time. A few years back and they were definitely appropriate, right now, pensioners as a group are generally no worse off than the working population so don't need extra financial rewards.
If in 5 / 10 years that changes then fine bring it back, no problem.
The pension discounts will have to at least move up in age range or the majority of people in the ground will be on discounted tickets, we're only getting older, I'm sure I won't get to retire till I'm 70/75 unless I do well for myself.
@username, by the time you get anywhere near there won't even be a state pension.
Malone is probably right, @username,
Just to be clear, those of us who are old enough that we will get state pension before too long, however, are really very grateful for you continuing to work hard to pay the tax to fund it in the meantime though. Cheers mate.
I'm not in a position to be relying on there being one either fortunately/ hopefully.
@Malone said:
@username, by the time you get anywhere near there won't even be a state pension.
The way things are going there might not even be a state.
Surely the one point that everyone can agree with is that 60 is a ridiculously young age to be offering a "senior" discount? Personally, I find the £13 discount for an Early Bird in the Frank Adams upper tier much less of an insult than being referred to as an "OAP". And yes, I do qualify (just) for the discount. But I hope and expect to be working for a good few years yet.
I don't think our season tickets are great value but still renewed again anyway and if the money is being pumped straight back into the playing budget then happy days.
Isn't it something like £22 in the Frank Adams stand on the day, as opposed to about £13.90 pro rata per game on a season ticket? Maybe you chaps are talking other areas, or other ages.
At the end of the day, if we make it too cheap, it'll barely go anywhere.
How far does my £300 odd quid go?
Paying for 1 single day of Paul Hayes salary?
Most pensioners are not rolling in it and therefore we should do what we can to encourage said demographic to visit AP and if possible for the whole season. I remember being able to gain entry to Loakes Park for £1 as a junior when I was earning good money delivering newspapers and providing retail counter services.
Surely Today's pensioners were paying taxes 25-30 years ago to allow today's 25-40 year supporters the gift of a Children's allowance .
@Malone Are you suggesting that Paul Hayes is on about £100k a year as I have not seen any individual salary figures ?
Childrens' Allowance is not universal...
@JohnnyAllAlone , i think he'd have started his time with us not a million miles off that, although that'd be based on a terrific season of bonuses.
Now, not so much
There's not many positives to getting old, but free prescriptions, senior railcard and discounted season ticket all make being over 60 just that tiny bit better.
To be fair, most clubs seem to put the cut at 65 and it wouldn't bother me if we did that.
I agree. As far as football is concerned a discount makes all the difference whether an older person decides to attend. There are an awful lot of other things to do rather than involve yourself in all the hassle of watching football at league level.
You'd have to be pretty penny-pinching and/or uncommitted to base a decision on the miniscule discount offered by Wycombe Wanderers!