@Ciderk1d said:
bookertease; My next door neighbour made punt on a dead cert, got it wrong and my wife has given his wife monies over the fence to pay their household bills.
And that's what being a Homo Sapiens in the 21st Crntury should be about
haha @bookertease; it's all fun, till I can't pay our vet bill.
On as serious note. The EU is not restricted by region/continent, so your global village can be a reality as long as the eager Countries meet the EU criteria and conditions.
Imagine that, the EU stretching to the coasts of Eritrea to Myanmar.
The part of me that wants out points out that even the most ardent remain spokesman struggles to say that the EU isn't inefficient undemocratic and rife with fraud
Here's my prediction for Camerons next day podium speech.
Vote remain Smug face blah blah confidence of the electorate blah blah my tough negotiation better together smile.
Vote leave Concerned face blah blah I'm listening blah blah emergency summit blah blah hint at second vote.
For those of you wanting to hear some of the best arguments for remaining in the EU without the overblown campaign rhetoric, I suggest you spend five minutes with this LSE blogpost for the economic arguments and then watch this video by Gordon Brown (yes, I know!) for the social arguments.
@Chris 1988! 1988! You think that event has shaped his political philosophy since? Come on. Once again, Trump is a man with no policies, only sound bites. He knows what to say an when to day it, but as for what he actually believes? Conservative Republicans are not grown in the soil he's planted in.
@eric_plant A Trump presidency would be the worst thing ever to happen to the USA. A Clinton presidency the second worse.
Trump is a thick, opportunist, greedy racist with a raft of failed businesses behind him who is basically using the Presidential race to promote his brand. The things he has said about women and Obama just begger belief, his promotion of violence at rallies, quoting of nutty tabloid stories as truth and the idea that government is just saying we are going to be the goodest ever and I am the bestest man in the world and everyone else is an idiot make it frightening to me that yanks are voting for him and people over here say he's talking sense. Let's just remember, Obama has had two terms of racist abuse and being blocked at every junction by a vicious and uncaring Senate. But, despite that, he still won TWO TERMS...which has the right-wing spitting feathers. See also, the idea that bonking Boris, Beery Nige, IDS, Gorgeous George Galloway and Govey are moral, upstanding, kind generous men of the people wanting to lead us to a promised land where everything is all jolly and everyone is equal and enjoying prosperity...and above all 'British' ...(well we all know they mean English don;t we?)..is also risible.
I saw him speak once at a meeting, he was dreadful then and is dreadful now. Not quite part of the rest of the crew that Wendover mentions.
@floyd the second term of the Obama presidency is fairly characterised as being blocked by a Republican majority senate I'd say. The recent Supreme Court appointment palaver being a good example. Obama has tried to be conciliatory and sought compromise, but not found many willing on the other side for whatever reason.
You can't possibly doubt that Obama has faced racism throughout his tenure - just look at the birther movement for one.
Oh aye, the birther movement is ridiculous and embarrassing, but you can not simply write off any opposition to Obama as rascist. It isn't. Blocking an outgoing POTUS from appointing a Supreme Court judge isn't rascist.
Since Obama has implemented one of the the most sweeping societal changes in American history, albeit using the Supreme Court to do it, it's hard to argue that he's been 'blocked at every juncture' by the senate. And the senate exists to block the President, it's called checks and balances. It doesn't make them 'uncaring,' to express the will of the people that put them there.
Eight years of Obama has left America weaker abroad and more divided at home. History won't remember him as kindly as you do.
Not all opposition to Obama is racist, no-one is saying that.
I take issue with 'outgoing' as he had very nearly a quarter of his second term remaining when Garland was nominated.
There's a difference between checks and balances, and the approach taken by the Republicans. The kind of posturing shown during the 2013 debt ceiling and government shut down craziness contributed to the general disaffection with Washington politics and the rise of anti-establishment radicals such as Trump. These are politicians, they should be doing their job and getting the government to run.
'One of the most sweeping societal changes in American history' - sounds like you are the one remembering him more kindly than history. Other than being the first black president, he hasn't achieved much of note.
@Chris I'd call Obergefell one of the most sweeping changes in American history, wouldn't you? That's certainly among his biggest 'achievements.'
The Republicans acted exactly as they should have done in 2013, you can't solve problems simply by printing money. You can't solve the economy by continuing to borrow from the future. They were doing their job, not one of them was sent to Washington to increase the debt ceiling. That is exactly what checks and balances are.
Certainly the disaffection with the establishment has contributed to the rise of Trump, but i'd argue that's because a Republican House and Senate has been too weak on opposing Obama, not because they've done it too much. I think almost anyone in the rural southeast or midwest would tell you the same.
@peterparrotface Putin in the Crimea, ISIS in Syria and Iraq, Chinese expansion in the South China Sea.
Watch the excellent BBC docco series Inside Obama's White House. Amazing inside access and interviews with all involved. Experienced White House Staffers with years of experience were shocked that from Day one of his Presidency, DAY ONE even before they had a Senate majority, Republican leaders made it clear they would not work with Obama on anything AT ALL. Not a thing. They would work to block everything. It had never happened before with any other President of either party. You have to ask yourself, was Obama REALLY too radical more than Clinton or Bush which made it impossible for Democrats and Republicans to work together? Or was there another reason? It is amazing he got anything done at all...and he'll take stick for not realising his original promise...but I think we will be looking back on him as a great president in years to come.
I would completely agree that it was a positive step, but certainly not one of the most sweeping changes in American history, even if we're just talking legal changes. It's the legalisation of a (highly symbolic) administrative procedure. It's hardly the Declaration of Independence, the Thirteenth, Fourteenth or Nineteenth amendment (or indeed many of the other amendments), the Civil Rights Act, or the end of sodomy laws in 2003. Both the start and end of Don't Ask Don't Tell were probably of more practical significance.
@floyd I think our opinions on the Republican actions will never be reconciled, it's simply a difference of political opinion - but of course I'm right though
I think almost anyone in the rural southeast or midwest would tell you the same. - you'd struggle to get almost everyone in any particular region of the world to agree on politics. And for what it's worth I'm expecting, say, Illinois (midwest) and Florida (south east) both to go for Clinton in the upcoming election. Aaaand why is the opinion in those regions more relevant than the rest of the States anyway?
@Chris Obergefell is and will change the fabric of American society. In 100 years, the Obama administration will be remembered for little else.
Those regions aren't more relevant than anywhere else, i just happen to live in the rural southeast. Florida is an anomaly because it's full of retired yankees, Illinois because of Chicago. And tho you're right about getting everyone in a particular area to agree on politics, Obama and Clinton (and Trump) have that effect. Maybe that's his biggest achievement!
We probably never will agree. The beauty of sports, and i think maybe particularly football at our level, is that it brings people together from across every spectrum of life. I agree with @eric_plant on basically nothing except Wycombe Wanderers, and yet still count him as a good friend.
Comments
And that's what being a Homo Sapiens in the 21st Crntury should be about
haha @bookertease; it's all fun, till I can't pay our vet bill.
On as serious note. The EU is not restricted by region/continent, so your global village can be a reality as long as the eager Countries meet the EU criteria and conditions.
Imagine that, the EU stretching to the coasts of Eritrea to Myanmar.
I don't think such dreams will be achieved for a long time. Maybe one day far in the future!
The part of me that wants out points out that even the most ardent remain spokesman struggles to say that the EU isn't inefficient undemocratic and rife with fraud
Here's my prediction for Camerons next day podium speech.
Vote remain Smug face blah blah confidence of the electorate blah blah my tough negotiation better together smile.
Vote leave Concerned face blah blah I'm listening blah blah emergency summit blah blah hint at second vote.
For those of you wanting to hear some of the best arguments for remaining in the EU without the overblown campaign rhetoric, I suggest you spend five minutes with this LSE blogpost for the economic arguments and then watch this video by Gordon Brown (yes, I know!) for the social arguments.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/05/27/dear-friends-this-is-why-i-will-vote-remain-in-the-referendum/
https://www.facebook.com/peoplesincampaign/videos/1053759234700690/
@Chris 1988! 1988! You think that event has shaped his political philosophy since? Come on. Once again, Trump is a man with no policies, only sound bites. He knows what to say an when to day it, but as for what he actually believes? Conservative Republicans are not grown in the soil he's planted in.
@eric_plant A Trump presidency would be the worst thing ever to happen to the USA. A Clinton presidency the second worse.
So you 'are' supporting Clinton?
Good man, me too
@floyd 1988 is too long ago, 2011 too recent. I guess only things that happened in the 1990s are relevant to what Trump really thinks then.
Just because he isn't Ted Cruz doesn't make him the same as Clinton.
I'm fairly sure there are worse things in US history than the presidency of either.
Go team Clinton woop de do imagine an even more personally ambitious Blair in a dress
– P.J. O’Rourke
@eric_plant 'of two evils, choose neither.' If it comes to it in November, i'm happy enough to write in. At least that'll help me sleep at night.
Trump is a thick, opportunist, greedy racist with a raft of failed businesses behind him who is basically using the Presidential race to promote his brand. The things he has said about women and Obama just begger belief, his promotion of violence at rallies, quoting of nutty tabloid stories as truth and the idea that government is just saying we are going to be the goodest ever and I am the bestest man in the world and everyone else is an idiot make it frightening to me that yanks are voting for him and people over here say he's talking sense. Let's just remember, Obama has had two terms of racist abuse and being blocked at every junction by a vicious and uncaring Senate. But, despite that, he still won TWO TERMS...which has the right-wing spitting feathers. See also, the idea that bonking Boris, Beery Nige, IDS, Gorgeous George Galloway and Govey are moral, upstanding, kind generous men of the people wanting to lead us to a promised land where everything is all jolly and everyone is equal and enjoying prosperity...and above all 'British' ...(well we all know they mean English don;t we?)..is also risible.
Couldn't agree more @Wendoverman
That is an incredible view of Obama's presidency. And when i say incredible, i mean wrong.
@Chris Thanks. Having said all that...it's shame it's Hillary!
"George Galloway" an English nationalist wow
I saw him speak once at a meeting, he was dreadful then and is dreadful now. Not quite part of the rest of the crew that Wendover mentions.
@floyd the second term of the Obama presidency is fairly characterised as being blocked by a Republican majority senate I'd say. The recent Supreme Court appointment palaver being a good example. Obama has tried to be conciliatory and sought compromise, but not found many willing on the other side for whatever reason.
You can't possibly doubt that Obama has faced racism throughout his tenure - just look at the birther movement for one.
Oh aye, the birther movement is ridiculous and embarrassing, but you can not simply write off any opposition to Obama as rascist. It isn't. Blocking an outgoing POTUS from appointing a Supreme Court judge isn't rascist.
Since Obama has implemented one of the the most sweeping societal changes in American history, albeit using the Supreme Court to do it, it's hard to argue that he's been 'blocked at every juncture' by the senate. And the senate exists to block the President, it's called checks and balances. It doesn't make them 'uncaring,' to express the will of the people that put them there.
Eight years of Obama has left America weaker abroad and more divided at home. History won't remember him as kindly as you do.
This thread needs [citation needed] under every post.
@floyd how is it weaker abroad?
Not all opposition to Obama is racist, no-one is saying that.
I take issue with 'outgoing' as he had very nearly a quarter of his second term remaining when Garland was nominated.
There's a difference between checks and balances, and the approach taken by the Republicans. The kind of posturing shown during the 2013 debt ceiling and government shut down craziness contributed to the general disaffection with Washington politics and the rise of anti-establishment radicals such as Trump. These are politicians, they should be doing their job and getting the government to run.
'One of the most sweeping societal changes in American history' - sounds like you are the one remembering him more kindly than history. Other than being the first black president, he hasn't achieved much of note.
@Chris I'd call Obergefell one of the most sweeping changes in American history, wouldn't you? That's certainly among his biggest 'achievements.'
The Republicans acted exactly as they should have done in 2013, you can't solve problems simply by printing money. You can't solve the economy by continuing to borrow from the future. They were doing their job, not one of them was sent to Washington to increase the debt ceiling. That is exactly what checks and balances are.
Certainly the disaffection with the establishment has contributed to the rise of Trump, but i'd argue that's because a Republican House and Senate has been too weak on opposing Obama, not because they've done it too much. I think almost anyone in the rural southeast or midwest would tell you the same.
@peterparrotface Putin in the Crimea, ISIS in Syria and Iraq, Chinese expansion in the South China Sea.
Watch the excellent BBC docco series Inside Obama's White House. Amazing inside access and interviews with all involved. Experienced White House Staffers with years of experience were shocked that from Day one of his Presidency, DAY ONE even before they had a Senate majority, Republican leaders made it clear they would not work with Obama on anything AT ALL. Not a thing. They would work to block everything. It had never happened before with any other President of either party. You have to ask yourself, was Obama REALLY too radical more than Clinton or Bush which made it impossible for Democrats and Republicans to work together? Or was there another reason? It is amazing he got anything done at all...and he'll take stick for not realising his original promise...but I think we will be looking back on him as a great president in years to come.
@floyd thanks. And Obergefell is the legalisation of same sex marriage yeah?
Yeah I had to look that up as well. That would certainly seem to be an achievement to me
I would completely agree that it was a positive step, but certainly not one of the most sweeping changes in American history, even if we're just talking legal changes. It's the legalisation of a (highly symbolic) administrative procedure. It's hardly the Declaration of Independence, the Thirteenth, Fourteenth or Nineteenth amendment (or indeed many of the other amendments), the Civil Rights Act, or the end of sodomy laws in 2003. Both the start and end of Don't Ask Don't Tell were probably of more practical significance.
And just as I wouldn't give Bush the credit for the Supreme Court decision in 2003, I'm hesitant to give Obama too much credit here. Although this article http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/07/01/supreme_court_gay_marriage_obama_s_decision_not_to_defend_doma_was_key.html suggests he deserves some praise at least.
@floyd I think our opinions on the Republican actions will never be reconciled, it's simply a difference of political opinion - but of course I'm right though
I think almost anyone in the rural southeast or midwest would tell you the same. - you'd struggle to get almost everyone in any particular region of the world to agree on politics. And for what it's worth I'm expecting, say, Illinois (midwest) and Florida (south east) both to go for Clinton in the upcoming election. Aaaand why is the opinion in those regions more relevant than the rest of the States anyway?
@Chris Obergefell is and will change the fabric of American society. In 100 years, the Obama administration will be remembered for little else.
Those regions aren't more relevant than anywhere else, i just happen to live in the rural southeast. Florida is an anomaly because it's full of retired yankees, Illinois because of Chicago. And tho you're right about getting everyone in a particular area to agree on politics, Obama and Clinton (and Trump) have that effect. Maybe that's his biggest achievement!
We probably never will agree. The beauty of sports, and i think maybe particularly football at our level, is that it brings people together from across every spectrum of life. I agree with @eric_plant on basically nothing except Wycombe Wanderers, and yet still count him as a good friend.
Couldn't agree more my friend
(The last bit that is, the rest was total nonsense, obviously)
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