Playing so many top teams in the run in I see as a positive test of our suitability for promotion, it’s down to us and not looking at rival results elsewhere. These are genuine six pointers, beat them or draw and we are worthy of second, lose more than we win and we’re are not - ‘the table don’t lie’
I remember when people were worried about Orient, and then they lost 5 in a row. People were worried about Bolton, and they've lost their last two.
Just got to try and win your next game. That's all you have to do. Can't affect what's going on elsewhere so pointless wasting emotional energy on it.
I just think it's really exciting, being right in the mix with fewer than 10 games remaining. This is what you long for as a football fan.
So next game at home to Lincoln is absolutely massive. Let's win that and see where we are. There just feels like there's a rush at the moment for posters to say we're not going to make it so they can say "told you so". It almost feels like it's more important to them to be right, than it is for the team so finish 2nd. Can't imagine being like that but we're all different I guess.
I've always said there will be plenty of time to be gutted if things don't go our way, there's not point getting upset when it might not happen
Yes we can. A full week on the grass to work on a few things will be massive. Personally I’d like Dodds to stick with a fairly fixed squad now rather than bringing players in for a spot in the bench every 3 games but what do I know.
A lot of talk about the run in but the next two are dead rubbers for the opposition, Reading, Bolton and Orient could be out the mix by the time we play them, Stevenage nothing to play for and Stockport likely to have secured a play off spot. Still not easy of course but the Charlton and Huddersfield games are the two tough ones for me. Possibly too optimistic but let’s see.
Excellent post! I find it strange how some people sneer at posters being optimistic about the prospects for a team that has been in the top two for most of the season.
As I put on another thread I would rather we were battling the teams around us and (possibly) taking points than struggling to beat ten potential 'banana skin' teams.
Exciting times. The playoffs is not a disaster...what a season!
Not sure there is any sneering going on. I think the world is generally divided equally between "halffulls" and "halfempties"
Personally I tend to be a halfempty as I find you don't feel so down if it all goes pear shaped. Based on our games left, I am resigned to us finishing 3rd and meeting Wrexham in the play off final.
I agree with pretty much your entire post, what I would add is that frustrations boiled over (for me at least) when we set up with square pegs in round holes and negatively. This seems to be a trait for Dodds so far, although injuries and suspensions have not helped him.
I was raging last night because his tactics and selection could have cost us 3 points and a chance to go 2nd again. We were lucky it was a rubbish Rotherham team. If we select that line up in those positions for the games against 4th to 9th, we will be lucky to get a point.
We are the leading goalscorers in the league, we can attack at will but we seem to be really cautious under Dodds until the last 20 minutes of last night.
I'd like to see us go full throttle and take the game to the opposition, especially now we have Kone and Simons available again. If we come up short, then fine but let's do it in style and get our swagger back. I'd like to see him start to get his tactics right from the off and not have to react as he did last night and against Birmingham.
His starting XI & positions for them last night was hopeless but I believe he can reflect on it, change his plan and get it right for the run in. Well I hope he can, as otherwise it could be a waste of a very talented squad and an opportunity to get promoted.
We have seen he is capable of getting it right - Birmingham away, subs last night. I'd even say hauling Joe Low off was an excellent decision on the night - so he can make big decisions when it matters.
I understand (and enjoy) the day to day frustrations of supporting a football team but have to remind myself it was only five years ago the unthinkable happened and we became a Championship team. Now we are going to do it again and I'm not sure what the correct term is. Unbelievable? Impossible? I suppose if we're having this conversation again in 2030 we can call it 'predictable'.
I suspect in the overall history of the club the 2020's will be known as The Decade It All Went Insane.
I definitely don't see the point of popping any veins over how Wrexham or anyone else are doing, we just need to win our games. If another team does better than us and gets more points, we'll just have to say fair play to them.
Alas, despite my half-empty outlook, the disappointment of missing out on promotion will still hit me like a steam train and I'll be googling for rope.
The prize would be watching my team in the Championship (I've seen us lose to Witton Albion). What kind of consolation is being proved right?
This is where I am too. I didn't get to watch last night (sadly/fortunately) but I'm pleased Dodds switched to three central defenders - I have been hoping he'd do that since the end of January transfer window. The problem I have is that once you've set up with three of the finest central defenders the club has ever had, you then need to go balls to the wall with the other seven outfield players - two aggressive full backs playing high up the pitch, one pivot, two central attacking midfielders etc. Dodds got it half right last night and bought a win. Get it fully right after the international break and we could possibly win every match left this season.
Crucial to making 3 centre backs work is having the other players to fit to that formation. Sadly for us we are missing Harvie and Pattenden, who would be the most natural wingbacks, and Simons is still finding his feet after missing 3 games.
However, I definitely think we have the players who could play that formation - with rotations in the wing back positions, as they have a lot of work to do. Depending on who is fit :-
Don't forget Fred played brilliantly as a wingback in the Championship @Twizz. Would prefer to see him or Back in that position with Harvie or Reach on the other side. Sad for Grimmer and Leahy but Dodds needs to be able to exert authority over the senior players - and I think Jack and Luke would be mature about losing their places in the team if it was because of a change of system that left them with no natural spot.
Arguably, after last few games, Grimmer could start as RCB instead of Joe Low in the next game. I'm not sure it is a long term thing but might be just what Joe needs at the minute.
You talk like it’s simple and you’ve not taken into account the opposition.
If they load up there front line and force back our wing/full backs into defensive positions by exploiting the gaps down the side of 3 man defence with they’re wide players, while occupying our back line with a striker or two, you suddenly end up with a very defensive back 5, a mid field that is over run with the opposition defence stepping up and a front line looking isolated and feeding off of long balls.
Indeed he did, but his form isn't great ATM, although maybe in a different formation he could recover his mojo. Personally I'd use him as an impact sub in that position, but then I don't get to pick the team anyway.
I think people are overreacting a bit just because the formation and selection last night was a bit unconventional.
We had a decade to grow accustomed to football under Gaz which was very direct and quite easy to understand. If Bayo won headers and was given fair treatment from officials that was the game 50% won. Likewise, if we won more loose balls than the opposition we generally did well. I'm simplifying a bit there. But the point is that it was quite easy to see what we were doing well and what we weren't, and to then guage the performance based on a few indicators.
Playing a more tactically complex game isn't as straightforward. Often our best play depends upon opening up space by drawing opposition players out of shape. That means our own outfield players often rotate into odd positions, pop up in unfamiliar roles and find their own technical limits stretched at times.
Sometimes that results in a game that feels a bit disjointed and it's difficult to work out exactly what we're trying to achieve. That doesn't necessarily mean we're playing badly, that the shape and selection was wrong or that the manager needs to change things.
Personally I find it a bit boring at times because the pace can be really slow and sometimes we just cannot get out effectively playing football from the back. The same was true under Bloomfield quite often. But when we get it right the attacking play is great.
I hear you but I also think we are 2nd for a reason - we have one of the two best squads in the league. And if we had to say which of our attack, midfield and defence was the strongest line of the three, I'd wager most of us would say defence. We should be able to trust Taylor, Low and Bradley to block whichever overloaded front line they're up against, especially with two capable wingbacks to assist - and last year's League One keeper of the year behind them. What we need to do though is remain confident and remain disciplined and make sure we keep an attacking shape. Because if our opponents are overloading their attack, all we need is a quick ball through to Simons, onto Humphreys and then onto Kone and we're away.
I 100% don’t disagree with the theory and yes, we are blessed with excellent cb’s, but the fact remains if the opposition pushes your fullbacks into defensive positions, you end up with 50% of your out field players the Furthest away from your opponents goal defending against 2 wingers playing on the touch lines, one or two central strikers (so 4 opposition players) playing the gaps between the central and LCB/RCB’s.
Your mid field is over run because the opposition have an extra man in there and your strikers have to be extraordinarily good at holding the ball up or come deep to receive the ball (which Kone is btw, but you are requiring him to pull of miracles every game)
This has always been the Achilles heel of a 3 Cb’s and 2 flying wing backs. It’s a thing of beauty when it works. But when/if the opposition win the midfield battle, it becomes a flat back 5.
I could definitely be persuaded that these sluggish recent performances are actually the result of highly sophisticated tactics that I don’t understand. In fact, I’ve been plucking up the courage for days to ask what this ‘pivot / double pivot’ is that you’ve all started talking about.
I imagine given the time most supporters would make pretty good tacticians. Perhaps better than a lot of people in the game.
All I'm saying is that the management/coaching team spend all week working on this stuff, so it's reasonable to expect there's a logical strategy behind the formation and tactics. So while it might feel irritating, there's going to be a good reason for players appearing in odd positions or a strange shape.
Watching 45 minutes and concluding the answer must obviously be 'round pegs for round holes' is probably too simplistic.
Comments
If we can play that badly and win scoring three then finishing second has to be a distinct possibility.
It’s not blind optimism it’s fact.
They haven’t.
Playing so many top teams in the run in I see as a positive test of our suitability for promotion, it’s down to us and not looking at rival results elsewhere. These are genuine six pointers, beat them or draw and we are worthy of second, lose more than we win and we’re are not - ‘the table don’t lie’
What's interesting is, apart from Charlton no teams have pulled serious points in us since December. Stockport have pulled back 5 I think.
So, while we aren't great, no one else is, apart from Charlton who have done the opposite, started poorly then had a great run.
We can finish second, but I'm a very negative fan, and can't see it.
I remember when people were worried about Orient, and then they lost 5 in a row. People were worried about Bolton, and they've lost their last two.
Just got to try and win your next game. That's all you have to do. Can't affect what's going on elsewhere so pointless wasting emotional energy on it.
I just think it's really exciting, being right in the mix with fewer than 10 games remaining. This is what you long for as a football fan.
So next game at home to Lincoln is absolutely massive. Let's win that and see where we are. There just feels like there's a rush at the moment for posters to say we're not going to make it so they can say "told you so". It almost feels like it's more important to them to be right, than it is for the team so finish 2nd. Can't imagine being like that but we're all different I guess.
I've always said there will be plenty of time to be gutted if things don't go our way, there's not point getting upset when it might not happen
Yes we can. A full week on the grass to work on a few things will be massive. Personally I’d like Dodds to stick with a fairly fixed squad now rather than bringing players in for a spot in the bench every 3 games but what do I know.
A lot of talk about the run in but the next two are dead rubbers for the opposition, Reading, Bolton and Orient could be out the mix by the time we play them, Stevenage nothing to play for and Stockport likely to have secured a play off spot. Still not easy of course but the Charlton and Huddersfield games are the two tough ones for me. Possibly too optimistic but let’s see.
Excellent post! I find it strange how some people sneer at posters being optimistic about the prospects for a team that has been in the top two for most of the season.
As I put on another thread I would rather we were battling the teams around us and (possibly) taking points than struggling to beat ten potential 'banana skin' teams.
Exciting times. The playoffs is not a disaster...what a season!
Not sure there is any sneering going on. I think the world is generally divided equally between "halffulls" and "halfempties"
Personally I tend to be a halfempty as I find you don't feel so down if it all goes pear shaped. Based on our games left, I am resigned to us finishing 3rd and meeting Wrexham in the play off final.
I agree with pretty much your entire post, what I would add is that frustrations boiled over (for me at least) when we set up with square pegs in round holes and negatively. This seems to be a trait for Dodds so far, although injuries and suspensions have not helped him.
I was raging last night because his tactics and selection could have cost us 3 points and a chance to go 2nd again. We were lucky it was a rubbish Rotherham team. If we select that line up in those positions for the games against 4th to 9th, we will be lucky to get a point.
We are the leading goalscorers in the league, we can attack at will but we seem to be really cautious under Dodds until the last 20 minutes of last night.
I'd like to see us go full throttle and take the game to the opposition, especially now we have Kone and Simons available again. If we come up short, then fine but let's do it in style and get our swagger back. I'd like to see him start to get his tactics right from the off and not have to react as he did last night and against Birmingham.
His starting XI & positions for them last night was hopeless but I believe he can reflect on it, change his plan and get it right for the run in. Well I hope he can, as otherwise it could be a waste of a very talented squad and an opportunity to get promoted.
We have seen he is capable of getting it right - Birmingham away, subs last night. I'd even say hauling Joe Low off was an excellent decision on the night - so he can make big decisions when it matters.
I understand (and enjoy) the day to day frustrations of supporting a football team but have to remind myself it was only five years ago the unthinkable happened and we became a Championship team. Now we are going to do it again and I'm not sure what the correct term is. Unbelievable? Impossible? I suppose if we're having this conversation again in 2030 we can call it 'predictable'.
I suspect in the overall history of the club the 2020's will be known as The Decade It All Went Insane.
Lucky us!
I definitely don't see the point of popping any veins over how Wrexham or anyone else are doing, we just need to win our games. If another team does better than us and gets more points, we'll just have to say fair play to them.
Alas, despite my half-empty outlook, the disappointment of missing out on promotion will still hit me like a steam train and I'll be googling for rope.
The prize would be watching my team in the Championship (I've seen us lose to Witton Albion). What kind of consolation is being proved right?
This is where I am too. I didn't get to watch last night (sadly/fortunately) but I'm pleased Dodds switched to three central defenders - I have been hoping he'd do that since the end of January transfer window. The problem I have is that once you've set up with three of the finest central defenders the club has ever had, you then need to go balls to the wall with the other seven outfield players - two aggressive full backs playing high up the pitch, one pivot, two central attacking midfielders etc. Dodds got it half right last night and bought a win. Get it fully right after the international break and we could possibly win every match left this season.
Crucial to making 3 centre backs work is having the other players to fit to that formation. Sadly for us we are missing Harvie and Pattenden, who would be the most natural wingbacks, and Simons is still finding his feet after missing 3 games.
However, I definitely think we have the players who could play that formation - with rotations in the wing back positions, as they have a lot of work to do. Depending on who is fit :-
Norris
Kodua/Grimmer Low Bradley Taylor Leahy/Reach
Scowen Simons Humphreys
Kone Udoh
Subs
Rav
Kodua/Grimmer
Leahy/Reach
Lubala
Fred
GMac
Lowry/Westergaard
Don't forget Fred played brilliantly as a wingback in the Championship @Twizz. Would prefer to see him or Back in that position with Harvie or Reach on the other side. Sad for Grimmer and Leahy but Dodds needs to be able to exert authority over the senior players - and I think Jack and Luke would be mature about losing their places in the team if it was because of a change of system that left them with no natural spot.
Arguably, after last few games, Grimmer could start as RCB instead of Joe Low in the next game. I'm not sure it is a long term thing but might be just what Joe needs at the minute.
You talk like it’s simple and you’ve not taken into account the opposition.
If they load up there front line and force back our wing/full backs into defensive positions by exploiting the gaps down the side of 3 man defence with they’re wide players, while occupying our back line with a striker or two, you suddenly end up with a very defensive back 5, a mid field that is over run with the opposition defence stepping up and a front line looking isolated and feeding off of long balls.
Indeed he did, but his form isn't great ATM, although maybe in a different formation he could recover his mojo. Personally I'd use him as an impact sub in that position, but then I don't get to pick the team anyway.
I think people are overreacting a bit just because the formation and selection last night was a bit unconventional.
We had a decade to grow accustomed to football under Gaz which was very direct and quite easy to understand. If Bayo won headers and was given fair treatment from officials that was the game 50% won. Likewise, if we won more loose balls than the opposition we generally did well. I'm simplifying a bit there. But the point is that it was quite easy to see what we were doing well and what we weren't, and to then guage the performance based on a few indicators.
Playing a more tactically complex game isn't as straightforward. Often our best play depends upon opening up space by drawing opposition players out of shape. That means our own outfield players often rotate into odd positions, pop up in unfamiliar roles and find their own technical limits stretched at times.
Sometimes that results in a game that feels a bit disjointed and it's difficult to work out exactly what we're trying to achieve. That doesn't necessarily mean we're playing badly, that the shape and selection was wrong or that the manager needs to change things.
Personally I find it a bit boring at times because the pace can be really slow and sometimes we just cannot get out effectively playing football from the back. The same was true under Bloomfield quite often. But when we get it right the attacking play is great.
I hear you but I also think we are 2nd for a reason - we have one of the two best squads in the league. And if we had to say which of our attack, midfield and defence was the strongest line of the three, I'd wager most of us would say defence. We should be able to trust Taylor, Low and Bradley to block whichever overloaded front line they're up against, especially with two capable wingbacks to assist - and last year's League One keeper of the year behind them. What we need to do though is remain confident and remain disciplined and make sure we keep an attacking shape. Because if our opponents are overloading their attack, all we need is a quick ball through to Simons, onto Humphreys and then onto Kone and we're away.
Stop posting so much sense @aloysius, it's making my brain itch.
Are you suggesting that the problem is with the supporters not being clever enough to understand the tactics that the head coach is trying to employ.
(I know you think I'm pretty dim when it comes to understanding tactics but I'm a small sample)
I 100% don’t disagree with the theory and yes, we are blessed with excellent cb’s, but the fact remains if the opposition pushes your fullbacks into defensive positions, you end up with 50% of your out field players the Furthest away from your opponents goal defending against 2 wingers playing on the touch lines, one or two central strikers (so 4 opposition players) playing the gaps between the central and LCB/RCB’s.
Your mid field is over run because the opposition have an extra man in there and your strikers have to be extraordinarily good at holding the ball up or come deep to receive the ball (which Kone is btw, but you are requiring him to pull of miracles every game)
This has always been the Achilles heel of a 3 Cb’s and 2 flying wing backs. It’s a thing of beauty when it works. But when/if the opposition win the midfield battle, it becomes a flat back 5.
I could definitely be persuaded that these sluggish recent performances are actually the result of highly sophisticated tactics that I don’t understand. In fact, I’ve been plucking up the courage for days to ask what this ‘pivot / double pivot’ is that you’ve all started talking about.
Last years league one keeper of the year has chucked a couple into the net already
Everyone should go easy on Norris. I hear he is training hard for the next game.
I imagine given the time most supporters would make pretty good tacticians. Perhaps better than a lot of people in the game.
All I'm saying is that the management/coaching team spend all week working on this stuff, so it's reasonable to expect there's a logical strategy behind the formation and tactics. So while it might feel irritating, there's going to be a good reason for players appearing in odd positions or a strange shape.
Watching 45 minutes and concluding the answer must obviously be 'round pegs for round holes' is probably too simplistic.
Not sure I've ever disagreed with a Gasroom take more than with that first paragraph!!