I suspect we will be busy in the window with a lot of players exiting permanently or going on loan for four months until the end of their contract.
You have a number of senior players who due to age, injuries, form or players in front of them have hardly played this season and are unlikely too. All of these players have contracts ending in June 2025 or loans that could be changed in Jan 2025.
McCarthy
Taf
Hartridge
Bishop
Vokes
Wheeler to a lesser extent
I suspect we will trim the senior squad down by 3-5 players come January.
Both teams heavily rotated, it was not match fitness, more a lack of desire on our part which has rarely happened in recent times. Very little to be positive about, the players had a chance to stake their claim for a first-team place but failed to do so.
Those agitating for a change in goal, no chance that Ravazolli is deposed. George and Bishop are off the pace. I'd like to see George loaned out and playing regularly to get his sharpness up, so he can come in straight away if needed,
I agree with you up until the disgruntled players bit.
All players want to play, of course, but I've not really seen a lack of attitude of suchlike? Not whooping it up when we score on the bench doesn't necessarily mean someone is hating life here.
’Disgruntled’ is probably too strong of an adjective. Dissatisfied is more appropriate wording.
However, if I’m Tafazolli or Wheeler or McCarthy and I’m a senior pro who has won promotion, or competed in playoffs, or played in the league above multiple times. And when I’m match fit I can’t even make the bench. And when I’m on pizza cup duty in front of an empty Adams Park…
Butcher won the league 18 months ago. He did not even get a 5 minute cameo in a recent home league game.
These players will be asking their agent to salvage their careers. They’re not sticking around in Wycombe’s reserves in calendar year 2025. They’re going to be dissatisfied. They should be replaced by fresher hungrier individuals, potentially of a younger age group.
Would the dissenters to my long post wish to keep Wheeler, Tafa, Jmac and co into CY2025? I certainly don’t.
The other side of the argument is, of course, contractual and financial. But let’s ignore that for now as it’s highly ambiguous.
'Lack of desire' seems to be the go-to criticism that gets thrown out when people can't find anything else wrong. We were bad last night because it was a hodgepdoge team in a soulless competition, nothing more.
It is very difficult to juggle such a big squad and I feel Matt has done a good job of doing that up until now. There have been signs of rustiness in recent games (Wealdstone and Swindon), which will be something we will have to deal with now without the option of a run out in this competition.
I have said in previous posts that the January window will be very interesting for us and will certainly show our intent.
The difference in good performances and bad performances in elite sport is very little. I don't think for a minute the players sat in the dressing room and said 'can't be arsed tonight, you?'. I also don't think individuals were trying to play poorly. However, the reason unexpected results happen in any sport is that sometimes players are not up to their levels and the opponent is higher than their level. If you know why you will be a very rich person and highly in demand. Whatever the cause of the sub-par performance last night it infected pretty much every player as not a single one could come out of that with any merit. Being not up for it, or showing a lack of desire is just a broad description of what we all saw. And thankfully I haven't seen that rubbish since Sutton, Morecambe and Fleetwood last season.
When it became clear how good the signings Bloomfield had made were, we all wondered how we'd keep such a large squad satisfied.
While some dismiss the idea of the lower league cup, the truth is, it was keeping players in games.
Scowen being out has afforded more opportunities to Leahy, Bakinson and to a lesser extend Butcher. Imagine if Scowen hadn't been out for a month or so.
Once we've got through those 4 homes games in 9 days, you'd imagine we'll definitely see a few outbounds, even if just on loan.
Not 100% sure the obvious route to Shrewsbury will be that obvious, distance away, can they afford the players, will they want to go there, will Gaz want them etc - that's a lot of unknowns.
But as everyone reckons McCarthy surely has to find some regular football. He has 1 position and is 3rd choice there.
At least Wheeler has a few positions, although is arguably about 7th choice centre mid and 3rd or 4th choice on the right wing, so probably is actually in a worse position for regular games. But that said, probably more likely to get a bench berth than a 3rd choice right back.
At least we know that with the side we will put out, in the middle of a ridiculously busy schedule, against Portsmouth we won’t have to worry about a long FA Cup run.
Butcher was always a big lad for a midfielder but with little game time he also seems to now be carrying a bit of timber. As a senior pro he needs to have a word with himself, get his head up or move on in Jan.
Surely if any one of those individual players were slotted into the established side for a game, they would, as Skura has shown, do okay with our first 11 around them. Surely bunging them all together does not really give them a chance to 'stake a claim' as they are not playing with anyone they would necessarily be playing with in a League game?
I saw an interesting interview with Ben Foster where he was asked about 'downing tools'. He said he does not believe it happens in the way supporters do, but simply appears that way when players are slightly off their game, psychologically struggling, demotivated by something, etc. In such a high performance industry, even losing a slight percentage can be damaging. I would add that we don't know when a player slept badly, is battling some kind of depression or self-doubt, has something going on off the pitch, etc.
It's not a stretch to think that second stringers playing in front of barely any fans in a less than glamorous trophy might give the appearance of "lack of effort" when it is really anything but.
I didn't see it that way anyway - they just all seemed to have hexagon feet.
I actually DO think we are due a wobble, but it is in a time-honoured style of many of our seasons:
Act One: Hit a purple patch sometime in the first third of the season that ends up resembling those happy montages in movies.
Act Two: Adversity comes, questions arise, and we have a wobble (usually Xmas/Jan or so). This act could be labelled 'The winter of discontent'.
Act Three: We find our form again and have a dramatic end to the season, even if it is bittersweet, such as going down from the Champo after finishing like a top six team.
I am massively optimistic about the overall season, and a wobble won't change that. No-one has forgotten how good Scowen is, but Sadlier seems to be fading in a few memories. We are also quite capable of having a fantastic January in the loan and buying department.
I was at last night's match and deliberately sat where I could see/hear Holloway and his coaches. He'd really got his much-rotated side up for the fixture and they were pressing and charging into challenges with much more snap than Wycombe throughout (over-exemplified by the lad who got a red). So much as I agree that too many Wycombe players were under par (and for some reason there was a disproportionate number of left footed players out there, which broke the rhythm further), Swindon actually deserve some credit for doing their homework on Wycombe's likely tactics and giving the game a little more priority than our squad. Alex Hartridge was certainly there for the warm-up btw. I'm surprised he didn't play.
I think I read somewhere that Hartridge was suspended. As you noted @MJS it is an uncomfortable fact that sometimes on the day/night a manager inspires his players (GA against Birmingham?) and one team just plays better than the other one (us v Stockport) without it necessarily meaning the losing side are just shite.
Bishop is getting way too much stick ! Apart from the 1st goal last night ( and I still say his view was slightly obstructed) what did he do wrong ? No chance with the 2nd goal, and his distribution was decent
To be fair, saying "apart from the goal" when a goalie matadors the ball is a bit like saying "apart from the environmental disaster" when an oil tanker spills into the ocean.
And a little context about Bishop. That was his 5th game since the start of last season. If we think Hanlan is going to be rusty then Bishop is definitely going to be rusty, in a far less forgiving position.
Totally agree. Adding one , two or three to a settled first team makes it easier for them to shine and stake a place. Not so easy when a whole 11 are thrown together with no game time.
The ones where Hartridge was playing instead of Taylor? There was a reason for ignoring them as an indicator of our present defence, you know! I had not wanted to single out Hartridge by name but rather by gentle implication, but I guess sometimes things need spelling out. 😁
Comments
I suspect we will be busy in the window with a lot of players exiting permanently or going on loan for four months until the end of their contract.
You have a number of senior players who due to age, injuries, form or players in front of them have hardly played this season and are unlikely too. All of these players have contracts ending in June 2025 or loans that could be changed in Jan 2025.
McCarthy
Taf
Hartridge
Bishop
Vokes
Wheeler to a lesser extent
I suspect we will trim the senior squad down by 3-5 players come January.
Won't we be putting in an under 21 team in a couple of years time!
I was there, most disappointing.
Both teams heavily rotated, it was not match fitness, more a lack of desire on our part which has rarely happened in recent times. Very little to be positive about, the players had a chance to stake their claim for a first-team place but failed to do so.
Those agitating for a change in goal, no chance that Ravazolli is deposed. George and Bishop are off the pace. I'd like to see George loaned out and playing regularly to get his sharpness up, so he can come in straight away if needed,
I agree with you up until the disgruntled players bit.
All players want to play, of course, but I've not really seen a lack of attitude of suchlike? Not whooping it up when we score on the bench doesn't necessarily mean someone is hating life here.
Agreed. While I hate it when we don't open stands for say the league cup, this cup really doesn't warrant opening a 2nd home stand.
Everyone accepts that we were awful last night, but why do you believe there was a lack of desire, that’s a pretty serious condemnation to deliver?
’Disgruntled’ is probably too strong of an adjective. Dissatisfied is more appropriate wording.
However, if I’m Tafazolli or Wheeler or McCarthy and I’m a senior pro who has won promotion, or competed in playoffs, or played in the league above multiple times. And when I’m match fit I can’t even make the bench. And when I’m on pizza cup duty in front of an empty Adams Park…
Butcher won the league 18 months ago. He did not even get a 5 minute cameo in a recent home league game.
These players will be asking their agent to salvage their careers. They’re not sticking around in Wycombe’s reserves in calendar year 2025. They’re going to be dissatisfied. They should be replaced by fresher hungrier individuals, potentially of a younger age group.
Would the dissenters to my long post wish to keep Wheeler, Tafa, Jmac and co into CY2025? I certainly don’t.
The other side of the argument is, of course, contractual and financial. But let’s ignore that for now as it’s highly ambiguous.
'Lack of desire' seems to be the go-to criticism that gets thrown out when people can't find anything else wrong. We were bad last night because it was a hodgepdoge team in a soulless competition, nothing more.
It is very difficult to juggle such a big squad and I feel Matt has done a good job of doing that up until now. There have been signs of rustiness in recent games (Wealdstone and Swindon), which will be something we will have to deal with now without the option of a run out in this competition.
I have said in previous posts that the January window will be very interesting for us and will certainly show our intent.
The difference in good performances and bad performances in elite sport is very little. I don't think for a minute the players sat in the dressing room and said 'can't be arsed tonight, you?'. I also don't think individuals were trying to play poorly. However, the reason unexpected results happen in any sport is that sometimes players are not up to their levels and the opponent is higher than their level. If you know why you will be a very rich person and highly in demand. Whatever the cause of the sub-par performance last night it infected pretty much every player as not a single one could come out of that with any merit. Being not up for it, or showing a lack of desire is just a broad description of what we all saw. And thankfully I haven't seen that rubbish since Sutton, Morecambe and Fleetwood last season.
When it became clear how good the signings Bloomfield had made were, we all wondered how we'd keep such a large squad satisfied.
While some dismiss the idea of the lower league cup, the truth is, it was keeping players in games.
Scowen being out has afforded more opportunities to Leahy, Bakinson and to a lesser extend Butcher. Imagine if Scowen hadn't been out for a month or so.
Once we've got through those 4 homes games in 9 days, you'd imagine we'll definitely see a few outbounds, even if just on loan.
Not 100% sure the obvious route to Shrewsbury will be that obvious, distance away, can they afford the players, will they want to go there, will Gaz want them etc - that's a lot of unknowns.
But as everyone reckons McCarthy surely has to find some regular football. He has 1 position and is 3rd choice there.
At least Wheeler has a few positions, although is arguably about 7th choice centre mid and 3rd or 4th choice on the right wing, so probably is actually in a worse position for regular games. But that said, probably more likely to get a bench berth than a 3rd choice right back.
At least we know that with the side we will put out, in the middle of a ridiculously busy schedule, against Portsmouth we won’t have to worry about a long FA Cup run.
We surely won't be fielding 3rd choice full backs for that one.
Butcher was always a big lad for a midfielder but with little game time he also seems to now be carrying a bit of timber. As a senior pro he needs to have a word with himself, get his head up or move on in Jan.
Surely if any one of those individual players were slotted into the established side for a game, they would, as Skura has shown, do okay with our first 11 around them. Surely bunging them all together does not really give them a chance to 'stake a claim' as they are not playing with anyone they would necessarily be playing with in a League game?
January will certainly be interesting.
I saw an interesting interview with Ben Foster where he was asked about 'downing tools'. He said he does not believe it happens in the way supporters do, but simply appears that way when players are slightly off their game, psychologically struggling, demotivated by something, etc. In such a high performance industry, even losing a slight percentage can be damaging. I would add that we don't know when a player slept badly, is battling some kind of depression or self-doubt, has something going on off the pitch, etc.
It's not a stretch to think that second stringers playing in front of barely any fans in a less than glamorous trophy might give the appearance of "lack of effort" when it is really anything but.
I didn't see it that way anyway - they just all seemed to have hexagon feet.
I actually DO think we are due a wobble, but it is in a time-honoured style of many of our seasons:
Act One: Hit a purple patch sometime in the first third of the season that ends up resembling those happy montages in movies.
Act Two: Adversity comes, questions arise, and we have a wobble (usually Xmas/Jan or so). This act could be labelled 'The winter of discontent'.
Act Three: We find our form again and have a dramatic end to the season, even if it is bittersweet, such as going down from the Champo after finishing like a top six team.
I am massively optimistic about the overall season, and a wobble won't change that. No-one has forgotten how good Scowen is, but Sadlier seems to be fading in a few memories. We are also quite capable of having a fantastic January in the loan and buying department.
After Bishop's performance perhaps a few Rav haters will get back in their box.
I was at last night's match and deliberately sat where I could see/hear Holloway and his coaches. He'd really got his much-rotated side up for the fixture and they were pressing and charging into challenges with much more snap than Wycombe throughout (over-exemplified by the lad who got a red). So much as I agree that too many Wycombe players were under par (and for some reason there was a disproportionate number of left footed players out there, which broke the rhythm further), Swindon actually deserve some credit for doing their homework on Wycombe's likely tactics and giving the game a little more priority than our squad. Alex Hartridge was certainly there for the warm-up btw. I'm surprised he didn't play.
I think I read somewhere that Hartridge was suspended. As you noted @MJS it is an uncomfortable fact that sometimes on the day/night a manager inspires his players (GA against Birmingham?) and one team just plays better than the other one (us v Stockport) without it necessarily meaning the losing side are just shite.
Here's to bouncing back...
This.
Bishop is getting way too much stick ! Apart from the 1st goal last night ( and I still say his view was slightly obstructed) what did he do wrong ? No chance with the 2nd goal, and his distribution was decent
To be fair, saying "apart from the goal" when a goalie matadors the ball is a bit like saying "apart from the environmental disaster" when an oil tanker spills into the ocean.
And a little context about Bishop. That was his 5th game since the start of last season. If we think Hanlan is going to be rusty then Bishop is definitely going to be rusty, in a far less forgiving position.
Totally agree. Adding one , two or three to a settled first team makes it easier for them to shine and stake a place. Not so easy when a whole 11 are thrown together with no game time.
Hark at old "if you ignore those two games where we let in 3 goals....." 😉
The Rav haters hated Rav before they had even seen him play, so unlikely to change now.
The ones where Hartridge was playing instead of Taylor? There was a reason for ignoring them as an indicator of our present defence, you know! I had not wanted to single out Hartridge by name but rather by gentle implication, but I guess sometimes things need spelling out. 😁
The treatment of Wycombe goalkeepers is always uncertain, anyway.
Allsop saves us at Wembley in the biggest game in our history with a couple of outstanding saves: Not popular.
Stockdale matadors a shot on the same stage: Immensely popular.
This thread now has more comments than the Reading match thread.
A bullshit Trophy match no less. Training ground matches with brown paper envelopes stuffed with greased-up Premier League notes.
And now I’ve added to this malaise. What we need is a guess the ground competition.