we were always due a poor game at some point & lets hope it was this one...would rather we played like pish in the tinpot than in the league.
To be fair to the players brought in they probably had one training session as a team so to bemoan the strenght in depth is a little harsh.
Bishop is coming back from injury & was stuck behind a makeshift defence that will have hardly if ever played together, having said that he filled me with a lot less confidence than either Rav or George, so am unsure why we would or if we will hold onto him come 1/1/25.
Skura is a solid prospect who has performed well when in between 2 experienced defenders who can talk him through the game. Woodhouse has played consistently well for The Daggers & whilst probably isnt yet ready for L1 is definitely not far off. neither were helped by having two very rusty & frankly lethargic players (McCarthy & Taf) alongside them today.
As for the others Bakinson is solid & is probably 4th choice CM after Scowen, Morley & Humphries: Leahy is a bench player at best, Butcher is a huge concern as he looked so good last season & yet his form appears to have nose dived off a cliff - the coaches need to figure out how to get him reinvigorated. Wheels is a legend and model pro but is very rusty & a bit off the pace, I cannot see out of our first choice 18 who you would leave out to accomodate him.
The forwards are all pretty decent, MB needs to just figure out the combinations that do & dont work especially given his propensity to often rotate them heavily.
I think on today's evidence unless we have an illness or injury crisis of immense proportions I struggle to see either McCarthy or Taf playing in the quarters again.
Not a great spectacle tonight. Lost the battle in the centre of park first half which set the tone for most of the evening.
Actually think there was only one good individual performance tonight and that was from Taff - watched him closely tonight and he was good and should be our back up centre half. Don’t think too many of the other current fringe players did themselves any favours but saying that neither did the few that normally start.
Agree that JMac is likely to leave in January, as he's clearly not in Bloomfield's plans
Not so sure about Wheeler and Taf. Wheels is still a very useful player and likely to get a fair bit of game time this season, covering for injuries. Unless we bring in another CB I'd be surprised to see Taf leave. He'd be back in the starting XI if either Low, or Taylor get injured/suspended. That may change of course if we do bring someone else in.
I agree with @Wanderer82 Taf looked much more like his old self tonight but still a bit rusty. Skura really didn’t have a good night and probably needs another loan spell at a league 2 club. Woodhouse showed some good signs but got beaten by the winger for the first goal. Jmac unfortunately looked well out of form, sad.
Gmac, Leahy, Udoh and Bakinson didn’t really look interested. Not convinced by Bishop TBH. Clark showed some good touches.
It’s nearly 9 years since JMac scored that winner against the Pox. He’s been a good servant and provided a few highlights in his numerous spells in the Quarters. If tonight was to be his last hurrah then so be it but I hope he finds a decent new home.
I really think it doesn't help (from a footballing point of view) to have the terrace closed for a match like this. There was very little atmosphere generated by the 400 home fans. I can understand the club wanting to minimise costs but how many terrace regulars were absent because it was shut? I think the club needs to reconsider this.
The thing I don't understand about JMac is the age at which he began to diminish. He just turned 29 but is light years off the player who played for three different clubs in the Champo (I think?) and was excellent for us in the back end of that star crossed season up there.
I hope he can play regularly somewhere for his sake, and I also hope he makes a good coach, as he is clearly heading in that direction with the licenses he has gained and intends to gain.
I thought Taff had a decent game and is definitely useful as Centre back cover…we will have injuries and we need players who are decent and know the system. Wheeler is useful cover too and he’s a great header of the ball…best we have alongside Vokes.
Agree that J Mac is probably surplus to requirements at present and maybe Hanlan too.
We should’ve ripped Wrexham’s hand off for Hanlan - that was obvious pre-ACL
Leahy cannot regularly play as a midfielder for a top six League 1 campaign. He’s a left back as far as I’m concerned.
The depth are strong by names, but their heads have turned/dropped. I thought it was interesting that people mentioned how great it was that Shamal George was so passionate about Leahy’s last minute winner the other week, but if you looked more widely you’d notice Butcher barely got into a clap. Tafa has never been particularly emotionally engaged. Jmac looks finished. Wheeler has been a fantastic servant but always suited Ainsworth’s style. I could go on but it’s all obvious stuff. I believe we should make about five or six signings in January to cover for the above, as well as consider the possibility of losing a loanee or two.
I said a few weeks ago that teams had sussed us out from goal kicks - I was right. Every team is now employing this approach out of possession - leaving our right back as the ‘unmarked’ option, but then closing them down fairly quickly and trusting that they are incapable of playing out. This has really reduced our threat and has forced us into lofted backspinning passes to Kone who struggles to make the ball stick when marked by an aerially-dominant defender.
Our starting XI is becoming very predictable again. I mentioned this being a big issue last season. The cracks are enlarging on a weekly basis, so Bloomfield and team should have already looked at plan B and C in case we need a formation/approach change as we approach Xmas and NY - I hope they’ve already done this as training pitch time is limited over the Xmas period.
Generally, the pack needs reshuffling because the last five games have been quite poor:
1) Leahy digs us out last minute to Mansfield with a cross. Very fortunate.
2) A very fortunate win against Wealdstone. We deserved to have gone behind to them on at least one occasion.
3) Very poor first half against Exeter, before recovering to a draw.
4) A poor first half against Reading, before drawing at home.
5) Last night’s poor display.
That’s a trend. Not a particularly bad run of games by any regular means, but when you compare it to blowing Stockport away in 20 mins and smashing Orient and P’boro then it does feel ‘major’.
I’m sure the coaching staff will work it out. Looking forward to a reshuffle.
JMac has been doing his coaching badges and is apparently keen to take that route. I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed and saw out his contract, even if he doesn't play another game for us.
In full agreement with large parts of @frequentstander's post. We've been lucky to still pull off a few results recently (W,D,D vs Mansfield, Exeter and Reading) in 3 games where we didn't play particularly well for large parts. That trend of results won't continue if our trend of not-so-great performances does. It may well be that teams are starting to suss us out, or treat us with more respect and therefore play more defensively, but it's now on the team and management to work out a way of improving our performances in the face of that. That's how teams win championships.
It is easy to over react. I am biting my tongue a bit after last night. But performances like that are not good enough as they set trends. We saw games last season against Sutton and Morecambe that in isolation were not important but sucked the life out of everyone and contributed to what could have been a career defining run for MB.
My biggest concern is Butcher. A great talent that looks like he doesn't want to play for us. I am sure he is down about 2 loanees coming in a taking his place when he is a senior pro but he has to show more than he did last night. Everything was wrong.
As for the others it was largely a bad day. I wasn't a fan of Hanlan (as a player) before his ACL and I remain the same. He has no end product in terms of shot or cross. His goal involvement figures demonstrate he is not an effective threat at this level. He has pace, he has fair control, he consistently prefers to check back and hold up attacks rather than use his key assets. He is too old to develop into anything more than the player he is now. I would get rid, I would have got rid last season too.
If the injured players are not close and with the two out of the three key loanees at risk of returning to their home clubs it could be a surprisingly busy January. Last night showed we have a big squad, maybe not quite as deep in quality as we thought.
On Butcher, MB won’t like that one bit. Bloomfield as a player fought tooth and nail to keep his spot in our team when younger and more talented players joined the club. Bloomfield kept his place through grit, determination and putting in the extra hours to be fitter than them. Ainsworth testified to this many times. If Blooms was like that as a player then he will expect his ‘senior pro’ to conduct himself accordingly. He obviously isn’t. That’s why he’s not getting minutes. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if Butcher goes in January.
I don't really understand why Butcher has dropped off so rapidly. It must be a mental thing where, as has been mentioned, he's disheartened by loanees coming in and playing ahead of him. It's a similar situation he found himself in at Plymouth.
Of all the names on this thread that we need to get rid of - if Wheeler wants to stay, I'd keep him. Seems to be a good leader, puts the graft in and is quite exceptional in the air, which can come in handy.
Hanlan not being up to it is not a surprise. I did emphasise fairly regularly through all the excited posts pining for his return, that it was highly unlikely a striker whose best return for us has been 6 in 36, was going to set the world alight after a year long injury.
Some points of sense, but also a ridiculously bleak view!
Nothing is particularly bad and we certainly weren't in any way "lucky" to get past Wealdstone. They might have scored first, but I don't think we'd have struggled to get back in it.
The Reading game was a bit of a freak wind affected one too, for a bit of missing balance.
Yesterday was just a total rotation, even weaker than usual with a youth loanee left back in there too, so not a lot to worry about.
We do need to get back on the win wagon though.
On Hanlan, I'm not sure why we're trying to field him as an out and out striker. I'm not sure we've ever had any success with him in that role? Best form was left in a 3, with a few ok performances on the right of a 3, and maybe off a Vokes on occasion too. But he's not a front man that is any sort of game changer in this division, let alone top end. And obviously not after such a massive lay off too.
ps I'm not sure Butcher is a "great talent" either. That's a bit strong!
He was a good all rounder who looked particularly good when we were a bit hapless. Now we have a bit more specialism to our mid 3, he's simply not in their league. Although him v Leahy v Bakinson is a very open debate.
I was intentionally critical and bleak in approach. It doesn’t detract one bit from my overarching opinion that we have been outstanding this season, but we can’t rest on our laurels because “it’s only December”. We should be recalibrating our expectations now. We have a billionaire owner and many disgruntled players. Let’s use it to our advantage and reshuffle some of the pack in January.
Butcher, when he came in, did the invisible midfielder role. He broke up play and made a little pass that allowed others to do the business. He doesn't possess the same energy as Scowen or the same passing range as Humphreys but he plays a vital role in allowing others to play. And his introduction last season turned us around. Now he is slow, ponderous, clumsy with his passing and totally ineffective. And when he loses the ball it is with a shrug rather than with a desire to regain it. He just seems unhappy to be with us. It happens. He remains a very good player and one I would love to keep in the squad if he can regain the form of last season. In August I would have had him one of the first names on the team sheet. Now he is getting 5 minutes a game.
Some who have written off Wheeler I think are a bit off. His application and attitude is faultless. If Butcher showed the same we would be far better off.
With 400 fans we may as we play it behind closed doors. This tournament is an absolute waste of time in its current format until you reach the semi finals.
Not sure who needs to hear this, but it's just the tinpot trophy. Don't worry about it
Imagine how bleak it's going to get on here when we actually go through a bad run. It's nearly Christmas, we haven't lost in the league since August, and we're top of the league
Surely, It is a well known tradition for every football fan to be able to point out that players heads have dropped, some people don't want to be here, we've ridden our luck, we've been found out, this is a real test for the management, hope they have a Plan B, the January window is vital this year, at least once before Christmas every season, wherever we are in the table.
Comments
we were always due a poor game at some point & lets hope it was this one...would rather we played like pish in the tinpot than in the league.
To be fair to the players brought in they probably had one training session as a team so to bemoan the strenght in depth is a little harsh.
Bishop is coming back from injury & was stuck behind a makeshift defence that will have hardly if ever played together, having said that he filled me with a lot less confidence than either Rav or George, so am unsure why we would or if we will hold onto him come 1/1/25.
Skura is a solid prospect who has performed well when in between 2 experienced defenders who can talk him through the game. Woodhouse has played consistently well for The Daggers & whilst probably isnt yet ready for L1 is definitely not far off. neither were helped by having two very rusty & frankly lethargic players (McCarthy & Taf) alongside them today.
As for the others Bakinson is solid & is probably 4th choice CM after Scowen, Morley & Humphries: Leahy is a bench player at best, Butcher is a huge concern as he looked so good last season & yet his form appears to have nose dived off a cliff - the coaches need to figure out how to get him reinvigorated. Wheels is a legend and model pro but is very rusty & a bit off the pace, I cannot see out of our first choice 18 who you would leave out to accomodate him.
The forwards are all pretty decent, MB needs to just figure out the combinations that do & dont work especially given his propensity to often rotate them heavily.
I think on today's evidence unless we have an illness or injury crisis of immense proportions I struggle to see either McCarthy or Taf playing in the quarters again.
Not a great spectacle tonight. Lost the battle in the centre of park first half which set the tone for most of the evening.
Actually think there was only one good individual performance tonight and that was from Taff - watched him closely tonight and he was good and should be our back up centre half. Don’t think too many of the other current fringe players did themselves any favours but saying that neither did the few that normally start.
Hopefully get back on track this weekend!
A few fans on their forum said they were going to put a tenner on a win. So well done them.
Just goes to show that there is no real competition for places...
I probably agree with the others that have said Wheeler Jmac and Taff's are probably off...
3 players that have done us a solid over the years
3 players that we were over the moon to bring on board
3 players that have scored invaluable goals for us
3 players we have voted MOTM many many times...
Just helps highlight how far we have come ✨️
Agree that JMac is likely to leave in January, as he's clearly not in Bloomfield's plans
Not so sure about Wheeler and Taf. Wheels is still a very useful player and likely to get a fair bit of game time this season, covering for injuries. Unless we bring in another CB I'd be surprised to see Taf leave. He'd be back in the starting XI if either Low, or Taylor get injured/suspended. That may change of course if we do bring someone else in.
I agree with @Wanderer82 Taf looked much more like his old self tonight but still a bit rusty. Skura really didn’t have a good night and probably needs another loan spell at a league 2 club. Woodhouse showed some good signs but got beaten by the winger for the first goal. Jmac unfortunately looked well out of form, sad.
Gmac, Leahy, Udoh and Bakinson didn’t really look interested. Not convinced by Bishop TBH. Clark showed some good touches.
On to Saturday
It’s nearly 9 years since JMac scored that winner against the Pox. He’s been a good servant and provided a few highlights in his numerous spells in the Quarters. If tonight was to be his last hurrah then so be it but I hope he finds a decent new home.
I really think it doesn't help (from a footballing point of view) to have the terrace closed for a match like this. There was very little atmosphere generated by the 400 home fans. I can understand the club wanting to minimise costs but how many terrace regulars were absent because it was shut? I think the club needs to reconsider this.
The thing I don't understand about JMac is the age at which he began to diminish. He just turned 29 but is light years off the player who played for three different clubs in the Champo (I think?) and was excellent for us in the back end of that star crossed season up there.
I hope he can play regularly somewhere for his sake, and I also hope he makes a good coach, as he is clearly heading in that direction with the licenses he has gained and intends to gain.
Maybe it's just "We're playing a shit team in a shit cup and they are down to ten men. Hahahaha they are so shit oh they won"
It's happened to better teams than us.
I thought Taff had a decent game and is definitely useful as Centre back cover…we will have injuries and we need players who are decent and know the system. Wheeler is useful cover too and he’s a great header of the ball…best we have alongside Vokes.
Agree that J Mac is probably surplus to requirements at present and maybe Hanlan too.
Just reiterating the key bits:
JMac has been doing his coaching badges and is apparently keen to take that route. I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed and saw out his contract, even if he doesn't play another game for us.
In full agreement with large parts of @frequentstander's post. We've been lucky to still pull off a few results recently (W,D,D vs Mansfield, Exeter and Reading) in 3 games where we didn't play particularly well for large parts. That trend of results won't continue if our trend of not-so-great performances does. It may well be that teams are starting to suss us out, or treat us with more respect and therefore play more defensively, but it's now on the team and management to work out a way of improving our performances in the face of that. That's how teams win championships.
It is easy to over react. I am biting my tongue a bit after last night. But performances like that are not good enough as they set trends. We saw games last season against Sutton and Morecambe that in isolation were not important but sucked the life out of everyone and contributed to what could have been a career defining run for MB.
My biggest concern is Butcher. A great talent that looks like he doesn't want to play for us. I am sure he is down about 2 loanees coming in a taking his place when he is a senior pro but he has to show more than he did last night. Everything was wrong.
As for the others it was largely a bad day. I wasn't a fan of Hanlan (as a player) before his ACL and I remain the same. He has no end product in terms of shot or cross. His goal involvement figures demonstrate he is not an effective threat at this level. He has pace, he has fair control, he consistently prefers to check back and hold up attacks rather than use his key assets. He is too old to develop into anything more than the player he is now. I would get rid, I would have got rid last season too.
If the injured players are not close and with the two out of the three key loanees at risk of returning to their home clubs it could be a surprisingly busy January. Last night showed we have a big squad, maybe not quite as deep in quality as we thought.
On Butcher, MB won’t like that one bit. Bloomfield as a player fought tooth and nail to keep his spot in our team when younger and more talented players joined the club. Bloomfield kept his place through grit, determination and putting in the extra hours to be fitter than them. Ainsworth testified to this many times. If Blooms was like that as a player then he will expect his ‘senior pro’ to conduct himself accordingly. He obviously isn’t. That’s why he’s not getting minutes. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if Butcher goes in January.
Blooms has more than proved his adaptability by now. I'm not worried.
What a brutal assessment of a team currently top of the table!
More please.
I don't really understand why Butcher has dropped off so rapidly. It must be a mental thing where, as has been mentioned, he's disheartened by loanees coming in and playing ahead of him. It's a similar situation he found himself in at Plymouth.
Of all the names on this thread that we need to get rid of - if Wheeler wants to stay, I'd keep him. Seems to be a good leader, puts the graft in and is quite exceptional in the air, which can come in handy.
Hanlan not being up to it is not a surprise. I did emphasise fairly regularly through all the excited posts pining for his return, that it was highly unlikely a striker whose best return for us has been 6 in 36, was going to set the world alight after a year long injury.
Some points of sense, but also a ridiculously bleak view!
Nothing is particularly bad and we certainly weren't in any way "lucky" to get past Wealdstone. They might have scored first, but I don't think we'd have struggled to get back in it.
The Reading game was a bit of a freak wind affected one too, for a bit of missing balance.
Yesterday was just a total rotation, even weaker than usual with a youth loanee left back in there too, so not a lot to worry about.
We do need to get back on the win wagon though.
On Hanlan, I'm not sure why we're trying to field him as an out and out striker. I'm not sure we've ever had any success with him in that role? Best form was left in a 3, with a few ok performances on the right of a 3, and maybe off a Vokes on occasion too. But he's not a front man that is any sort of game changer in this division, let alone top end. And obviously not after such a massive lay off too.
ps I'm not sure Butcher is a "great talent" either. That's a bit strong!
He was a good all rounder who looked particularly good when we were a bit hapless. Now we have a bit more specialism to our mid 3, he's simply not in their league. Although him v Leahy v Bakinson is a very open debate.
It would be interesting to know the length of contracts remaining for - McCarthy, Butcher, Taf, Hanlan, Vokes and Hartridge ?
I was intentionally critical and bleak in approach. It doesn’t detract one bit from my overarching opinion that we have been outstanding this season, but we can’t rest on our laurels because “it’s only December”. We should be recalibrating our expectations now. We have a billionaire owner and many disgruntled players. Let’s use it to our advantage and reshuffle some of the pack in January.
Butcher, when he came in, did the invisible midfielder role. He broke up play and made a little pass that allowed others to do the business. He doesn't possess the same energy as Scowen or the same passing range as Humphreys but he plays a vital role in allowing others to play. And his introduction last season turned us around. Now he is slow, ponderous, clumsy with his passing and totally ineffective. And when he loses the ball it is with a shrug rather than with a desire to regain it. He just seems unhappy to be with us. It happens. He remains a very good player and one I would love to keep in the squad if he can regain the form of last season. In August I would have had him one of the first names on the team sheet. Now he is getting 5 minutes a game.
Some who have written off Wheeler I think are a bit off. His application and attitude is faultless. If Butcher showed the same we would be far better off.
With 400 fans we may as we play it behind closed doors. This tournament is an absolute waste of time in its current format until you reach the semi finals.
Not sure who needs to hear this, but it's just the tinpot trophy. Don't worry about it
Imagine how bleak it's going to get on here when we actually go through a bad run. It's nearly Christmas, we haven't lost in the league since August, and we're top of the league
I don't remember Butcher being so immobile last season. At times last night, he looked like he was running through treacle.
No need to worry - that was our last-ever game in the competition.
Surely, It is a well known tradition for every football fan to be able to point out that players heads have dropped, some people don't want to be here, we've ridden our luck, we've been found out, this is a real test for the management, hope they have a Plan B, the January window is vital this year, at least once before Christmas every season, wherever we are in the table.