The present contract (as I understand it) terminates after the 2026 World Cup Final. Or are you suggesting that he might be indulged with an extension even if he doesn’t steer us to the promised land in 2026 ?
Yes, subjective, I know, and I do think Germany was the best win of the Southgate era, but I think both were bigger names than actual versions of themselves:
Germany (2020): Were 5 or so minutes from going out at the group stage before a late equalizer against Hungary, and were in a midst of a bit of a trough.
Netherlands (2024): Came 3rd in their group, only win with a fairly late goal, were in the weak side of the draw like England, and still were rather fortunate to beat Turkey.
To my mind a contender is one of the teams who you really expect to be in the mix to win it. I understand disagreement given the names (and given Holland made the semis in a mirror image of England's jammy draws) but I think both were poor versions of themselves.
Not sure what it says about me or my perception of Dutch football as being (or at least having at one time been) both “total” and highly entertaining but I felt compelled to look into the meaning and possible relevance of a phrase that I’d not previously encountered.
Not technically a knockout, but it was a good win. We have beaten other contenders in group stages too (Argentina 2002 comes to mind). We just don't seem to do it when it is "win or go home".
Surely you would agree that if a side reached a semi final then by definition they are contenders?
We've won two of those very recently. I sense you're not too bothered whether the international side do well or not, fair enough, but you must be able to see that they have been on an upward trajectory for a number of years now. I think we have an excellent chance of winning trophies in the next 6-8 years
I suppose it's how you look at it. In the Netherlands route, either them, Romania or Turkey (based on when they played Holland) HAD to make the semis. So in a sense that they were in the final four, yes they were "officially" a contender, but if you just took the best teams from the tournament, they were all in the other half of the draw. I don't think anyone in our half would have likely beaten Spain, Germany, France or Portugal. I actually liked Austria the best in our half, but they couldn't get by Turkey.
As far as our trajectory, I do think Southgate did some really good things, however much I didn't like the cautious style (and feel it cost us at least one tournament win) - he took England from an absolute laughing stock post-Iceland and post-Allardyce and brought dignity and unity to the England set up, which is no mean feat. Euro 2020 was a good tournament until the final, and he can only beat what is in front of him, however kind the draws were - irrespective of the routes, there is now a sense of expectancy that we can play in finals. There are aspects of his time which I think we are going to get away from to our detriment (I don't think Tuchel will be able to maintain the kind of environment Gareth did).
I still think England have some kind of fundamental mental block which is going to cost us, but I suppose we can pick over the bones of that the summer after next if that turns out to be true. Either way, even if we look amazing in the build up, I am already giving England a pass for not winning WC 26 because I think it will simply be too hot.
Southgate did a fantastic job making us contenders in competition even if some might say he was too cautious. If Tuchel can build on that we should be in the running for a trophy before long.
I'd be interested to hear what people think about Wrexham possibly going in the Welsh league cup so that they can get into Europe. Evidently other teams are unhappy, as it blocks their own opportunity, and I am with them - surely if you are not playing in the Welsh league, you should not be allowed in the Welsh cup?
Comments
Tuchel's contract runs from Jan 1st 2025 until the end of England's involvement in the 2026 World Cup.
Hopefully 19th July 2026, with a win.
If he wins the world cup its the pinaccle
The present contract (as I understand it) terminates after the 2026 World Cup Final. Or are you suggesting that he might be indulged with an extension even if he doesn’t steer us to the promised land in 2026 ?
Are you suggesting Holland weren't 'serious contenders' in Germany?!
Germany in Euro 2020?
You have some extraordinarily high standards sir!
Yes, subjective, I know, and I do think Germany was the best win of the Southgate era, but I think both were bigger names than actual versions of themselves:
Germany (2020): Were 5 or so minutes from going out at the group stage before a late equalizer against Hungary, and were in a midst of a bit of a trough.
Netherlands (2024): Came 3rd in their group, only win with a fairly late goal, were in the weak side of the draw like England, and still were rather fortunate to beat Turkey.
To my mind a contender is one of the teams who you really expect to be in the mix to win it. I understand disagreement given the names (and given Holland made the semis in a mirror image of England's jammy draws) but I think both were poor versions of themselves.
Wow.
Absolutely extraordinary stuff
Bonkers
Famously England didn't lose to anyone by any method in 82.
I mean, have a look at that France side we beat. One of the greatest international sides of all time
The Netherlands are never serious contenders when it comes to football.
They are however world champions at disappearing up their own arses.
Paul Tisdale appointed Head of Football Operations at Celtic.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cy5yzk3wyp4o
Oh, how we've missed this.
Not sure what it says about me or my perception of Dutch football as being (or at least having at one time been) both “total” and highly entertaining but I felt compelled to look into the meaning and possible relevance of a phrase that I’d not previously encountered.
What a card!
@glasshalfempty ?
Everybody knows that the Dutch invented Total Arseball.
I was rather hoping for another Anusol joke from you, @mooneyman.
Obviously not!
I thought it was Arsėne Wenger!
You jolly well are (and no mistake).
I’m out.
I’ve been called something beginning with ‘c’ before.
Not technically a knockout, but it was a good win. We have beaten other contenders in group stages too (Argentina 2002 comes to mind). We just don't seem to do it when it is "win or go home".
Hopefully not...(spoilered for offensive language)
Colchester fan
Now that would be below the belt.
Surely you would agree that if a side reached a semi final then by definition they are contenders?
We've won two of those very recently. I sense you're not too bothered whether the international side do well or not, fair enough, but you must be able to see that they have been on an upward trajectory for a number of years now. I think we have an excellent chance of winning trophies in the next 6-8 years
Reminds me of a bar I accidentally ended up in last time I was in Amsterdam.
I suppose it's how you look at it. In the Netherlands route, either them, Romania or Turkey (based on when they played Holland) HAD to make the semis. So in a sense that they were in the final four, yes they were "officially" a contender, but if you just took the best teams from the tournament, they were all in the other half of the draw. I don't think anyone in our half would have likely beaten Spain, Germany, France or Portugal. I actually liked Austria the best in our half, but they couldn't get by Turkey.
As far as our trajectory, I do think Southgate did some really good things, however much I didn't like the cautious style (and feel it cost us at least one tournament win) - he took England from an absolute laughing stock post-Iceland and post-Allardyce and brought dignity and unity to the England set up, which is no mean feat. Euro 2020 was a good tournament until the final, and he can only beat what is in front of him, however kind the draws were - irrespective of the routes, there is now a sense of expectancy that we can play in finals. There are aspects of his time which I think we are going to get away from to our detriment (I don't think Tuchel will be able to maintain the kind of environment Gareth did).
I still think England have some kind of fundamental mental block which is going to cost us, but I suppose we can pick over the bones of that the summer after next if that turns out to be true. Either way, even if we look amazing in the build up, I am already giving England a pass for not winning WC 26 because I think it will simply be too hot.
Southgate did a fantastic job making us contenders in competition even if some might say he was too cautious. If Tuchel can build on that we should be in the running for a trophy before long.
I'd be interested to hear what people think about Wrexham possibly going in the Welsh league cup so that they can get into Europe. Evidently other teams are unhappy, as it blocks their own opportunity, and I am with them - surely if you are not playing in the Welsh league, you should not be allowed in the Welsh cup?