Good club record and experience of playing and winning elite matches. No English candidate remotely close to that experience. If Pep and Klopp not available or too expensive, not a bad choice.
Perhaps it’s a bigger indictment that the heir apparent didn’t want the job. Even after the Greece debacle I would have preferred Carsley. Having a U21 manager to senior manager progression seems quite sensible.
International football isn’t supposed to be club football plus, it’s supposed to represent the football culture and structure of the country. It’s a shame ours doesn’t.
It does feel a little like we need our hand held, which is embarrassing.
However, it does seem like there are many more young(ish), English managers in the bottom three divisions with fairly astute tactical brains than there used to be, and some are steadily climbing their way up or burnishing their reputations (Parker, Carrick, Buckingham, Skubala, Blooms, Williams) though with the caveat that some have taken a recent step up only to look a little out of their depth (Martin, Manning - I would not include Mousinho here as it seems the blame is more on lack of money spent recruiting suitable players).
Who knows how many can rise to the very top level, though.
The shame of it is that Southgate was in the job for 8 years, and the FA had no idea of the next step.
It was fairly obvious Euro 2024 would be his last tournament, and there was no succession plan in place.
The last 2 major tournament winners, Argentina and Spain, have promoted their head coaches through the ranks - you can't argue the FA's plan was to hire the coach sacked by Bayern 4 months ago?
If the plan was to hire Carsley, and he's decided he doesn't fancy it, then this is even more of a knee-jerk reaction.
The FA plan appears to have been to look at what managers with proven experience of managing and winning elite level games may be available when needed rather than going for a guy who has never managed at that level and has to learn on the job.
Whether Tuchel succeeds or not we will have to wait and see but does feel we have a better chance of winning the next World Cup under him than under a relative novice like Potter or Carsley.
Seems like Carsley has had enough of the press trying their best to ruin whatever happens and is better if out of it. All the anthem stuff was rubbish and then reading too much into every word said since and urging everyone to make a decision asap rather than finish off whatever the very loose plan was.
Tuchel is one of the bigger names available if you are desperate to appoint someone right now but he's fallen out with people all over the place and not seen much recent success. Hanging on until the summer might have brought better options and available candidates.
Not much recent success? He won the German League in 2023, the World Club championship in 2022 and the Champions League in 2021 with more cup finals and wins along the way. Blimey what do you expect?
They've given him an 18 month contract. Which, if it's strictly 18 months, wouldn't get him to the world cup. Seems odd to go for a big name, on effectively a trail run, and pay him almost £4m.
Probably a bit more more with the players at his disposal, particularly domestically at Bayern and in Europe with PSG: basket cases that they are, (and yes not that many of his competitors for the role would out do that), clearly the employers that sacked him did expect more and/ or found him difficult to work with.
Anyway nice to see the press having pushed for this and constantly linked him are happy, Dark day for English football apparently.
If Guardiola and Klopp not available, can't immediately think of anyone with a better record who might want the job. Seems a decent appointment to me. Lets enjoy the ride.
I think success at club management is not necessarily the best qualification to manage an international side. Coaching ability is by far the most important skill and being able to identify the cream of English players. At club level it is predominantly about building a squad having regard to the wage budget available to you. Managers of City, Bayern, PSG etc can within reason buy success although ten Hag disproved this theory.
If Pep arrived at Adams Park tomorrow would he achieve more that Blooms with the same players/budget?
Is Tuchel the best coach we could appoint is debatable. I think his most important decision will be the team of coaches he appoints and hopefully they will be mainly English.
Well what we know is that its Tuchel (obviously), Anthony Barry (English) as the Deputy, another is Hilario (Chelsea's Goalkeeper Coach, Portuguese) who will be coming in as Part time GK Coach, He Started in Goal in the 2006 Carling Cup Semi Final 1st Leg at Adams Park
I have no problem with Tuchel getting the job. (My interest in International football has waned any road) The problem is the FA having no cajones. Taking a risk and giving the opportunity to Potter or Howe would have been better in my opinion.
Getting strong "Eric has nothing to say so has resorted to personal abuse again" energy today.
I am interested to know why @Wendoverman, a poster with a record of intelligent postings, would prefer two managers who have had the odd decent season with midranking Premier League sides but little experience of elite level football over a guy who has reached (I believe) two Champions League finals. It would seem an odd choice to seemingly prioritise passport over experience. I would be interested to know his logic.
I think that's why other FAs have gone for setting a style through the age groups and promoting from within so players move up with the coach and that worked to a level with Southgate and took the FA to Carsley but does need people to get off their backs for a bit and get past their lack of star quality. It's a massive boost to the coaching and certification system too to appoint someone who has graduated rather than an expensive import.
The problem may be the qualifiers tend to be so easy that almost anyone could be England manager for most of the 2 year cycle but in the tournaments we need a great motivator to get past age old fears and someone who is ready and able to quickly react to what is happening.
Trying to improve on Southgate is a tricky conundrum as he's been more successful than any of his predecessors for decades, but he was probably still too predictable and unresponsive in the key moments and lacked the aura when anyone ever thought winning something really could happen.
Comments
Good club record and experience of playing and winning elite matches. No English candidate remotely close to that experience. If Pep and Klopp not available or too expensive, not a bad choice.
It’s an indictment of English football that there isn’t an obvious English candidate.
Matt Bloomfield!
I think it should be an English coach personally
Perhaps it’s a bigger indictment that the heir apparent didn’t want the job. Even after the Greece debacle I would have preferred Carsley. Having a U21 manager to senior manager progression seems quite sensible.
International football isn’t supposed to be club football plus, it’s supposed to represent the football culture and structure of the country. It’s a shame ours doesn’t.
It does feel a little like we need our hand held, which is embarrassing.
However, it does seem like there are many more young(ish), English managers in the bottom three divisions with fairly astute tactical brains than there used to be, and some are steadily climbing their way up or burnishing their reputations (Parker, Carrick, Buckingham, Skubala, Blooms, Williams) though with the caveat that some have taken a recent step up only to look a little out of their depth (Martin, Manning - I would not include Mousinho here as it seems the blame is more on lack of money spent recruiting suitable players).
Who knows how many can rise to the very top level, though.
What’s Peter Taylor up to these days?
Imagine throwing Luke Oliver on to replace Kane up top, instead of Watkins or Toney.
The shame of it is that Southgate was in the job for 8 years, and the FA had no idea of the next step.
It was fairly obvious Euro 2024 would be his last tournament, and there was no succession plan in place.
The last 2 major tournament winners, Argentina and Spain, have promoted their head coaches through the ranks - you can't argue the FA's plan was to hire the coach sacked by Bayern 4 months ago?
If the plan was to hire Carsley, and he's decided he doesn't fancy it, then this is even more of a knee-jerk reaction.
The FA plan appears to have been to look at what managers with proven experience of managing and winning elite level games may be available when needed rather than going for a guy who has never managed at that level and has to learn on the job.
Whether Tuchel succeeds or not we will have to wait and see but does feel we have a better chance of winning the next World Cup under him than under a relative novice like Potter or Carsley.
It could be that Carsley changed his mind and then it was down to availability? I do see though that the FA couldn't run a bath. 🙄
Seems like Carsley has had enough of the press trying their best to ruin whatever happens and is better if out of it. All the anthem stuff was rubbish and then reading too much into every word said since and urging everyone to make a decision asap rather than finish off whatever the very loose plan was.
Tuchel is one of the bigger names available if you are desperate to appoint someone right now but he's fallen out with people all over the place and not seen much recent success. Hanging on until the summer might have brought better options and available candidates.
Not much recent success? He won the German League in 2023, the World Club championship in 2022 and the Champions League in 2021 with more cup finals and wins along the way. Blimey what do you expect?
They've given him an 18 month contract. Which, if it's strictly 18 months, wouldn't get him to the world cup. Seems odd to go for a big name, on effectively a trail run, and pay him almost £4m.
Probably a bit more more with the players at his disposal, particularly domestically at Bayern and in Europe with PSG: basket cases that they are, (and yes not that many of his competitors for the role would out do that), clearly the employers that sacked him did expect more and/ or found him difficult to work with.
Anyway nice to see the press having pushed for this and constantly linked him are happy, Dark day for English football apparently.
If Guardiola and Klopp not available, can't immediately think of anyone with a better record who might want the job. Seems a decent appointment to me. Lets enjoy the ride.
I think success at club management is not necessarily the best qualification to manage an international side. Coaching ability is by far the most important skill and being able to identify the cream of English players. At club level it is predominantly about building a squad having regard to the wage budget available to you. Managers of City, Bayern, PSG etc can within reason buy success although ten Hag disproved this theory.
If Pep arrived at Adams Park tomorrow would he achieve more that Blooms with the same players/budget?
Is Tuchel the best coach we could appoint is debatable. I think his most important decision will be the team of coaches he appoints and hopefully they will be mainly English.
Well what we know is that its Tuchel (obviously), Anthony Barry (English) as the Deputy, another is Hilario (Chelsea's Goalkeeper Coach, Portuguese) who will be coming in as Part time GK Coach, He Started in Goal in the 2006 Carling Cup Semi Final 1st Leg at Adams Park
I have no problem with Tuchel getting the job. (My interest in International football has waned any road) The problem is the FA having no cajones. Taking a risk and giving the opportunity to Potter or Howe would have been better in my opinion.
Why?
Getting strong "Dev has a ready made argument he's itching to unleash but no one's rising to his bait" energy today
Getting strong "Eric has nothing to say so has resorted to personal abuse again" energy today.
I am interested to know why @Wendoverman, a poster with a record of intelligent postings, would prefer two managers who have had the odd decent season with midranking Premier League sides but little experience of elite level football over a guy who has reached (I believe) two Champions League finals. It would seem an odd choice to seemingly prioritise passport over experience. I would be interested to know his logic.
Abuse!! "LOL"
The rest of that post did nothing to assuage me of my view
Oh Dev, there's such an obvious answer.
because 'Taking a risk and giving the opportunity to Potter or Howe would have been better in my opinion.'
That is all.
I think that's why other FAs have gone for setting a style through the age groups and promoting from within so players move up with the coach and that worked to a level with Southgate and took the FA to Carsley but does need people to get off their backs for a bit and get past their lack of star quality. It's a massive boost to the coaching and certification system too to appoint someone who has graduated rather than an expensive import.
The problem may be the qualifiers tend to be so easy that almost anyone could be England manager for most of the 2 year cycle but in the tournaments we need a great motivator to get past age old fears and someone who is ready and able to quickly react to what is happening.
Trying to improve on Southgate is a tricky conundrum as he's been more successful than any of his predecessors for decades, but he was probably still too predictable and unresponsive in the key moments and lacked the aura when anyone ever thought winning something really could happen.
The big question is 'Can Tuchel beat Nagel on the East Shore?'
The England job should always go to an ENGLISH man.
(My support of Scotland has no bearing on this)
Will he even get there? Will need a good start and a contract extension.