I’m sure a number of the players who are out of contract have options. So it may look like the squad is paper thin the reality is that we can easily pack out the spine of the squad before everyone goes away for a holiday. Grimmer, Wheeler, Vokes, Taff and GMac are all at the stage of their lives and careers where rolling the dice is not that appealing. And if they are happy here (as they appear to be) I’m sure extensions will happily be inked. Forino is a different matter. He’s free. He’s championship quality. There will be a queue of teams rightly wanting him.
I still find it incredible if we have allowed ourselves to be in a position where Forino can leave for free. Our whole basis of sustainability since the Couhigs have been in place , is to develop young players and then sell. We seem pretty cloak and dagger in announcing lengths of contracts , so hopefully we have something in place even if it’s a triggering of a one year extension. At least we get some money if he goes.
Surely, if our stated ambition is to get promoted, we need to have a nucleus of Championship-quality players in the squad.
We should be moving heaven and earth to keep Chris Forino, who along with Josh Scowen, Matt Butcher and Nigel Lonwijk (if we can re-sign him) fit that criteria.
Then it's question of making the right signings of quality players / loanees in the positions where we need cover.
As you say, depends on the terms and expectation of game time. I had originally thought Vokes would certainly be done - but actually yesterday he was exactly what we needed from 70 mins on.
Charlton had pinned us back into our 1/3 of the pitch. There back line was pushing deeper into our half and we had no out.
As soon as Vokes came on, that changed. He’s a threat to there back line in that he can push them back or win headers out of defence. Josh Scowen did a good job in helping with that, but any other player with pace supporting Vokes maybe key to helping relieve pressure on our defence when they are under the cosh and look for counter attacks.
He certainly offers something different to our other forwards and is well respected by Blooms, If his contract was up and it freed up enough money to get someone impressive who was actually available I'd probably be up for making a change but it's going to be a long summer if people think every decision is going to go the way they look at it now on paper.
Sam Vokes is still a quality target man who occupies defenders and provides the perfect out ball when we are under pressure. His game has never been pressing opposition defenders and never will be and that has nothing to do with his fitness levels so I hope the earlier reference to his weight was said in jest. Our fitness coach is a hard taskmaster and woe betide anyone who doesn’t reach the standards he sets.
It’s a great point about Vokes coming on for the final 20 minutes to see a game out. I lost count of the games this season that he started then came off with 15 or 20 to go resulting in us continually losing possession and ending up defending to deep. His defending from corners and set pieces shouldn’t be underestimated either.
I believe Sam has been doing his coaching badges. Mentoring and helping to develop Kone alone is worth another year
I think that coincides with Vokes starting games and us not having a replacement on the bench when he tired - and a team that was starting to get on top of us suddenly didn’t need to worry about him anymore and could push more ment forward - directly resulting in us conceding so late so many times. Had yesterdays game been pre jan window - we would have drawn or even lost it I think.
This was perhaps the biggest reason I was calling for Uche to be signed so we had a like for like replacement and still had a big strong man up top that could force defences back.
That said, with the emergence of Kone - who I though did excellently with both his head and ball to feet yesterday - can be the starter with Vokes seeing games out.
Getting a full preaseaon into Kone is one of the exciting things for me over the off season.
He is not the quickest or the most mobile but that doesn’t mean he’s overweight. Professional sportsmen these days have to adhere to very strict regimes regarding diet and specific fitness levels. Luke Leahy makes jokes about lots of his team mates, it’s just dressing room banter.
In fairness, I never said he was overweight. To be clear: I still think he can be a big asset for us, but he's definitely been in better condition as far as I can see - and getting back there would only benefit the team. Anyway, that's what pre-season is for!
You said he needed to go on a diet. We can play Symantics all day, but thats a pretty strong hint that he needs to loose weight. You either said he was overweight, or you need to ensure better selection of words to make sure there's less ambiguity.
Love to see you tell your partner she/he/they needs to go on a diet and also win the argument "no, I don't think you're over weight".
FWIW, I don't think Vokes is Overweight. Or unfit. He might not be as mobile as he was even at the start of last season but that doesn't mean he needs to lose weight. Losing weight could well result in him being unable to do the thing he (and Bayo) were good at - holding of 2 defenders at once. Maybe he needs to adapt his game a bit to offset his reducing mobility. Maybe we as a team need to adapt our tactics when he is on the pitch.
Yeah - I thought Scowen did a decent enough job at it, and this is no dig at him, but I just don't think what he was doing is one of his strengths. I noticed for much of the Wembley game he was often the player as the next most advanced player - other than Kone - through the middle. He does the job to a point, but I don't think he's the kind of "run from the halfway line with the ball, cut inside a defender and place the ball in the fair corner" player you'd need running off of vokes that say a Gmac/Anis is/was. Maybe Luballa is. Perhaps Sadlier can be. But I'm not yet convinced we have a couple of those in the squad to help if Gmac is also tiring.
I wouldn’t say Vokes is overweight, more that his legs have gone. Which is no great surprise given he has been playing professional football at quite a level for the last 18 years. It would appear as if he’s contracted here next season, which may have been a bit of a mistake in my opinion.
Hayes’ Achilles was gone by the end. He was capable of some wonderful displays even with it due to painkilling injection (Spurs etc). But Vokes is very different as not suffering from any major injury.
Hahahaha that’s a hilarious take @flymofrank. Naive to think you know better than our highly trained, highly skilled staff, as well as Vokes’ 10+ year expertise of his own body as a professional footballer
It’s one of the most stupid things I’ve ever read on here. These players will have target weights set by the medical team in conjunction with the coaching staff, constantly re-optimising throughout the season. Vokes would not be playing if wasn’t within his target weight range.
Comments
I’m sure a number of the players who are out of contract have options. So it may look like the squad is paper thin the reality is that we can easily pack out the spine of the squad before everyone goes away for a holiday. Grimmer, Wheeler, Vokes, Taff and GMac are all at the stage of their lives and careers where rolling the dice is not that appealing. And if they are happy here (as they appear to be) I’m sure extensions will happily be inked. Forino is a different matter. He’s free. He’s championship quality. There will be a queue of teams rightly wanting him.
I still find it incredible if we have allowed ourselves to be in a position where Forino can leave for free. Our whole basis of sustainability since the Couhigs have been in place , is to develop young players and then sell. We seem pretty cloak and dagger in announcing lengths of contracts , so hopefully we have something in place even if it’s a triggering of a one year extension. At least we get some money if he goes.
Surely, if our stated ambition is to get promoted, we need to have a nucleus of Championship-quality players in the squad.
We should be moving heaven and earth to keep Chris Forino, who along with Josh Scowen, Matt Butcher and Nigel Lonwijk (if we can re-sign him) fit that criteria.
Then it's question of making the right signings of quality players / loanees in the positions where we need cover.
Well that sounds easy.
As you say, depends on the terms and expectation of game time. I had originally thought Vokes would certainly be done - but actually yesterday he was exactly what we needed from 70 mins on.
Charlton had pinned us back into our 1/3 of the pitch. There back line was pushing deeper into our half and we had no out.
As soon as Vokes came on, that changed. He’s a threat to there back line in that he can push them back or win headers out of defence. Josh Scowen did a good job in helping with that, but any other player with pace supporting Vokes maybe key to helping relieve pressure on our defence when they are under the cosh and look for counter attacks.
Get him on a diet and he could be useful to have around (or let him go the other way and become the new Beast).
He certainly offers something different to our other forwards and is well respected by Blooms, If his contract was up and it freed up enough money to get someone impressive who was actually available I'd probably be up for making a change but it's going to be a long summer if people think every decision is going to go the way they look at it now on paper.
Sam Vokes is still a quality target man who occupies defenders and provides the perfect out ball when we are under pressure. His game has never been pressing opposition defenders and never will be and that has nothing to do with his fitness levels so I hope the earlier reference to his weight was said in jest. Our fitness coach is a hard taskmaster and woe betide anyone who doesn’t reach the standards he sets.
Pretty unreasonable and unnecessary reference to his weight imo (and this is a professional sportsman we're talking about here!)
He's not even fat ffs !
Probably fitter than all of us on here (with the exception of marathon man)
It’s a great point about Vokes coming on for the final 20 minutes to see a game out. I lost count of the games this season that he started then came off with 15 or 20 to go resulting in us continually losing possession and ending up defending to deep. His defending from corners and set pieces shouldn’t be underestimated either.
I believe Sam has been doing his coaching badges. Mentoring and helping to develop Kone alone is worth another year
I think that coincides with Vokes starting games and us not having a replacement on the bench when he tired - and a team that was starting to get on top of us suddenly didn’t need to worry about him anymore and could push more ment forward - directly resulting in us conceding so late so many times. Had yesterdays game been pre jan window - we would have drawn or even lost it I think.
This was perhaps the biggest reason I was calling for Uche to be signed so we had a like for like replacement and still had a big strong man up top that could force defences back.
That said, with the emergence of Kone - who I though did excellently with both his head and ball to feet yesterday - can be the starter with Vokes seeing games out.
Getting a full preaseaon into Kone is one of the exciting things for me over the off season.
He signed a two year deal at end of 2023. He’s definitely here next season
He's definitely been in better shape! And we're not professional footballers...
Are you seriously suggesting that he is overweight?
I'm seriously suggesting he's not in ideal shape for a professional footballer. Luke Leahy even jokes about it on commentary!
But it happens, and he'll sort it out.
According to the web sites I’ve looked at , it says Vokes’s contract ends this season. Where are you getting your information?
He is not the quickest or the most mobile but that doesn’t mean he’s overweight. Professional sportsmen these days have to adhere to very strict regimes regarding diet and specific fitness levels. Luke Leahy makes jokes about lots of his team mates, it’s just dressing room banter.
In fairness, I never said he was overweight. To be clear: I still think he can be a big asset for us, but he's definitely been in better condition as far as I can see - and getting back there would only benefit the team. Anyway, that's what pre-season is for!
You said he needed to go on a diet. We can play Symantics all day, but thats a pretty strong hint that he needs to loose weight. You either said he was overweight, or you need to ensure better selection of words to make sure there's less ambiguity.
Love to see you tell your partner she/he/they needs to go on a diet and also win the argument "no, I don't think you're over weight".
FWIW, I don't think Vokes is Overweight. Or unfit. He might not be as mobile as he was even at the start of last season but that doesn't mean he needs to lose weight. Losing weight could well result in him being unable to do the thing he (and Bayo) were good at - holding of 2 defenders at once. Maybe he needs to adapt his game a bit to offset his reducing mobility. Maybe we as a team need to adapt our tactics when he is on the pitch.
But going on a diet isnt the fix
It's really not a difficult concept to grasp
That’s exactly as I saw it yesterday (although more eloquently put than I can ever manage).
Was slightly strange seeing Scowen the furthest forward for some of those flick ons though.
You're right. The concept is you thought you weren't saying he was overweight. People who read your words, did.
Yeah - I thought Scowen did a decent enough job at it, and this is no dig at him, but I just don't think what he was doing is one of his strengths. I noticed for much of the Wembley game he was often the player as the next most advanced player - other than Kone - through the middle. He does the job to a point, but I don't think he's the kind of "run from the halfway line with the ball, cut inside a defender and place the ball in the fair corner" player you'd need running off of vokes that say a Gmac/Anis is/was. Maybe Luballa is. Perhaps Sadlier can be. But I'm not yet convinced we have a couple of those in the squad to help if Gmac is also tiring.
I wouldn’t say Vokes is overweight, more that his legs have gone. Which is no great surprise given he has been playing professional football at quite a level for the last 18 years. It would appear as if he’s contracted here next season, which may have been a bit of a mistake in my opinion.
I hope it's not going to be a repeat of Hayes at the end. That was painful to watch and it happened so suddenly.
Hayes’ Achilles was gone by the end. He was capable of some wonderful displays even with it due to painkilling injection (Spurs etc). But Vokes is very different as not suffering from any major injury.
Hahahaha that’s a hilarious take @flymofrank. Naive to think you know better than our highly trained, highly skilled staff, as well as Vokes’ 10+ year expertise of his own body as a professional footballer
How about when he was even more visibly out of shape at the start of last season?
It’s one of the most stupid things I’ve ever read on here. These players will have target weights set by the medical team in conjunction with the coaching staff, constantly re-optimising throughout the season. Vokes would not be playing if wasn’t within his target weight range.