Back to the game, it was lovely to see so many of the team run to TJay to celebrate after his assist. He’s clearly well liked by the squad. Thought he was fantastic when he came on, both defensively and in attack.
In fairness to Raminpeace, I wasn't at the game yesterday but can probably identify which ballboy was "taking his time" getting the ball back into play" - in the corner between home terrace and family stand.
He's been working on his technique for a while now and is developing quite well.
It's no different to what many teams do, when winning, and to suggest otherwise is a little myopic.
Tjay is the cult hero that every club needs. Comes on, runs about loads, charges into people, whips the crowd up and, as it turns out, produces moments of real quality
I must admit that I was screaming at Jay to kick the ball at the defender & get the corner rather than cross it. In reality, looking at the highlights, I think that's what he tried to do, however the defender moved his legs together & tried to get out of the way. I was amazed to see Wing take the gamble and run towards the near post & get the shot away.
Yes we are a direct side but this season we have added craft to the graft and couth to the hoof. It's a blend that knows no end and watching our style of football every week is certainly not bleak.
McCarthy is quality. Stop taking comments personally. Did throws take inordinately long? Ball boy taking his time, player taking his time? Yes. Is that the way you play when in front? Yes. Is there anything wrong with that. As long as the ref lets you, just do it. The heading tennis. We could have brought the ball down and played on the floor but we played into your hands by joining in the head tennis. We were as guilty of that as you were. It takes two to tango. Facts. Not opinion. I wrote what happened. Nowhere did I say there's something wrong in it. You'll keep on doing it until a ref starts throwing yellows around like confetti. I don't blame you. Never written that I did. Vokes is the best target man in L1 and he brought players like Hanlan and McCarthy into the game. You play the game you play because it suits the squad you have. Nothing wrong in that. I did write I don't like that game and I don't. Doesn't mean it's wrong. In fact it's proving very effective for you. As a ref myself, I most certainly would stop the excessive time taken to complete a throw in. Other refs don't. It is what it is. You appear to feel persecuted somehow. Let me assure you, and other like minded Chairboys, that I am not persecuting anybody. Not by accident and not by design. Keep on doing what you do. It works for you. However, when a ref, and one will, gets you to hurry up or he'll be giving out yellow cards, you'll have to reduce the time taken with a throw. Again, all teams play to their own strengths and that can mean "bending" the rules. Do it until you're told not to. Next game, back to your normal game. Not critcism. Just my thoughts.
As I said in my reply to ReadingMarginalista, you do what you do for good reason and it works. For me, restarts at throws take way too long. If it was Derby doing it, I'd complain. It's time wasting and there's rules against it. I don't blame teams that do it. I blame the refs for not applying the Laws of the game. Footballers will do anything to get or maintain an advantage as long as the ref allows them. You like it. I don't have to. That's all and there's nothing wrong in either point of view.
Not enough credit is going to Wing for this. Great for TJ to get recognition for the assist but so often those types of ball end in an easy clearance for the defending team.
You were respectful and considered in your excellent post before yesterday’s game, but sadly you have resorted to the same cliches trotted out by less insightful supporters who just can’t handle being beaten by ‘little Wycombe.’ We had more shots and more shots on target than your very good team, missed several chances to score in the second half and thoroughly deserved the win. Instead of wasting time in minute 86 when our player had the ball in the corner, he crossed for what proved to be the winning goal. Please show a little more respect and dignity in defeat.
One of those where he probably thought it was worth a go - if it hits the defender he wins a corner, if it goes through there's a scoring opportunity. And it's one of those that needed everyone to be on the same page over what was going on.
Whilst not wanting to fall into the debate regarding our 'normal' style or excessive time taking throw ins, I am genuinely interested in your observations of the period of play for around 15 minutes prior to your equaliser.
From my observations it seemed in that segment of the game we played minimal 'head tennis' or 'hoofball' and were basically ripping your defence to shreds and with luck (that we had a bit of earlier and later) could easily have scored two or three goals.
Time wasting at throws from the 11th minute onwards. I don't like it. Simple. The heading tennis? I have written that we were as much to blame as you. I have written that I understand why you play to your strengths the way you do. I have praised 3 of your players in Vokes, McCreary and Hanlan. Very respectless and lacking dignity?. You did have more shots, 1 more and more shots on target, 1 more. No great difference there IMO. I have written "no complaints about the result". All respectful and dignified. Or do you think that I'm not allowed to not like something and say so (balance?)? Have good rest of the season. Nothing's guaranteed for any of us. Wednesday or Plymouth could implode. So could we. You might extend your current form, what is it, 7 wins in 9? It's the not knowing that makes it so interesting. We shall see come May who ends up where. Both in the top 6? That would be nice.
I'd agree if it hadn't started immediately after the 1-0. Not having a go or blaming the tactic. Merely saying I don't like it. Had Derby started that after going 1-0 in the 11th minute I would have the same opinion on it. It's time wasting and I don't have to like it. I don't care who does it, I don't think teams should do it. That's all there is to it.
A good period of play for you but it wasn't one way traffic. With regard to the heading tennis, I have now written in more than one thread that we were as much to blame as you. There is no "tennis" if one side brings the ball down and plays on the grass. We didn't and neither did you. Equal and shared blame. I have named 3 of your players as being excellent. That apparently gets ignored. I am at a complete and utter loss as to how/why you all seem able to pick out a phrase and complain about it whilst completely ignoring the rest of a sentence/post which rips holes in the complaint you make. I have also, in 4 or 5 threads written that I've no complaints about the result. Selctive reading/memory?
You are missing the point I was trying to make (not unusual I’m not usually very clear).
I am not disagreeing with much of what you are/were saying but, as I'm sure you’ll agree, most of it can be deemed a back-handed compliment (which is fine).
In my question I specifically focussed on the 15 minutes before your first goal as the way I saw it I thought we played excellent, direct, free flowing football and, for that period, were well on top.
There may be some element of light and dark blue tint to how I see things but I am usually reasonably attuned to how often we don’t play like that.
My interest is in whether your purple and white tinted perspective (nice change kit by the way) recognised that for that period of the game we did play ‘proper’ football or whether your bias and expectation of how you expect us to play (and had demonstrated first half in part) affected how you saw the game.
No problem either way, but an honest answer either way would allow me to make a more informed view on your credibility.
(I do accept that my observations on that period of the game may be wrong by the way)
You're just a tad hard in your comments here for me Alan, I feel that Raminpeace demonstrates a pretty reasonable balance and openness that is refreshing to read from true football appreciating opposition fans and I welcome well thought and presented differing views as it helps me gain a full 100% from a game that is far too easily reduced to 50%! As I said, just a tad hard....not that much!😉
Agreed @HolmerBlue I didn't see much except for the ball boys doing their job and taking a few extra seconds to give the ball back when we're in the lead. Was a fantastic game (except the ref who was way out of his depth with a Lg1 game), great end to end stuff with no discernible timewasting from our players.
Thought Vokes had his best game in the quarters so far, winning absolutely everything and tracking back throughout the game, tough to single him out though as didn't see any sub par performances from anyone in the quarters.
@Raminpeace I think everyone sees the game differently I guess! There were spells of head tennis yesterday, but to be honest what I saw was 2 teams looking to get the ball down and play good football. Something I felt they both had good success with. There was much to admire in the performance of both teams, any neutral watching would have been thoroughly entertained.
As for the time wasting. Probably a good job you didn't watch any of our matches from a few years ago when we were far more prolific in the art! I didn't really think there was anything worthy of a booking yesterday, or for the ref to clamp down on. We never looked to hang on with a 1 goal lead, we were always attacking and looking to score. Like you, I don't like to see time wasting and am glad to see yellow cards issued even when it's Wycombe players, it cuts out the nonsense straight away. Yesterday I didn't see anything that needed clamping down on. Ball boys were fine as far as I was concerned. As someone else pointed out, there's one in the corner of the family stand/terrace who can at times play up to the crowd, but I though he was alright yesterday.
I do hope football wise that we don't have to play Derby again. As apart from Sheffield Wednesday, I think they're probably the best side in the division. A 1 off match at AP, yes we can win. But over 2 legs, or a Wembley final, I wouldn't be so confident.
Good Lord, the comments from the DCFC fans on the BBC comments (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64520826) are saltier than the Dead Sea, a couple of realists, but mostly sad trolls...
Throw-ins are difficult if you want to be reasonably sure that they will reach a teammate who isn’t tightly marked. The only long-delayed example that I recall was early on (not sure if it was before or after our opening goal) taken (eventually) by McCarthy in line with the penalty spot. Derby defenders were outnumbering and tightly marking the two or three Wycombe “targets” available to him so I’m not surprised that he took 20 or so seconds to release the ball.
The thing that irks me more about throw-ins is the stealing of several yards (at least) before the throw is actually taken. As often as not, the player will respond to the referee’s signal to move back, only to run forward to the very spot from which they were originally going to throw it. In that situation I suppose you could say the ref was partly complicit.
Not sure ‘complicit’ is the right word but it’ll do.
On the subject of head-tennis/hoofball, @Raminpeace is correct in saying that Derby resorted to it as much as Wycombe but Wycombe interspersed it with something which I think reflects a level of togetherness/team spirit which few, if any, other League 1 teams can match. I refer to the many times during the game when a player on the ball would have two (even three) teammates in close proximity and their intricate interpassing at close quarters (just a few yards) was simply phenomenal. I didn’t see anything like that from Derby.
The funniest part of this debate is how long Derby players took to take throw ins - there was one very near the end that they took a huge amount of time over with the player messing about taking it from the wrong place etc. All the tricks that @Raminpeace seems to think we were doing. I can only imagine that either a) confirmation bias has convinced @Raminpeace that we were time wasting on perfectly average throw in times, or b) Derby players believed so much that they were entitled to win that they didn’t actually realise they were losing the game.
Must admit I haven’t bothered to read all of @Raminpeace long form essays (my bad). I am a fan of paragraph breaks and they seem to be beyond his posts.
But I have dived into the dcfans form(hilarious). A cheap bit of Chinese software suggests he is Daveisaram (or something like that) on there. Showing his true colours appears as deluded and entitled as all the others in denial about the state of their club and the self inflicted wounds they have imparted.
I am conflicted, don’t want them promoted but don’t want to play them again.
Comments
Back to the game, it was lovely to see so many of the team run to TJay to celebrate after his assist. He’s clearly well liked by the squad. Thought he was fantastic when he came on, both defensively and in attack.
In fairness to Raminpeace, I wasn't at the game yesterday but can probably identify which ballboy was "taking his time" getting the ball back into play" - in the corner between home terrace and family stand.
He's been working on his technique for a while now and is developing quite well.
It's no different to what many teams do, when winning, and to suggest otherwise is a little myopic.
Tjay is the cult hero that every club needs. Comes on, runs about loads, charges into people, whips the crowd up and, as it turns out, produces moments of real quality
I must admit that I was screaming at Jay to kick the ball at the defender & get the corner rather than cross it. In reality, looking at the highlights, I think that's what he tried to do, however the defender moved his legs together & tried to get out of the way. I was amazed to see Wing take the gamble and run towards the near post & get the shot away.
What a game! 🤩
Yes we are a direct side but this season we have added craft to the graft and couth to the hoof. It's a blend that knows no end and watching our style of football every week is certainly not bleak.
I dont even recall us time-wasting that much yesterday. If we did to our usual standards, we might have been spared their 2nd goal
Josh Scowen. One of the best to ever wear the shirt.
McCarthy is quality. Stop taking comments personally. Did throws take inordinately long? Ball boy taking his time, player taking his time? Yes. Is that the way you play when in front? Yes. Is there anything wrong with that. As long as the ref lets you, just do it. The heading tennis. We could have brought the ball down and played on the floor but we played into your hands by joining in the head tennis. We were as guilty of that as you were. It takes two to tango. Facts. Not opinion. I wrote what happened. Nowhere did I say there's something wrong in it. You'll keep on doing it until a ref starts throwing yellows around like confetti. I don't blame you. Never written that I did. Vokes is the best target man in L1 and he brought players like Hanlan and McCarthy into the game. You play the game you play because it suits the squad you have. Nothing wrong in that. I did write I don't like that game and I don't. Doesn't mean it's wrong. In fact it's proving very effective for you. As a ref myself, I most certainly would stop the excessive time taken to complete a throw in. Other refs don't. It is what it is. You appear to feel persecuted somehow. Let me assure you, and other like minded Chairboys, that I am not persecuting anybody. Not by accident and not by design. Keep on doing what you do. It works for you. However, when a ref, and one will, gets you to hurry up or he'll be giving out yellow cards, you'll have to reduce the time taken with a throw. Again, all teams play to their own strengths and that can mean "bending" the rules. Do it until you're told not to. Next game, back to your normal game. Not critcism. Just my thoughts.
As I said in my reply to ReadingMarginalista, you do what you do for good reason and it works. For me, restarts at throws take way too long. If it was Derby doing it, I'd complain. It's time wasting and there's rules against it. I don't blame teams that do it. I blame the refs for not applying the Laws of the game. Footballers will do anything to get or maintain an advantage as long as the ref allows them. You like it. I don't have to. That's all and there's nothing wrong in either point of view.
Not enough credit is going to Wing for this. Great for TJ to get recognition for the assist but so often those types of ball end in an easy clearance for the defending team.
Every single team in the league would waste time when they are winning a close game against a promotion rival. This really isn't just a Wycombe thing.
You were respectful and considered in your excellent post before yesterday’s game, but sadly you have resorted to the same cliches trotted out by less insightful supporters who just can’t handle being beaten by ‘little Wycombe.’ We had more shots and more shots on target than your very good team, missed several chances to score in the second half and thoroughly deserved the win. Instead of wasting time in minute 86 when our player had the ball in the corner, he crossed for what proved to be the winning goal. Please show a little more respect and dignity in defeat.
One of those where he probably thought it was worth a go - if it hits the defender he wins a corner, if it goes through there's a scoring opportunity. And it's one of those that needed everyone to be on the same page over what was going on.
To be honest we deserved more than a 3-2 margin. Second half we were totally in control.
@Raminpeace
Whilst not wanting to fall into the debate regarding our 'normal' style or excessive time taking throw ins, I am genuinely interested in your observations of the period of play for around 15 minutes prior to your equaliser.
From my observations it seemed in that segment of the game we played minimal 'head tennis' or 'hoofball' and were basically ripping your defence to shreds and with luck (that we had a bit of earlier and later) could easily have scored two or three goals.
Time wasting at throws from the 11th minute onwards. I don't like it. Simple. The heading tennis? I have written that we were as much to blame as you. I have written that I understand why you play to your strengths the way you do. I have praised 3 of your players in Vokes, McCreary and Hanlan. Very respectless and lacking dignity?. You did have more shots, 1 more and more shots on target, 1 more. No great difference there IMO. I have written "no complaints about the result". All respectful and dignified. Or do you think that I'm not allowed to not like something and say so (balance?)? Have good rest of the season. Nothing's guaranteed for any of us. Wednesday or Plymouth could implode. So could we. You might extend your current form, what is it, 7 wins in 9? It's the not knowing that makes it so interesting. We shall see come May who ends up where. Both in the top 6? That would be nice.
I'd agree if it hadn't started immediately after the 1-0. Not having a go or blaming the tactic. Merely saying I don't like it. Had Derby started that after going 1-0 in the 11th minute I would have the same opinion on it. It's time wasting and I don't have to like it. I don't care who does it, I don't think teams should do it. That's all there is to it.
A good period of play for you but it wasn't one way traffic. With regard to the heading tennis, I have now written in more than one thread that we were as much to blame as you. There is no "tennis" if one side brings the ball down and plays on the grass. We didn't and neither did you. Equal and shared blame. I have named 3 of your players as being excellent. That apparently gets ignored. I am at a complete and utter loss as to how/why you all seem able to pick out a phrase and complain about it whilst completely ignoring the rest of a sentence/post which rips holes in the complaint you make. I have also, in 4 or 5 threads written that I've no complaints about the result. Selctive reading/memory?
Mmmmm...tastes good.
I must have been watching a different game, what's all this time wasting being talked about ? Thought we were pretty good at not doing it yesterday
You are missing the point I was trying to make (not unusual I’m not usually very clear).
I am not disagreeing with much of what you are/were saying but, as I'm sure you’ll agree, most of it can be deemed a back-handed compliment (which is fine).
In my question I specifically focussed on the 15 minutes before your first goal as the way I saw it I thought we played excellent, direct, free flowing football and, for that period, were well on top.
There may be some element of light and dark blue tint to how I see things but I am usually reasonably attuned to how often we don’t play like that.
My interest is in whether your purple and white tinted perspective (nice change kit by the way) recognised that for that period of the game we did play ‘proper’ football or whether your bias and expectation of how you expect us to play (and had demonstrated first half in part) affected how you saw the game.
No problem either way, but an honest answer either way would allow me to make a more informed view on your credibility.
(I do accept that my observations on that period of the game may be wrong by the way)
You're just a tad hard in your comments here for me Alan, I feel that Raminpeace demonstrates a pretty reasonable balance and openness that is refreshing to read from true football appreciating opposition fans and I welcome well thought and presented differing views as it helps me gain a full 100% from a game that is far too easily reduced to 50%! As I said, just a tad hard....not that much!😉
Agreed @HolmerBlue I didn't see much except for the ball boys doing their job and taking a few extra seconds to give the ball back when we're in the lead. Was a fantastic game (except the ref who was way out of his depth with a Lg1 game), great end to end stuff with no discernible timewasting from our players.
Thought Vokes had his best game in the quarters so far, winning absolutely everything and tracking back throughout the game, tough to single him out though as didn't see any sub par performances from anyone in the quarters.
Still smiling 😁
@Raminpeace I think everyone sees the game differently I guess! There were spells of head tennis yesterday, but to be honest what I saw was 2 teams looking to get the ball down and play good football. Something I felt they both had good success with. There was much to admire in the performance of both teams, any neutral watching would have been thoroughly entertained.
As for the time wasting. Probably a good job you didn't watch any of our matches from a few years ago when we were far more prolific in the art! I didn't really think there was anything worthy of a booking yesterday, or for the ref to clamp down on. We never looked to hang on with a 1 goal lead, we were always attacking and looking to score. Like you, I don't like to see time wasting and am glad to see yellow cards issued even when it's Wycombe players, it cuts out the nonsense straight away. Yesterday I didn't see anything that needed clamping down on. Ball boys were fine as far as I was concerned. As someone else pointed out, there's one in the corner of the family stand/terrace who can at times play up to the crowd, but I though he was alright yesterday.
I do hope football wise that we don't have to play Derby again. As apart from Sheffield Wednesday, I think they're probably the best side in the division. A 1 off match at AP, yes we can win. But over 2 legs, or a Wembley final, I wouldn't be so confident.
Good Lord, the comments from the DCFC fans on the BBC comments (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64520826) are saltier than the Dead Sea, a couple of realists, but mostly sad trolls...
Throw-ins are difficult if you want to be reasonably sure that they will reach a teammate who isn’t tightly marked. The only long-delayed example that I recall was early on (not sure if it was before or after our opening goal) taken (eventually) by McCarthy in line with the penalty spot. Derby defenders were outnumbering and tightly marking the two or three Wycombe “targets” available to him so I’m not surprised that he took 20 or so seconds to release the ball.
The thing that irks me more about throw-ins is the stealing of several yards (at least) before the throw is actually taken. As often as not, the player will respond to the referee’s signal to move back, only to run forward to the very spot from which they were originally going to throw it. In that situation I suppose you could say the ref was partly complicit.
Not sure ‘complicit’ is the right word but it’ll do.
On the subject of head-tennis/hoofball, @Raminpeace is correct in saying that Derby resorted to it as much as Wycombe but Wycombe interspersed it with something which I think reflects a level of togetherness/team spirit which few, if any, other League 1 teams can match. I refer to the many times during the game when a player on the ball would have two (even three) teammates in close proximity and their intricate interpassing at close quarters (just a few yards) was simply phenomenal. I didn’t see anything like that from Derby.
The funniest part of this debate is how long Derby players took to take throw ins - there was one very near the end that they took a huge amount of time over with the player messing about taking it from the wrong place etc. All the tricks that @Raminpeace seems to think we were doing. I can only imagine that either a) confirmation bias has convinced @Raminpeace that we were time wasting on perfectly average throw in times, or b) Derby players believed so much that they were entitled to win that they didn’t actually realise they were losing the game.
Must admit I haven’t bothered to read all of @Raminpeace long form essays (my bad). I am a fan of paragraph breaks and they seem to be beyond his posts.
But I have dived into the dcfans form(hilarious). A cheap bit of Chinese software suggests he is Daveisaram (or something like that) on there. Showing his true colours appears as deluded and entitled as all the others in denial about the state of their club and the self inflicted wounds they have imparted.
I am conflicted, don’t want them promoted but don’t want to play them again.
I know, let’s go up ourselves.
I mentioned this early which has been ignored!
I'd love to play them again and beat them even more convincingly