Thank you for your never ending contributions!!. Time to move on. Both teams got games tonight to look forward to. The bottom line is you cheated and were found out and Wycombe were not responsible for your problems.
Well thanks for what in general has been decent posts @Raminpeace. The big issue I have is that how can the current DCFC pay what most of us would consider big wages, (lets be honest here, most of your squad will be on much more than ours at a guess), yet wipe their mouths clean of a £28M pound debt to HMRC? After all,I have had a full days visit by the taxman who went through my books of 5 years to eventually walk away with the princely sum of £28.47 on a mistake I made in the third year books.
I keep asking myself, how many nurses would that money pay for and wonder how many of those DCFC fans stand on a picket line in solidarity with those nurses?
We (not every fan but some) supported the Blackpool fans, the Bolton fans, the Bury fans when their clubs were in trouble. All 3 sets of fans still remember that support and still appreciate it. January 28th 2023, we didn't have a game and some fans went to support Scunthorpe in their battle with their owners. So, yes, empathetic. I have no knowledge of whether there are fans of any club on the nurses picket lines.
Maybe then you should start a whip round to pay the tax you dodged, and the St John's Ambulance people that you stiffed, and all the small business owners who you screwed into the ground. Can't see it happening somehow though.
Whip round for St John's? That happened. As soon as it was announced that they were owed around £8K, an online whip round raised over 20K from fans inside 24 hours (I was one of them). I agree with your sentiment regarding tax etc. It doesn't sit well with me. However, even more so these days, football is a business and, legally, conforms to the Laws regarding a company. When a company (and all professional clubs are companies) goes into Administration there are Laws regarding exiting Admin. It appears that Rams Limited or Gellaw whatever under Morris or whatever David Clowes football company is called adhered to those Laws and to the EFL rules regarding exiting admin. No different to any other company in financial difficulty. Clowes came up with a package. That was put to creditors, including HMRC. HMRC could have said NO and there would be no DCFC. We came that close to extinction. A significant group of other creditors could also have stopped the package. We got lucky. No doubt about that.
Out of interest only not wishing to pick an argument, what's to stop any football club doing likewise? After all, we could easily overspend, take the gamble & if it doesn't come off, dissolve & restart. 🤷♂️
Without wanting to upset anyone I just don’t get it when it comes to Rooney. As far as I read it he deferred his wages, big difference to foregoing. He was on an astronomical sum when he joined them and therefore his wage contributed to their debt. His coaching skills can hardly be considered the work of genius. Maybe it’s just me.
Taf has done a match day YouTube for last Saturdays game. Really interesting and informative and he gets on the terrace towards the end of the game. Well worth a watch.
EFL rules...if I've understood you correctly. If you dissolve, as a club, you no longer exist and will lose the Golden Ticket of EFL membership. Restart and you may well get away starting at National League North/South or one level below. As I've said before, we got lucky. No denying that. In our case, the company that was an EFL member was bought out by another company, not dissolved. One that the EFL trusted or they wouldn't have sanctioned the deal, although they also sanctioned Morris in 2015....
More like an intercontinental ballistic missile Andy. The man has been arrested and charged with illegally channelling $20M from his company, Slync.io, to his personal accounts. If found guilty he faces a maximum sentence of 20 years. That's an awful long time to go without a shower... I have no doubt, whatsoever, that, had he kept that money in his account and bought Derby with it, rather than spending it on a plane, sponsoring golf tournaments etc we would be out of business and my interest in football would be limited to the English and Dutch national teams (English born, naturalised Dutch having lived here since '84).
@Raminpeace If Derby ever do fold again, you can always follow the Chairboys. You are already following the forum, it’s a very small step from there. There will be those who mutter unsavoury things, but you should not let others stop you from being who you really are. I feel confident that once you are ‘out’, a tidal wave of closet Chairboys hiding behind ‘wouldn’t want to watch that every week’ type comments would ensue.
To be honest, it seems as though our anger has been aimed in the wrong direction. While Derby and the club were caught over-spending , the players and fans of the club had done nothing wrong and they were punished just because they support or were employed by the club. Our anger comes from the fact that we missed out on staying up by 1 point and not being able to watch in person, our team making history in the Championship and feeling that we were robbed. Our anger should be aimed purely at Morris but also the EFL as they gave Derby an escape by allowing them an extended deadline and a long, drawn out hearing which meant that they were allowed to stay in the Championship for an extra season.
If the same situation happened with us and Wycombe were hit with different restrictions and point penalties because Rob Couhig decided that he wants out and has stopped paying the staff and stadium (something that has been worried about previously). Our opposition fans would feel exactly the same towards us. We know from the meeting before Christmas that the club is losing money and was projected to loose £3M + this season alone (This has prob changed due to player departures) so whats to say that we aren't that far away from being caught in the same situation??
@Raminpeace I appreciate your views on the matter and to a point I do understand where you are coming from. I think that your fan base (not you in particular) need to acknowledge that the club did wrong, you gained from doing things incorrectly and that the changes you have been forced to make, will ensure a more level playing field in the future? At the moment, that hasn't happened and I think the fans of Derby won't win anyone over until this has been acknowledged because you have been too busy pointing fingers at our chairman, Middlesbrough's Chairman, the FA & local businesses saying that it's all our fault. If the club and fans hold their hands up, own the mistakes, then I think everyone can start to move on
@Otter87, it wasn't the EFL which gave Derby an extended/open deadline (to resubmit adjusted accounts) but the independent panel - to whom the EFL referred the appeal. You can't keep telling Derby fans to embrace the truth and then misrepresent what actually happened.
We can blame the EFL for many things but not, sadly, the fact that they couldn't impose the second points deduction in the "correct" season which would have seen us stay in the Championship.
Just watched it, a little long but overall a good watch especially from 12 mins on when he's at the game. Spotted myself going nuts after we scored our first and captures the atmosphere of the day and the game well.
Mine very much was towards Mel Morris until the their fans started coming out the with the sense of entitlement that the club should be allowed to get away with everything because it’s such an important part of the community, forgetting it was largely parts of that community it owed money to and was trying to absolve itself from paying.
and the complete lack of self reflection about them not giving a sh1t about how they were lording Morris and his obvious over spending on there go for broke attempts at promotion.
How would we act if we were in a similar position? Think you’ll find we were. And what did we do? Organise and fight against the owner, try and hold him to some kind of account and ultimately take ownership of the club which resulted in losing our academy, and being only able to name 13 players in a match day squad for a season or two until ve slowly rebuilt.
so excuse me if a portion of my anger is aimed squarely at the derby fans.
Comments
Thank you for your never ending contributions!!. Time to move on. Both teams got games tonight to look forward to. The bottom line is you cheated and were found out and Wycombe were not responsible for your problems.
YA BOO SUCKS! As Billy Bunter used to say
Well thanks for what in general has been decent posts @Raminpeace. The big issue I have is that how can the current DCFC pay what most of us would consider big wages, (lets be honest here, most of your squad will be on much more than ours at a guess), yet wipe their mouths clean of a £28M pound debt to HMRC? After all,I have had a full days visit by the taxman who went through my books of 5 years to eventually walk away with the princely sum of £28.47 on a mistake I made in the third year books.
I keep asking myself, how many nurses would that money pay for and wonder how many of those DCFC fans stand on a picket line in solidarity with those nurses?
how many of those DCFC fans stand on a picket line in solidarity with those nurses?
I'd guess none as that would require empathy.
A fair few from Derby and Notts crossed the picket line in 1984, not renowned for being staunch comrades.
Never said you were.....
We (not every fan but some) supported the Blackpool fans, the Bolton fans, the Bury fans when their clubs were in trouble. All 3 sets of fans still remember that support and still appreciate it. January 28th 2023, we didn't have a game and some fans went to support Scunthorpe in their battle with their owners. So, yes, empathetic. I have no knowledge of whether there are fans of any club on the nurses picket lines.
Respectfully, may I suggest you go back to your own forum now?
Don’t forget, Derby fans were quite big on the ‘football family’ while they were in administration.
Not quite as bothered now though.
Maybe then you should start a whip round to pay the tax you dodged, and the St John's Ambulance people that you stiffed, and all the small business owners who you screwed into the ground. Can't see it happening somehow though.
Remember when this bloke wanted to buy Derby? https://twitter.com/DavidJeans2/status/1625538626745409537?t=ySmKRzFE7jpPy0a1uLUPdw&s=19
Can we close this thread now?
Whip round for St John's? That happened. As soon as it was announced that they were owed around £8K, an online whip round raised over 20K from fans inside 24 hours (I was one of them). I agree with your sentiment regarding tax etc. It doesn't sit well with me. However, even more so these days, football is a business and, legally, conforms to the Laws regarding a company. When a company (and all professional clubs are companies) goes into Administration there are Laws regarding exiting Admin. It appears that Rams Limited or Gellaw whatever under Morris or whatever David Clowes football company is called adhered to those Laws and to the EFL rules regarding exiting admin. No different to any other company in financial difficulty. Clowes came up with a package. That was put to creditors, including HMRC. HMRC could have said NO and there would be no DCFC. We came that close to extinction. A significant group of other creditors could also have stopped the package. We got lucky. No doubt about that.
@Raminpeace good on you mate but all good things come to an end eh - cricket starts tomorrow
Did the cricket ever end? Seem to have been watching it on the box all winter ;)
Out of interest only not wishing to pick an argument, what's to stop any football club doing likewise? After all, we could easily overspend, take the gamble & if it doesn't come off, dissolve & restart. 🤷♂️
At least you dodged one bullet in Chris Kirchner. One has to wonder who at Derby County was doing due diligence with these charlatans
Thankfully the decision to go with Kirchner was not left to Wayne ‘freedom of the city’ Rooney…
Without wanting to upset anyone I just don’t get it when it comes to Rooney. As far as I read it he deferred his wages, big difference to foregoing. He was on an astronomical sum when he joined them and therefore his wage contributed to their debt. His coaching skills can hardly be considered the work of genius. Maybe it’s just me.
Taf has done a match day YouTube for last Saturdays game. Really interesting and informative and he gets on the terrace towards the end of the game. Well worth a watch.
Thanks @perfidious_albion. One to savour tomorrow.
Your last paragraph zzzzzzzzzz
EFL rules...if I've understood you correctly. If you dissolve, as a club, you no longer exist and will lose the Golden Ticket of EFL membership. Restart and you may well get away starting at National League North/South or one level below. As I've said before, we got lucky. No denying that. In our case, the company that was an EFL member was bought out by another company, not dissolved. One that the EFL trusted or they wouldn't have sanctioned the deal, although they also sanctioned Morris in 2015....
More like an intercontinental ballistic missile Andy. The man has been arrested and charged with illegally channelling $20M from his company, Slync.io, to his personal accounts. If found guilty he faces a maximum sentence of 20 years. That's an awful long time to go without a shower... I have no doubt, whatsoever, that, had he kept that money in his account and bought Derby with it, rather than spending it on a plane, sponsoring golf tournaments etc we would be out of business and my interest in football would be limited to the English and Dutch national teams (English born, naturalised Dutch having lived here since '84).
@Raminpeace If Derby ever do fold again, you can always follow the Chairboys. You are already following the forum, it’s a very small step from there. There will be those who mutter unsavoury things, but you should not let others stop you from being who you really are. I feel confident that once you are ‘out’, a tidal wave of closet Chairboys hiding behind ‘wouldn’t want to watch that every week’ type comments would ensue.
To be honest, it seems as though our anger has been aimed in the wrong direction. While Derby and the club were caught over-spending , the players and fans of the club had done nothing wrong and they were punished just because they support or were employed by the club. Our anger comes from the fact that we missed out on staying up by 1 point and not being able to watch in person, our team making history in the Championship and feeling that we were robbed. Our anger should be aimed purely at Morris but also the EFL as they gave Derby an escape by allowing them an extended deadline and a long, drawn out hearing which meant that they were allowed to stay in the Championship for an extra season.
If the same situation happened with us and Wycombe were hit with different restrictions and point penalties because Rob Couhig decided that he wants out and has stopped paying the staff and stadium (something that has been worried about previously). Our opposition fans would feel exactly the same towards us. We know from the meeting before Christmas that the club is losing money and was projected to loose £3M + this season alone (This has prob changed due to player departures) so whats to say that we aren't that far away from being caught in the same situation??
@Raminpeace I appreciate your views on the matter and to a point I do understand where you are coming from. I think that your fan base (not you in particular) need to acknowledge that the club did wrong, you gained from doing things incorrectly and that the changes you have been forced to make, will ensure a more level playing field in the future? At the moment, that hasn't happened and I think the fans of Derby won't win anyone over until this has been acknowledged because you have been too busy pointing fingers at our chairman, Middlesbrough's Chairman, the FA & local businesses saying that it's all our fault. If the club and fans hold their hands up, own the mistakes, then I think everyone can start to move on
@Otter87, it wasn't the EFL which gave Derby an extended/open deadline (to resubmit adjusted accounts) but the independent panel - to whom the EFL referred the appeal. You can't keep telling Derby fans to embrace the truth and then misrepresent what actually happened.
We can blame the EFL for many things but not, sadly, the fact that they couldn't impose the second points deduction in the "correct" season which would have seen us stay in the Championship.
I saw one clip going around where he was mic'd up.
I all sounded very polite, "big man, you keep holding me" and "ref have a word please" type fare.
I can't believe that's anywhere near the standard type patter pro players have!
Just watched it, a little long but overall a good watch especially from 12 mins on when he's at the game. Spotted myself going nuts after we scored our first and captures the atmosphere of the day and the game well.
Speak for yourself re: anger towards Derby.
Mine very much was towards Mel Morris until the their fans started coming out the with the sense of entitlement that the club should be allowed to get away with everything because it’s such an important part of the community, forgetting it was largely parts of that community it owed money to and was trying to absolve itself from paying.
and the complete lack of self reflection about them not giving a sh1t about how they were lording Morris and his obvious over spending on there go for broke attempts at promotion.
How would we act if we were in a similar position? Think you’ll find we were. And what did we do? Organise and fight against the owner, try and hold him to some kind of account and ultimately take ownership of the club which resulted in losing our academy, and being only able to name 13 players in a match day squad for a season or two until ve slowly rebuilt.
so excuse me if a portion of my anger is aimed squarely at the derby fans.