If we sneak into the playoffs, I think it is Plymouth in the semis. Last season after MK did the double over us I felt all along that if we got them in the playoffs we would beat them - I feel the same way about Plymouth this time around.
Derby and Wednesday will finish top two in my opinion. I actually think Derby might flirt with the league title.
Ipswich and Plymouth are nailed for playoffs. [You can potentially swap Plymouth and Derby, but losing Cooper and Scarr will seriously damage PAFC's chances].
Call me crazy, but from what I've season in the last few months, I think we're ever so slightly better than the rest: Barnsley, Bolton, Peterborough. We're also notably better than those below.
I'd be quite bullish about our playoff chances, especially if Derby go up via autos and it's Plymouth in the playoffs without Cooper and in less favourable form.
I must say it continues to leave a bad taste in the mouth that Derby couldn’t pay their debts off in full when leaving administration on 1 July 2022, and then later that month they are paying the wages of the likes of Conor Hourihane and James Collins who the vast majority of clubs at this level couldn’t afford.
I agree on most of that except that every time I turn around, Bolton seem to have won another game. It will be interesting to see how we match up to them when we play again after they took us apart at their place (albeit in the Tyla era when we were allowing the full backs to live at the opposition corner flags with no cover for the CBs).
Well they have been punished, it’s the extent that is the issue. They were deducted points. I am not saying I agree that the punishment actually fitted the crime but it is gone now and I would prefer to get on with it and beat them on Saturday.
I personally don’t hold any grudges as far as Derby are concerned.
I’m afraid I don’t, when you get to my age you struggle to remember what you did an hour ago never mind what seems a lifetime ago. I had the privilege of working with both Saint and Greavsie, two outstanding players and wonderful characters. I’ve also worked with Cascarino, another top guy.
One thing I will point out is you did not have five players 3 weeks before the season started. Just over 3 weeks before the season started you played a friendly, 21 of those 23 players involved in that game were signed on at the club and are still at the club.
You had about 40 players registered with the League on Sept 1st, the second highest in League One.
You may not have paid a fee for anyone but you had a big squad in early July, the second biggest squad by Sep 1st and the third highest wage budget for the season.
The press have published it many times. It's been on the club site in interviews with Warne on several occasions. It's the norm in these "business plans", not just in this case.
Whem McG and Hourihane signed, both said it was Rosenior's vision of the future which persuaded them to come. They wanted to be part of project. Both turned down financially better offers from SBC clubs. The videos can be found on dcfc.co.uk.
Here's a thought for you and Doc Congo.... let's, just for one moment, accept that you're right and we are paying agents. Halfway through next season the EFL somehow finds out. We'd be lucky to be allowed to play tier 6 or 7 the season after, if at all.... and deservedly so.
You have to remember it's not the Mel Morris show anymore. David Clowes was, until this season, a season ticket holder in the North Stand and had been ever since Pride Park opened. Before that he had a season ticket at the BBG. In more ways than one, we are not the club we were. I suppose some will never accept anything that taints their particular viewpoint. IMO Clowes would do nothing to risk the club's future, having just shelled out around £50M, all told, to save the business.
Now, back to the EFL. It seems they will stop at nothing to ruin our chances of promotion at the first time of asking. What have they done now, I hear you ask...
... quite simply they've decided to gift Wycombe 3 points tomorrow. How? They've just announced Warne as L1 Manager of the Month!! Buggers have jinxed us
"As part of the conditions of continuing membership in the EFL, the club, while remaining under a registration embargo, will be permitted to sign new players in accordance with the terms of a business plan," it said. "The plan, which has been jointly agreed by the new ownership and the EFL, includes restrictions in respect of transfers fees, player wages and agents’ fees.
"Any application to register players must comply with the terms of those agreed plans."
"When McG and Hourihane signed, both said it was Rosenior's vision of the future which persuaded them to come"
Not sure too many players announce they only came for the £, not even at PSG or Wrexham.
Interesting they liked Roseniors vision but the board didn't. Replacing a perfectly good upcoming manager with a coaching staff from a higher division doesn't seem like absolutely essential spending either but that doesn't seem to have been mandated.
Trying not to come across like a dick here, but "restrictions in respect of transfers fees, player wages and agents’ fees" is very different from "not allowed to pay transfer or agents' fees". We know for a fact that you're allowed to pay player wages, so those three things being put together in that sentence suggests you're also allowed to pay transfer and agents' fees, albeit "restricted". There are ways around most of these things for any club adventurous enough to try, and history would suggest that Derby have a pretty adventurous spirit when it comes to skirting financial restrictions.
Really depends what the point of the argument is, can see they've done a decent rebuilding job and are now a good team with good players, extremely good crowds and income for the division and presumably low or zero debt. Although it might be funny as it was with Sunderland they probably won't be here long
But if they are trying to justify how little they paid back or that they are even competing against teams in this division on fair terms that is a different story altogether. They would be dim to be cheating now, despite what went on before as they simply don't need to, the EFL have done them a great service setting their allowed spend at a level that gives them a good team but limits them from silly marquee signings they might regret later.As for whether they were really punished for the accounting delays rather than the administration or accounting errors, probably not, but that's been done to death.
OK, nit pickers. Here's a quote from Warne on why he'd turn down offers for players like Knight and Cashin...... I wouldn't accept the offer as I can't use the money to buy replacements.
Jeez, some folk don't half turn pedantics into an art form.
Meanwhile your manager is claiming Derby are too big for League 1. I disagree. Morris getting too big for his boots out us here and we have to play our way out of it.
I think what posters are thinking is that it is highly unlikely that an agent would waive his agents fee because of your situation. If an agent has a contract with a player and part of that contract would includes fees for negotiating contracts with clubs that the player will sign for.
I suspect that the agent would be unwilling to do the leg work and not be paid. Equally, I would think that some of the players you signed were under contract with an agency, rather then doing their won leg work.
Therefore, it seems logical that agents would have received a fee ins ome way shape or form. Whether that was directly from Derby or whether Derby paid the player an upfront signing on fee, which the player then used to cover his agents fees I'm not so sure.
As no one knows the in's and out's, as we haven't seen the books and the statement you provided said there were "restrictions" rather than not allowed at all, I'm not sure anyone is being a pedant.
I did enjoy your initial post on this thread as I wrote at the time, but to suggest that players sign for the manager’s ‘vision’ when they have more lucrative offers on the table, and to believe that agents won’t require some recompense for arranging transfers is extremely idealistic bordering on naive.
Comments
It's a stretch to say they've been punished
How much did HMRC write off ? Or was it undisclosed ?
If we sneak into the playoffs, I think it is Plymouth in the semis. Last season after MK did the double over us I felt all along that if we got them in the playoffs we would beat them - I feel the same way about Plymouth this time around.
Derby and Wednesday will finish top two in my opinion. I actually think Derby might flirt with the league title.
Ipswich and Plymouth are nailed for playoffs. [You can potentially swap Plymouth and Derby, but losing Cooper and Scarr will seriously damage PAFC's chances].
Call me crazy, but from what I've season in the last few months, I think we're ever so slightly better than the rest: Barnsley, Bolton, Peterborough. We're also notably better than those below.
I'd be quite bullish about our playoff chances, especially if Derby go up via autos and it's Plymouth in the playoffs without Cooper and in less favourable form.
I must say it continues to leave a bad taste in the mouth that Derby couldn’t pay their debts off in full when leaving administration on 1 July 2022, and then later that month they are paying the wages of the likes of Conor Hourihane and James Collins who the vast majority of clubs at this level couldn’t afford.
I agree on most of that except that every time I turn around, Bolton seem to have won another game. It will be interesting to see how we match up to them when we play again after they took us apart at their place (albeit in the Tyla era when we were allowing the full backs to live at the opposition corner flags with no cover for the CBs).
Well they have been punished, it’s the extent that is the issue. They were deducted points. I am not saying I agree that the punishment actually fitted the crime but it is gone now and I would prefer to get on with it and beat them on Saturday.
I personally don’t hold any grudges as far as Derby are concerned.
I’m afraid I don’t, when you get to my age you struggle to remember what you did an hour ago never mind what seems a lifetime ago. I had the privilege of working with both Saint and Greavsie, two outstanding players and wonderful characters. I’ve also worked with Cascarino, another top guy.
His autobiography (Cascarino) is one of the best football books I've ever read.
Fun fact: Tony Adams' wife borrowed my copy and never gave it back
I enjoyed the read, thanks.
One thing I will point out is you did not have five players 3 weeks before the season started. Just over 3 weeks before the season started you played a friendly, 21 of those 23 players involved in that game were signed on at the club and are still at the club.
You had about 40 players registered with the League on Sept 1st, the second highest in League One.
You may not have paid a fee for anyone but you had a big squad in early July, the second biggest squad by Sep 1st and the third highest wage budget for the season.
The press have published it many times. It's been on the club site in interviews with Warne on several occasions. It's the norm in these "business plans", not just in this case.
Whem McG and Hourihane signed, both said it was Rosenior's vision of the future which persuaded them to come. They wanted to be part of project. Both turned down financially better offers from SBC clubs. The videos can be found on dcfc.co.uk.
Here's a thought for you and Doc Congo.... let's, just for one moment, accept that you're right and we are paying agents. Halfway through next season the EFL somehow finds out. We'd be lucky to be allowed to play tier 6 or 7 the season after, if at all.... and deservedly so.
You have to remember it's not the Mel Morris show anymore. David Clowes was, until this season, a season ticket holder in the North Stand and had been ever since Pride Park opened. Before that he had a season ticket at the BBG. In more ways than one, we are not the club we were. I suppose some will never accept anything that taints their particular viewpoint. IMO Clowes would do nothing to risk the club's future, having just shelled out around £50M, all told, to save the business.
Now, back to the EFL. It seems they will stop at nothing to ruin our chances of promotion at the first time of asking. What have they done now, I hear you ask...
... quite simply they've decided to gift Wycombe 3 points tomorrow. How? They've just announced Warne as L1 Manager of the Month!! Buggers have jinxed us
😉
Here's one quote from the Derby Telegraph..
"As part of the conditions of continuing membership in the EFL, the club, while remaining under a registration embargo, will be permitted to sign new players in accordance with the terms of a business plan," it said. "The plan, which has been jointly agreed by the new ownership and the EFL, includes restrictions in respect of transfers fees, player wages and agents’ fees.
"Any application to register players must comply with the terms of those agreed plans."
Taken from https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-transfer-embargo-efl-7312028
We need more details here
Absolutely. Isn't she heir to the Guinness fortune, or something. Couldn't she afford her own copy?
"When McG and Hourihane signed, both said it was Rosenior's vision of the future which persuaded them to come"
Not sure too many players announce they only came for the £, not even at PSG or Wrexham.
Interesting they liked Roseniors vision but the board didn't. Replacing a perfectly good upcoming manager with a coaching staff from a higher division doesn't seem like absolutely essential spending either but that doesn't seem to have been mandated.
Trying not to come across like a dick here, but "restrictions in respect of transfers fees, player wages and agents’ fees" is very different from "not allowed to pay transfer or agents' fees". We know for a fact that you're allowed to pay player wages, so those three things being put together in that sentence suggests you're also allowed to pay transfer and agents' fees, albeit "restricted". There are ways around most of these things for any club adventurous enough to try, and history would suggest that Derby have a pretty adventurous spirit when it comes to skirting financial restrictions.
Really depends what the point of the argument is, can see they've done a decent rebuilding job and are now a good team with good players, extremely good crowds and income for the division and presumably low or zero debt. Although it might be funny as it was with Sunderland they probably won't be here long
But if they are trying to justify how little they paid back or that they are even competing against teams in this division on fair terms that is a different story altogether. They would be dim to be cheating now, despite what went on before as they simply don't need to, the EFL have done them a great service setting their allowed spend at a level that gives them a good team but limits them from silly marquee signings they might regret later.As for whether they were really punished for the accounting delays rather than the administration or accounting errors, probably not, but that's been done to death.
OK, nit pickers. Here's a quote from Warne on why he'd turn down offers for players like Knight and Cashin...... I wouldn't accept the offer as I can't use the money to buy replacements.
Jeez, some folk don't half turn pedantics into an art form.
Meanwhile your manager is claiming Derby are too big for League 1. I disagree. Morris getting too big for his boots out us here and we have to play our way out of it.
I think what posters are thinking is that it is highly unlikely that an agent would waive his agents fee because of your situation. If an agent has a contract with a player and part of that contract would includes fees for negotiating contracts with clubs that the player will sign for.
I suspect that the agent would be unwilling to do the leg work and not be paid. Equally, I would think that some of the players you signed were under contract with an agency, rather then doing their won leg work.
Therefore, it seems logical that agents would have received a fee ins ome way shape or form. Whether that was directly from Derby or whether Derby paid the player an upfront signing on fee, which the player then used to cover his agents fees I'm not so sure.
As no one knows the in's and out's, as we haven't seen the books and the statement you provided said there were "restrictions" rather than not allowed at all, I'm not sure anyone is being a pedant.
Roll on next season after promotion having beaten Plymouth in the playoff final and Derby are left in League 1....
COYB
I did enjoy your initial post on this thread as I wrote at the time, but to suggest that players sign for the manager’s ‘vision’ when they have more lucrative offers on the table, and to believe that agents won’t require some recompense for arranging transfers is extremely idealistic bordering on naive.
Merely quoting the players. So I'm not suggesting anything, I'm quoting players who signed.
Of a course a player who signs is going to say they believe in the club's vision, or similar.
@Raminpeace
”Jeez, some folk don't half turn pedantics into an art form”
I’d have thought you’d have spent enough time on this forum to realise that is exactly what we do on here!
Funky Elephant in attendance tomorrow. Excellent
Manager says he "wouldn't accept the offer (for highly sort after player) as I can't use the money to buy replacements."
Wtf? HMRC / stiffed creditors should really say we'll take it.
Ahhhh you are thinking as if Rooney / Derby / Football lived in a financially moral world.
Ouch, that hurts.