Apologies @Malone. Misread/misunderstood irony of your comment about the Derby ‘keeper. I realise now that it was your version of the kind of spurious defence a Derby supporter might have spouted.
It does feel like Gareth has again a side which is greater than the sum of its parts, and the players that currently grace the light and dark blue quarters are at least as good as those we remember with a sense of pride and joy.
Promotion in a play off final without fans - Bless Bill Turnbull - followed by a season almost all without fans was hard. Our memories of the season in the Championship are individual and not collective. Nevertheless we do have them and we so very nearly stayed in that division. We also have glorious memories of last year, straight back into the play-offs. I will never forget the two semi-final games against the club that shouldn't be. I remember tasting the full range of emotions across the games, amazement and joy in the first game and tension and then joy in the second. Wembley was its own thing - somewhat like the Wembley game against Southend was its own thing.
We have a club to be proud of, run by people we are proud of. It feels to me that once again we have a team which enjoys football. There are no expectations on us from the outside world - the home win shows as 5/2 on Oddschecker. We know that we will give Derby a good game. I remember the atmosphere from the away game in Peterborough not so long ago. I remember playing Oxford off the park afterwards. This is a Wycombe side which wins 3 - 0 away from home.
So I am looking forward to Saturday. There are many reasons for many people why this game has a sharp edge. I like we will give it our best shot. What more can you ask from a football game?
FWIW, I think he was onside. They say things even themselves out. Swings and roundabouts..... here's one where Jason Knight had a goal ruled out for offside against Huddersfield. He's obviously well onside. Here's to no such contentious decisions on Saturday.
What a splendid post, sums up my own feelings perfectly. It’s good to stand back and look at the bigger picture, makes one thankful for what we’ve got rather than resentful for what we haven’t got.
In response to the poster who waxed lyrical about our form, here's what's changed since the reverse fixture, IMO.
When you visited Pride Park on September 17th we had Liam Rosenior in charge. He did amazingly well on an outlay of £0 to put the squad together. Following that game we were 7th in the table, out of the playoff places on goal difference, played 9, won 4, drawn 2 and lost 3, GF 9, GA 9, GD 0. The problem was we had between 60% and 70% possession in games but much of that possession was the back 4 and the keeper. We were playing, almost exclusively, out from the back and at a snail's pace. IIRC, 4 of the 9 GA were caused by us getting high pressed on the edge of our box, losing possession and then opposition scoring. We also never looked like scoring in away games. Liam, as interim manager was replaced by PW and his team on September 22nd. Since then we've played 19, W11, D 6, L 3, GF 36, GA 12, GD 24. 4th place, 2 points off 3rd with a game in hand, 8 off 2nd with a game in hand. Not lost in 15 League games.
It took a few games for the change to evolve. 3 weeks before the start of the season, we had 5 players. The ones we got in were free agents, free transfers and free loans. No players between the ages of 23 and 29. Short pre season and the corresponding lack of all round fitness. Not a complaint, just the way it was. Warne upped the training intensity. The players are much fitter. He changed the way we play. Introduced variation. It was no longer predominantly playing from the back at a snail's pace. We do still play from the back part of the time but we now play much quicker through the thirds. Players like Cashin, Forsyth (the only current player we paid a fee for, £150K 10 years ago, and Bird spray crossfield balls over 50 and 60 yards. Route 1 is also used. We mix it up. How that happens depends on who's up top. 4231 is the system. Smith at RB is a midfielder. Fozzy at RCB is a left back. Cashin is a CB. Sibley at LB is an AM. They have conceded just 12 in 19 games..... Last 2 games Roberts has played LB as Sibs was injured. Not sure who will be there. The 2? Bird is out for 4 weeks so we'll either play Knight there (prefer him in the 3 further forward) and Hourihane. Up top is always a guessing game. The 3 will see 2 of Barkhuizen, Mendez-Lang, Dobbin and Springett in the 2 wide places. The other 2 on the bench. Centrally, Usually McGoldrick with Collins in the 9 role. If Collins doesn't play McG will play up top with Knight central in the 3 which will allow White, a Spurs loanee, to partner Hourihane in the 2. You can expect a lot of attacks down the flanks, some quick passing through the middle, lots of crosses and some route 1.
A totally different kettle of fish compared the the reverse fixture back in September. For a start, we're starting to score more, still not conceding many. On the other hand, you've won 4 of your last 6 so won't be pushovers. I don't think we'll lose but a draw wouldn't surprise me.
The context of that game at Adams Park in our Championship season and the vital part it played in the outcome for our respective clubs at the end of that season reflected outrageous fortune and injustice rather than mere swings and roundabouts.
You wax lyrical (and very articulately) about the transformation in playing style and levels of performance since the match at Pride Park and, with the spending power available to you and the change of manager, that is no surprise but our own situation at that time wasn’t great, with half a dozen first team regulars unavailable.
As I’m sure you will be aware from discussion on this website, we once again find ourselves with key players (all three of our recognised central defenders) currently injured. What with those injuries and our leading goalscorer having moved to Bristol City a couple of weeks ago, I’d have to say that, individually, we are currently below the strength that has recently brought so many excellent results but, as several on here have remarked, we are looking stronger as a team than the sum of our parts, arguably for the first time this season.
The game on Saturday will be fiercely contested and our players will leave nothing on the pitch. The result could obviously go either way (!) but, like you, I would not be surprised if it finishes all square. I’ve gone for 2-2 on our Samaritans prediction thread.
Comes back to a very basic point -Unfortnately "outlay of £0" is utter garbage, they didn't sell some highly rated players they already had in order to pay their debts, and they then signed a lot of highly paid players who happened to be out of contract.
Ainsworth has done a wonderful job getting the likes of Curtis who wasn't wanted by rivals in a lower league, convincing young players to sign after loans, and Darius and Alex Samuel out of injury rooms. The Derby players are more on the Vokes style of signing but they won't have had to hard sell playing in front of 30,000 odd on high wages.
If we line up with 5 full backs out of 10 outfielders on Saturday we'll still have a good go.
I’ll do the broken record thing and say that, to the surprise of many who twit me and others about our admiration for NICK FREEMAN, I suggested a couple of times recently that I would start with Curtis rather than Nick.
Tickets selling fast enough earlier this morning for there to be a short online queue before you could reach the actual site, but not the case now, in the early afternoon. It looks to me like the Family Stand will sell out or be very close to selling out by Saturday. There are a fair few left in the Frank Adams at the moment but a lot less than your average league game.
Derby fans can plead poverty and lack of transfer fees all they like. But apart from highly rated youngsters the vast majority of EFL transfers are 'free transfers'
You might not have paid a transfer fee for the likes of Hourihane, Collins, Barkhuizen, Mendez-Laing, McGoldrick etc. But they are all experienced Championship (or some cases PL) players and wouldn't be playing in League 1 unless they were well compensated. There may be some financial restrictions in regards to what wages you can offer, but they are clearly not prohibitive.
Similarly Wycombe may not have paid a transfer fee to sign Vokes, Wing or Mawson, but I imagine all would be on a high wage which most League 1 teams couldn't afford.
The best move Derby have made in all this is bringing Paul Warne on board. He is a serial winner at this level. If Derby do get promoted, I am interested to see what he can do in the Championship with more money behind him than at Rotherham.
Last 19 games, scored 36, conceded 12. Possibly 2 sneaky wins in that were possibly sneaky (Vale away, 1-0 after 86, scored in 87 and 90 was one although we did have more shots and more shots on target) but of the 6 draws we probably should have won 3 or 4 so it evens out.
Have to disagree ST. Outlay = what we spent on transfer fees, apart from the £150K on Forsyth 10 years ago. The current squad cost zero in transfer fees. One week into July we had Davies, Forsyth, Knight, Bird and Sibley. Since then Thompson has moved up from the U21 squad and we've used 3 or 4 from the U18s. The rest were either free agents, free transfers or feeless loans. We have one player on 12K a week (the max we are allowed to pay), 1 on 10K 2 on 8K and the rest are on between 2K and 6K. Apart from Luke McGee, a keeper on loan from FGR, we have no players in the 23 to 29 age range. the rest are "kids" and "wrinklies".
With regard to player sales, since September 2021 up to July 2022, the club was in Administration. The Administrators ran the club. They decided everything, not the club. Morris's fault the club had to go into admin. After that every decision was made by the admins carrying out their legal duty.
As much as I respect a lot of your posts, I don't think you're going to win over some of this forum by suggesting your transfer outlay is zero; you will have spent more on agent fees in just this season than Wycombe have spent on player fees in the last 10+ years. To claim full transparency of your players' salaries is also nonsense.
Paying agents is against the 2 year business plan we submitted to the EFL that they accepted. No transfer, loan or agent's fees may be paid this season or next so.... ABSOLUTELY NO AGENT FEES PAID this season or we'd be in more trouble with the EFL.
Ergo, apart from the £150K we paid for Fozzy in 2012, Davies came on a free, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Tommo all joined the club as kids and have come through the academy. The rest were signed this season with not a single penny in transfer, loan or agent fees as we can't pay them. Those are all facts. Straight up and down. I'm not bothered if the odd one on here isn't won over by facts. That's their problem, not mine.
As above fees (disclosed fees anyway) are very rare in L1 so outlay in fees is no real measure. We're not entirely made up of giveaways like we were a couple of years ago either to be fair. We are also no stranger to raw prospects or old pro's in their late 30s and up, I think we went up a few years ago with Bayo, CMS and Tyson totalling about 115 years between them. Warne and staff (who would also have cost a fee) have clearly assembled well.
Suggesting your administrators did everything with their duty in mind would have been greeted with ridicule at the time and probably still borders on satire now. Sure Derby are doing fine now and the league are actually doing a decent job of saving them from themselves but can't help feeling they could have and still could be looking after the poor sods who they owed money to and the tax man better.
Have you got a source to that 2 year business plan? Or any proof of the zero-fee policy? I struggle to believe you've got two Premier League loanees without any fee paid whatsoever.
Whatever happened in our Championship season is behind us now. Any respectable football fan would not have wanted to see Derby go out of business although they were clearly in the wrong. They have been punished so let’s get on with it.
May the best team win on Saturday and l am looking forward to playing Derby in the play-off final at Wembley.
I can believe that Derby are under strict instruction to not pay transfer fees, agent fees or loan fees, but it would require a superhuman mental effort to actually think they're following those rules.
Your Academy has done a grand job @Raminpeace, we had to close ours to avoid admin but our new Dev team, basically some punts on people released elsewhere has already yielded our record sale.
Btw I suspect no agent fees just means paying the player more so he can pay the agent, no loan fee just means paying higher contribution to wages.
Comments
Apologies @Malone. Misread/misunderstood irony of your comment about the Derby ‘keeper. I realise now that it was your version of the kind of spurious defence a Derby supporter might have spouted.
Absolutely no doubts remaining. We wos robbed.
It does feel like Gareth has again a side which is greater than the sum of its parts, and the players that currently grace the light and dark blue quarters are at least as good as those we remember with a sense of pride and joy.
Promotion in a play off final without fans - Bless Bill Turnbull - followed by a season almost all without fans was hard. Our memories of the season in the Championship are individual and not collective. Nevertheless we do have them and we so very nearly stayed in that division. We also have glorious memories of last year, straight back into the play-offs. I will never forget the two semi-final games against the club that shouldn't be. I remember tasting the full range of emotions across the games, amazement and joy in the first game and tension and then joy in the second. Wembley was its own thing - somewhat like the Wembley game against Southend was its own thing.
We have a club to be proud of, run by people we are proud of. It feels to me that once again we have a team which enjoys football. There are no expectations on us from the outside world - the home win shows as 5/2 on Oddschecker. We know that we will give Derby a good game. I remember the atmosphere from the away game in Peterborough not so long ago. I remember playing Oxford off the park afterwards. This is a Wycombe side which wins 3 - 0 away from home.
So I am looking forward to Saturday. There are many reasons for many people why this game has a sharp edge. I like we will give it our best shot. What more can you ask from a football game?
FWIW, I think he was onside. They say things even themselves out. Swings and roundabouts..... here's one where Jason Knight had a goal ruled out for offside against Huddersfield. He's obviously well onside. Here's to no such contentious decisions on Saturday.
What a splendid post, sums up my own feelings perfectly. It’s good to stand back and look at the bigger picture, makes one thankful for what we’ve got rather than resentful for what we haven’t got.
In response to the poster who waxed lyrical about our form, here's what's changed since the reverse fixture, IMO.
When you visited Pride Park on September 17th we had Liam Rosenior in charge. He did amazingly well on an outlay of £0 to put the squad together. Following that game we were 7th in the table, out of the playoff places on goal difference, played 9, won 4, drawn 2 and lost 3, GF 9, GA 9, GD 0. The problem was we had between 60% and 70% possession in games but much of that possession was the back 4 and the keeper. We were playing, almost exclusively, out from the back and at a snail's pace. IIRC, 4 of the 9 GA were caused by us getting high pressed on the edge of our box, losing possession and then opposition scoring. We also never looked like scoring in away games. Liam, as interim manager was replaced by PW and his team on September 22nd. Since then we've played 19, W11, D 6, L 3, GF 36, GA 12, GD 24. 4th place, 2 points off 3rd with a game in hand, 8 off 2nd with a game in hand. Not lost in 15 League games.
It took a few games for the change to evolve. 3 weeks before the start of the season, we had 5 players. The ones we got in were free agents, free transfers and free loans. No players between the ages of 23 and 29. Short pre season and the corresponding lack of all round fitness. Not a complaint, just the way it was. Warne upped the training intensity. The players are much fitter. He changed the way we play. Introduced variation. It was no longer predominantly playing from the back at a snail's pace. We do still play from the back part of the time but we now play much quicker through the thirds. Players like Cashin, Forsyth (the only current player we paid a fee for, £150K 10 years ago, and Bird spray crossfield balls over 50 and 60 yards. Route 1 is also used. We mix it up. How that happens depends on who's up top. 4231 is the system. Smith at RB is a midfielder. Fozzy at RCB is a left back. Cashin is a CB. Sibley at LB is an AM. They have conceded just 12 in 19 games..... Last 2 games Roberts has played LB as Sibs was injured. Not sure who will be there. The 2? Bird is out for 4 weeks so we'll either play Knight there (prefer him in the 3 further forward) and Hourihane. Up top is always a guessing game. The 3 will see 2 of Barkhuizen, Mendez-Lang, Dobbin and Springett in the 2 wide places. The other 2 on the bench. Centrally, Usually McGoldrick with Collins in the 9 role. If Collins doesn't play McG will play up top with Knight central in the 3 which will allow White, a Spurs loanee, to partner Hourihane in the 2. You can expect a lot of attacks down the flanks, some quick passing through the middle, lots of crosses and some route 1.
A totally different kettle of fish compared the the reverse fixture back in September. For a start, we're starting to score more, still not conceding many. On the other hand, you've won 4 of your last 6 so won't be pushovers. I don't think we'll lose but a draw wouldn't surprise me.
Bit off topic but do you remember going to the Den for Saint & Greavsie when Tony Cascarino's wife had written a poem and read it out on air?
That is an outstandingly bad offside call!
Have you not been to Wycombe much lately ?
Christ don’t remind me of the state of Wycombe town centre. Christ alive it’s got bad. Rats, alcoholics and junk food litter everywhere.
"Christ alive it’s got bad. Rats, alcoholics and junk food litter everywhere."
Are we talking about the town centre or the terrace now?
See also: half the town centres in the UK. A grim country.
The context of that game at Adams Park in our Championship season and the vital part it played in the outcome for our respective clubs at the end of that season reflected outrageous fortune and injustice rather than mere swings and roundabouts.
You wax lyrical (and very articulately) about the transformation in playing style and levels of performance since the match at Pride Park and, with the spending power available to you and the change of manager, that is no surprise but our own situation at that time wasn’t great, with half a dozen first team regulars unavailable.
As I’m sure you will be aware from discussion on this website, we once again find ourselves with key players (all three of our recognised central defenders) currently injured. What with those injuries and our leading goalscorer having moved to Bristol City a couple of weeks ago, I’d have to say that, individually, we are currently below the strength that has recently brought so many excellent results but, as several on here have remarked, we are looking stronger as a team than the sum of our parts, arguably for the first time this season.
The game on Saturday will be fiercely contested and our players will leave nothing on the pitch. The result could obviously go either way (!) but, like you, I would not be surprised if it finishes all square. I’ve gone for 2-2 on our Samaritans prediction thread.
Comes back to a very basic point -Unfortnately "outlay of £0" is utter garbage, they didn't sell some highly rated players they already had in order to pay their debts, and they then signed a lot of highly paid players who happened to be out of contract.
Ainsworth has done a wonderful job getting the likes of Curtis who wasn't wanted by rivals in a lower league, convincing young players to sign after loans, and Darius and Alex Samuel out of injury rooms. The Derby players are more on the Vokes style of signing but they won't have had to hard sell playing in front of 30,000 odd on high wages.
If we line up with 5 full backs out of 10 outfielders on Saturday we'll still have a good go.
I think we might need Scowen and Thompson in the middle for this one. It looks a tough task.
I’ll do the broken record thing and say that, to the surprise of many who twit me and others about our admiration for NICK FREEMAN, I suggested a couple of times recently that I would start with Curtis rather than Nick.
Tickets selling fast enough earlier this morning for there to be a short online queue before you could reach the actual site, but not the case now, in the early afternoon. It looks to me like the Family Stand will sell out or be very close to selling out by Saturday. There are a fair few left in the Frank Adams at the moment but a lot less than your average league game.
Derby fans can plead poverty and lack of transfer fees all they like. But apart from highly rated youngsters the vast majority of EFL transfers are 'free transfers'
You might not have paid a transfer fee for the likes of Hourihane, Collins, Barkhuizen, Mendez-Laing, McGoldrick etc. But they are all experienced Championship (or some cases PL) players and wouldn't be playing in League 1 unless they were well compensated. There may be some financial restrictions in regards to what wages you can offer, but they are clearly not prohibitive.
Similarly Wycombe may not have paid a transfer fee to sign Vokes, Wing or Mawson, but I imagine all would be on a high wage which most League 1 teams couldn't afford.
The best move Derby have made in all this is bringing Paul Warne on board. He is a serial winner at this level. If Derby do get promoted, I am interested to see what he can do in the Championship with more money behind him than at Rotherham.
@Raminpeace - are you every bit as dominant as the form suggests, or have you been sneaking some of the wins in more even contests?
Last 19 games, scored 36, conceded 12. Possibly 2 sneaky wins in that were possibly sneaky (Vale away, 1-0 after 86, scored in 87 and 90 was one although we did have more shots and more shots on target) but of the 6 draws we probably should have won 3 or 4 so it evens out.
Have to disagree ST. Outlay = what we spent on transfer fees, apart from the £150K on Forsyth 10 years ago. The current squad cost zero in transfer fees. One week into July we had Davies, Forsyth, Knight, Bird and Sibley. Since then Thompson has moved up from the U21 squad and we've used 3 or 4 from the U18s. The rest were either free agents, free transfers or feeless loans. We have one player on 12K a week (the max we are allowed to pay), 1 on 10K 2 on 8K and the rest are on between 2K and 6K. Apart from Luke McGee, a keeper on loan from FGR, we have no players in the 23 to 29 age range. the rest are "kids" and "wrinklies".
With regard to player sales, since September 2021 up to July 2022, the club was in Administration. The Administrators ran the club. They decided everything, not the club. Morris's fault the club had to go into admin. After that every decision was made by the admins carrying out their legal duty.
As much as I respect a lot of your posts, I don't think you're going to win over some of this forum by suggesting your transfer outlay is zero; you will have spent more on agent fees in just this season than Wycombe have spent on player fees in the last 10+ years. To claim full transparency of your players' salaries is also nonsense.
Paying agents is against the 2 year business plan we submitted to the EFL that they accepted. No transfer, loan or agent's fees may be paid this season or next so.... ABSOLUTELY NO AGENT FEES PAID this season or we'd be in more trouble with the EFL.
Ergo, apart from the £150K we paid for Fozzy in 2012, Davies came on a free, Bird, Knight, Sibley, Tommo all joined the club as kids and have come through the academy. The rest were signed this season with not a single penny in transfer, loan or agent fees as we can't pay them. Those are all facts. Straight up and down. I'm not bothered if the odd one on here isn't won over by facts. That's their problem, not mine.
Happens to us all. Over a season they, hopefully even themselves out although not against the side the original decision occurred...
As above fees (disclosed fees anyway) are very rare in L1 so outlay in fees is no real measure. We're not entirely made up of giveaways like we were a couple of years ago either to be fair. We are also no stranger to raw prospects or old pro's in their late 30s and up, I think we went up a few years ago with Bayo, CMS and Tyson totalling about 115 years between them. Warne and staff (who would also have cost a fee) have clearly assembled well.
Suggesting your administrators did everything with their duty in mind would have been greeted with ridicule at the time and probably still borders on satire now. Sure Derby are doing fine now and the league are actually doing a decent job of saving them from themselves but can't help feeling they could have and still could be looking after the poor sods who they owed money to and the tax man better.
Have you got a source to that 2 year business plan? Or any proof of the zero-fee policy? I struggle to believe you've got two Premier League loanees without any fee paid whatsoever.
Whatever happened in our Championship season is behind us now. Any respectable football fan would not have wanted to see Derby go out of business although they were clearly in the wrong. They have been punished so let’s get on with it.
May the best team win on Saturday and l am looking forward to playing Derby in the play-off final at Wembley.
I can believe that Derby are under strict instruction to not pay transfer fees, agent fees or loan fees, but it would require a superhuman mental effort to actually think they're following those rules.
Yeah exactly. You've got to be really naive if you think you're not paying agent fees.
Your Academy has done a grand job @Raminpeace, we had to close ours to avoid admin but our new Dev team, basically some punts on people released elsewhere has already yielded our record sale.
Btw I suspect no agent fees just means paying the player more so he can pay the agent, no loan fee just means paying higher contribution to wages.