No-one knows except the management. For me JJ historically has been head and shoulders above Obita, including last season. On this seasons form then JJ has made loads of mistakes, three at least have led to goals. Obita has also not played well at left back when called upon this season.
Obita is much better in an advanced role, I don't think he does enough defensively and is quite often ball watching.
I'd still play JJ in a back 4 ahead of Obita but Obita would start as a left wing back for me if we play 3 at the back.
The other thing I would add is that the way Ainsworth likes to play our full backs, in both systems, they are constantly overloaded and asked to cover two players more often than not (see Grimmer vs Derby first half this season as a prime example). I think JJ and Grimmer have been magnificent over the years dealing with this overload but perhaps this season it's just too much for JJ.
I also think that we are so bang out of form going forwards that these defensive errors are massively punishing us this season, whereas in the past we'd turn it around and grab a point or still go on for all three.
As someone said earlier, we've played all 3 relegated teams plus 5 of last years top 8. We will start to pick up soon, hopefully starting against Plymouth this weekend.
If McCleary, Hanlan and Scowen were back we'd be a completely different prospect.
Over the last few seasons, my perception is that we have created a significant amount of chances throughout the game. Typically we are doing ok in the first half but that we offer loads in the 2nd but most importantly finish games reasonably strongly, particularly if we are losing/drawing. Again, not checked facts but it feels like we have scored a lot of goals in the last 15 minutes over last two seasons.
This season though we seem to be pretty good in first 20ish minutes - 6 goals (7, 16, 14, 21, 15 & 10).
The next five goals were scored in the 30, 37, 39, 50 & 51, which isn't too bad.
The remaining 2 goals were both against Barnsley - 72 & 83.
So in 10 league matches, we have managed to score only two goals in the last 40 minutes, both were in one match or only 4 goals in the 2nd half of those 10 games.
Having been to most of these matches, what I am seeing is that we really have offered very little threat in most second halves. Bolton, Accrington, Derby and Sheff Weds we really did next to nothing and were defending for our lives most of the time.
This is not what we are used to seeing and is probably more reflective of our strikers being out injured/McCleary suspended plus the poor distribution of Dickinson and Stryjek.
We just do not look like scoring or even attacking in the 2nd half of matches currently, and I think this worries me more than if we still had the same results but at least looked a threat. The sooner our injured/suspended strikers return the better. Ainsworth has always gone on the offensive when our backs are to the wall but he just doesn't have the firepower to do that at the minute.
I’m sorry Commoner, but I can’t agree with your assessment of Jacobson. Last year he was skinned alive numerous times for pace, in particular Fleetwood and MK Dons away. At Fleetwood, the back four was shuffled and he was taken out of the firing line. He was horribly exposed in the play off semi final at MK Dons. For all his attributes, and there have been many, I don’t think another year was right for him or us. His shortcomings have been exposed again this season, and there is no way he should be starting ahead of Obita. Much as I admire loyalty to players, I think GA got this wrong.
Everyone keeps saying if we have to strengthen they would look at the Right back position, I've thought all season that left back is more important. JJ, though still clearly good on his day, is not having so many of those days now, and I just don't see Obita as a defender, doesn't strike me as wanting to do it, he wants to be a winger !
I agree our threat has waned badly as games have gone on, but we have still created a lot overall, so it's not a loss of form. Seems to be a mentality issue. I agree it's very unlike us.
This is spot on for me. If I have to pick a defensive platoon between Grimmer/Macca or JJ/Obita right now, I am going with the former for sure. Obita is absolute class going forward, but weaker defensively.
Someone referred yesterday to how well NICK FREEMAN (“dross” to @WestLondonWanderer) was playing at right back at the start of last season before the Lincoln lunge did horrible damage to his ACL.
I was too tired to comment last night but it is important to say that Nick was playing as a right wingback. I’d be very happy to see him in that position now. But, above all else, I yearn to see a return to the passing football that we know our players are capable of.
Having said that, I suppose there is a tendency, when confidence levels are low, for players to treat the ball as a hot potato 🥔.
Rather a strange analogy but I think I’ve heard it used in this context.
I agree @micra , I also yearn for a return to passing football and I also believe we have the players to do it. Just think back to the away game at Barnsley earlier this season, where we actually scored three brilliant goals.
We now seem to go for an early goal and then just fall back thinking we can defend it for the rest of the game. Maybe the MK Dons away play-off game has inadvertently done us no favours, as that seems to be the blueprint for how we play this season. However, as @ReturnToSenda stated, we haven’t got that same defensive unit this time around.
Especially once Scowen is back, I would like to see Freeman tried out in the 10 role. He is one of our best passers, and I think he could pull the strings in the middle with Mehmeti and McLeary either side of Vokes. Freeman never treats the ball like anything other than a dear romantic interest.
Some have noted that Freeman has not exactly pulled up trees, but he has generally done very well in his cameos, and of his two starts, one was the red card game where we were on the back foot for 80 minutes or so. Players often need a run in the side, and Wing has had exactly that, while Freeman has not. If we are going to play a different style, I think we need a 10 who can really pick a great pass.
Listening to the game on Saturday it sounded like McCarthy was man marking Bannan. I think Gaz confirmed this in his post match interview.
I’m not sure of any stats but to me it seems we are giving away a huge amount of goals by being caught on the break, something that was happening last season too.
Having watched the highlights back a few times there appears to be a complete lack of sense in McCarthy being in the box for the free kick and Mehmeti floating aimlessly about halfway inside the Wednesday half. As the ball broke Bannan pretty much had a clear run at goal with Horgan tracking the wrong man back and JJ covering a lot of ground back trying to get with Bannan.
surely its got to be better for Jmac to stay out of the box keeping an eye on Bannan and Mehmeti poaching in the box.
Also agree that Scowen is hugely missed but Thompson increasingly, in my opinion. He is our best man marker for one thing and so strong at keeping possession. With those two playing in front of that back 4 we could quite easily be 6 games unbeaten
Oh no it doesn’t ! Oh yes it does. I missed the sneaky edit !
I take it Grimmer and Obita are fullbacks. When Forino was there in the original 12, I assumed they were flying wingbacks. It’ll come as no surprise that, if wingbacks, I’d want NICK FREEMAN on the right, dross though he may be.
Next season will definitely be our transitional period. I feel like if Ainsworth gets offered something else, he may see it best that someone else oversees it.
Great digging, @ReturnToSenda - add in the fact Mehmeti will almost certainly be gone, and we are potentially looking at quite a rebuild, even if only 5 or 6 leave.
Comments
Pete, the enforcer, just to his right.
Sorry if this has been asked & answered but why did JJ start over Obita??
I’d imagine Ainsworth made that decision
No-one knows except the management. For me JJ historically has been head and shoulders above Obita, including last season. On this seasons form then JJ has made loads of mistakes, three at least have led to goals. Obita has also not played well at left back when called upon this season.
Obita is much better in an advanced role, I don't think he does enough defensively and is quite often ball watching.
I'd still play JJ in a back 4 ahead of Obita but Obita would start as a left wing back for me if we play 3 at the back.
The other thing I would add is that the way Ainsworth likes to play our full backs, in both systems, they are constantly overloaded and asked to cover two players more often than not (see Grimmer vs Derby first half this season as a prime example). I think JJ and Grimmer have been magnificent over the years dealing with this overload but perhaps this season it's just too much for JJ.
I also think that we are so bang out of form going forwards that these defensive errors are massively punishing us this season, whereas in the past we'd turn it around and grab a point or still go on for all three.
As someone said earlier, we've played all 3 relegated teams plus 5 of last years top 8. We will start to pick up soon, hopefully starting against Plymouth this weekend.
If McCleary, Hanlan and Scowen were back we'd be a completely different prospect.
We're not bang out form going forward - we've created and scored plenty - we've been let down by our utterly colander-like defending.
Over the last few seasons, my perception is that we have created a significant amount of chances throughout the game. Typically we are doing ok in the first half but that we offer loads in the 2nd but most importantly finish games reasonably strongly, particularly if we are losing/drawing. Again, not checked facts but it feels like we have scored a lot of goals in the last 15 minutes over last two seasons.
This season though we seem to be pretty good in first 20ish minutes - 6 goals (7, 16, 14, 21, 15 & 10).
The next five goals were scored in the 30, 37, 39, 50 & 51, which isn't too bad.
The remaining 2 goals were both against Barnsley - 72 & 83.
So in 10 league matches, we have managed to score only two goals in the last 40 minutes, both were in one match or only 4 goals in the 2nd half of those 10 games.
Having been to most of these matches, what I am seeing is that we really have offered very little threat in most second halves. Bolton, Accrington, Derby and Sheff Weds we really did next to nothing and were defending for our lives most of the time.
This is not what we are used to seeing and is probably more reflective of our strikers being out injured/McCleary suspended plus the poor distribution of Dickinson and Stryjek.
We just do not look like scoring or even attacking in the 2nd half of matches currently, and I think this worries me more than if we still had the same results but at least looked a threat. The sooner our injured/suspended strikers return the better. Ainsworth has always gone on the offensive when our backs are to the wall but he just doesn't have the firepower to do that at the minute.
I’m sorry Commoner, but I can’t agree with your assessment of Jacobson. Last year he was skinned alive numerous times for pace, in particular Fleetwood and MK Dons away. At Fleetwood, the back four was shuffled and he was taken out of the firing line. He was horribly exposed in the play off semi final at MK Dons. For all his attributes, and there have been many, I don’t think another year was right for him or us. His shortcomings have been exposed again this season, and there is no way he should be starting ahead of Obita. Much as I admire loyalty to players, I think GA got this wrong.
Everyone keeps saying if we have to strengthen they would look at the Right back position, I've thought all season that left back is more important. JJ, though still clearly good on his day, is not having so many of those days now, and I just don't see Obita as a defender, doesn't strike me as wanting to do it, he wants to be a winger !
I agree our threat has waned badly as games have gone on, but we have still created a lot overall, so it's not a loss of form. Seems to be a mentality issue. I agree it's very unlike us.
As Dom was many people’s Man of the Match, I thought this was going to be very appropriate. Unfortunately, U and S didn’t follow !
This is spot on for me. If I have to pick a defensive platoon between Grimmer/Macca or JJ/Obita right now, I am going with the former for sure. Obita is absolute class going forward, but weaker defensively.
Someone referred yesterday to how well NICK FREEMAN (“dross” to @WestLondonWanderer) was playing at right back at the start of last season before the Lincoln lunge did horrible damage to his ACL.
I was too tired to comment last night but it is important to say that Nick was playing as a right wingback. I’d be very happy to see him in that position now. But, above all else, I yearn to see a return to the passing football that we know our players are capable of.
Having said that, I suppose there is a tendency, when confidence levels are low, for players to treat the ball as a hot potato 🥔.
Rather a strange analogy but I think I’ve heard it used in this context.
I agree @micra , I also yearn for a return to passing football and I also believe we have the players to do it. Just think back to the away game at Barnsley earlier this season, where we actually scored three brilliant goals.
We now seem to go for an early goal and then just fall back thinking we can defend it for the rest of the game. Maybe the MK Dons away play-off game has inadvertently done us no favours, as that seems to be the blueprint for how we play this season. However, as @ReturnToSenda stated, we haven’t got that same defensive unit this time around.
Especially once Scowen is back, I would like to see Freeman tried out in the 10 role. He is one of our best passers, and I think he could pull the strings in the middle with Mehmeti and McLeary either side of Vokes. Freeman never treats the ball like anything other than a dear romantic interest.
Some have noted that Freeman has not exactly pulled up trees, but he has generally done very well in his cameos, and of his two starts, one was the red card game where we were on the back foot for 80 minutes or so. Players often need a run in the side, and Wing has had exactly that, while Freeman has not. If we are going to play a different style, I think we need a 10 who can really pick a great pass.
I do really like JJ and his amazing set piece qualities but I think you are spot on @MBS
Close but no cigar
Listening to the game on Saturday it sounded like McCarthy was man marking Bannan. I think Gaz confirmed this in his post match interview.
I’m not sure of any stats but to me it seems we are giving away a huge amount of goals by being caught on the break, something that was happening last season too.
Having watched the highlights back a few times there appears to be a complete lack of sense in McCarthy being in the box for the free kick and Mehmeti floating aimlessly about halfway inside the Wednesday half. As the ball broke Bannan pretty much had a clear run at goal with Horgan tracking the wrong man back and JJ covering a lot of ground back trying to get with Bannan.
surely its got to be better for Jmac to stay out of the box keeping an eye on Bannan and Mehmeti poaching in the box.
Also agree that Scowen is hugely missed but Thompson increasingly, in my opinion. He is our best man marker for one thing and so strong at keeping possession. With those two playing in front of that back 4 we could quite easily be 6 games unbeaten
Forget how we play/playing style (Champ Man rules). With every player fit in our squad, this lineup looks so good
Max
Taff Mawson
Grimmer Obita
Scowen
Gape Thompson
Mehmeti McCleary
Vokes
It does. Slight flaw in that it has 12 players but otherwise I like it! And we can always drop one of Scowen or Thompson or Gape
Well spotted @Manboobs - not even Champ Man allows 12 players!
I meant to leave Forino out tbh. And was considering Hanlan for McCleary or a top 2 of Vokes and McCleary which has worked well at times.
Oh no it doesn’t ! Oh yes it does. I missed the sneaky edit !
I take it Grimmer and Obita are fullbacks. When Forino was there in the original 12, I assumed they were flying wingbacks. It’ll come as no surprise that, if wingbacks, I’d want NICK FREEMAN on the right, dross though he may be.
Max; Grimmer, Mawson, Taf, Obita; Thompson, Scowen; GMac, Horgan, Mehmessi; Vokes
Chances of all of them being fit at the same time at any point during the season... About 0.1%?
3 scufflers in the middle leaves a hell of a lot of work to do for the two attacking mids though.
Dare say we'd we'd a hell of a lot more solid though.
Wowee, just checked and it looks like we have 20 players (15 first team regulars) out of contract next summer...
Just read an advert from The Athletic (which I don't subscribe to) - Man City have had 30 fewer injuries than Liverpool in the last 4 years.
Speaks volumes.
Next season will definitely be our transitional period. I feel like if Ainsworth gets offered something else, he may see it best that someone else oversees it.
Out of interest, who are the 15?
I'll have to have a read of that, but Liverpool did play every possible game last season bar FA Cup replays.
I had to fill in a few gaps as Transfermarkt isn't fully up-to-date, but I think it's these 15:
Grimmer, McCarthy, Mawson, Taf, JJ, Obita
Scowen, Gape, Thompson, Freeman, Wheeler
McCleary, Horgan, Kaikai
Vokes
(+ Dickinson, Wakely, Leathers, De Barr, Al-Hamadi)
Great digging, @ReturnToSenda - add in the fact Mehmeti will almost certainly be gone, and we are potentially looking at quite a rebuild, even if only 5 or 6 leave.
Realistically we will do well to hold onto:
Taff, Mawson, Scowen, Vokes
As of today we would release:
Horgan, Kaikai, JJ, Wheeler, McCleary, Thompson (all development squad names unless they prove their worth)
Keep:
Gape, McCarthy, Grimmer, Obita
Long way to go mind