As a professor of optimism I shall endeavour to lay before you the reasons why I think we are indeed currently playing as a team worthy of a top six berth. Sadly, though, the ethics committee of our optimists' association would probably get me struck off. But, I am at liberty to remain full of hope for the rest of the season. We're a good team in a division full of good teams and the difference between a win, loss or draw is so often marginal. It'll all click and fall into place soon. I'm optimistic that my ten pounds invested into the club this afternoon will be spent wisely.
I have a friend who says that size wise we are a League 1.5 club. I do think that based on support, etc. that sounds about right. We are still overacheiving for size but underachieving for squad quality, which was only made possible by the prior overacheiving. Figure that out...
No pace up top is killing us. Every team needs the threat of a striker or winger able to run in behind the defence, or an attacking midfielder to run from deep and get beyond the CF. Without McCleary or Hanlan (anyone know what happened to Mellor?) we’re really lacking that option. If Kaikai is fit to play (presumably he is as he’s on the bench) I’d get him into the 11 and tell him his job is to play on the shoulder of the last defender.
We don’t have a proper threat on the break without it, so teams are emboldened to step up high and press us back, take risks in possession and so on because they know we can’t counter.
Even when we do win the ball back deep inside our own half, there is no out ball to get us up the pitch. The best hope is that Vokes heads it backwards to Mehmeti, but that still leaves us starting an attack from a deep position.
As a result we’re constantly penned in and seem to be doing everything about 20 yards deeper than we should be.
That impacts everything across the whole team. We’re constantly on the back foot and every player looks worse for it. Just imagine how many Mehmeti would be banging in if we were actually on the front foot in games!!
Someone posted this above but if Hanlan is out long-term we need to look at bringing in a forward.
No shame in being beaten by a better team. We’ll finish the season higher than we are, but I don’t think we’ll be troubling the playoffs unless something dramatic changes.
I don’t think you can underestimate how much the loss to the club is of the Beast. We have been consistently punching above our weight but less so now without Bayo. He’s an inspirational character for both players and fans & makes both believe anything is possible.
Also, very little has been mentioned about the loss of Anthony Stewart. I still think his departure is far more significant than people have accounted for. GA is right about the effect the injuries have had but it goes a lot deeper than that & may take a season of mid-table mediocrity to resolve before we start moving forward again. That may involve pawning the crown jewels to bring in some better players.
Someone on here said that they had seen Mellor wearing an orthopaedic boot shortly after he got injured, which doesn’t sound great.
I think a fair few would agree that we are missing a focal point forward other than Vokes, as AAH is not yet the finished article. A while back GA said that everyone other than Thompson was “in contention” but surely that can’t be true, I can’t see us using Forino as a makeshift forward if we could have Hanlan on the bench to come on and mix things up.
Agree massively on Bayo, that was a significant departure character wise, as well as even last year near the end, he'd give even the best teams something different to worry about for 10-15mins.
But I don't quite buy the Stewart part in the same way. Maybe so for the first month, but we've brought Mawson in, who is a better player. Maybe we've lost the well oiled partnership, and Mawson and Taf needs more time to build similar, but those 2 are surely the best centre backs for pure quality we've had in the league days?
Remember Barnsley away. What a brilliant show that was from the mighty Wycombe. This team can do it and we just need the spark from somewhere. Scowen back, McCleary back, Hanlan back, Thompson back and Wheeler back for his versatility and we will start to push on.
Maybe we do need to go into the market in Jan to strengthen but for now we have what we have.
On another point, I don’t think AAH, Mellor or Young are up to Div 1 level as yet. All three have potential but in my opinion, not ready yet. I feel Pattenden could be the one to break through this season.
Absolutely spot on. If we knew Hanlan was out for a fair while it was an error not to get a loan forward in with a bit of pace.
JJ playing ahead of Obita today was a strange decision and he had a nightmare game. Sadly he’s just not a first choice left back at this level any longer, and probably hasn’t been for a year or two. Left of a 3 really played to his strengths at that time, but if Obita is for he has to play at left back. Also, Grimmer has done pretty well this season but McCarthy is a better player and needs to start at right back.
I often think back to the Cambridge away game last season which was the nadir of our switch to a more ball playing team. I’d like to see us start as close to that team as possible -4231, Stryjek, McCarthy, Mawson, Taf, Obita, Scowen, Wing, Horgan, McCleary, Mehmeti, Vokes. I actually agree that Wing has been very ordinary this season but the bottom line is he has played a different position (10 as opposed to central midfield) this season and doesn’t look suited to it. Horgan is a better player there for the team.
Where has that switch in playing style gone? We need to get back to that game plan. We have too many good players to be close to going down, but this start does mean play offs are looking a steep ask, so I’d love to see us use this season to develop and progress that change, rather than continue with the tired ultra direct tactics from today that do not get the best out of the talent we have.
It is curious how we evidently can employ a more possession-based approach - Ainsworth is clearly open to it - but have never really sustained it for a spell longer than about 10 games (e.g. at the end of the Champ season)?
Also, RB is a problem position whoever plays: neither of them can cross with any remote level of consistency. That's one of the most basic requirements for a modern full-back, for goodness sake.
Shef Wed, Derby, Portmouth, Ipswich etc are big compared to us by any kind of measurement. It is miraculous that we have been competing with such teams. Sadly cream eventually rises to the top (in the case of football the clubs with the biggest budgets).
Grimmer was absolutely rubbish today. If we were serious about promotion we’d be offloading Kai Kai, Grimmer, Wheeler and co and replacing with genuine quality.
Evidently we weren’t serious about promotion.
We’ve got enough quality to challenge playoffs if the players start to get back to their best. Gape, Scowen, Mawson, Tafa, Mehmeti, Vokes, Stryjek and McCleary are all very good. Wing needs to be brought back into the middle two. Drop this fluid nonsense McCarthy was in no man’s land the whole game. Bring back the rigidity of the successful Wycombe teams. We aren’t Man City.
@Quarterman 100% spot on, Sir. I was banging on about this last week. I know Josh and Gmac haven’t been available recently, but all 11 of those players were in the 18 at Fleetwood yet GA/Dobbo consciously chose not to play that way.
It’s possible that they felt Vokes wasn’t ready for 90 mins that day and since then we have been without Gmac or Josh or both - but if that side is available any time soon it should be our ‘go to’ starting 11. This was the approach that finished last season so strongly, after the back 3 had demonstrably failed during that ‘justoveramonthus horribilis’ of 7 games that saw us lose 4 and draw 3. We successfully switched to a back 4 for the defeat of Cambridge in March and followed it through to the end of the season. Just can’t understand it if we don’t go back to that as soon as player availability allows.
It seems there are so many factors dovetailing into a perfect poo storm, to put it in family friendly terms. I actually think will go on a tear at some point, possibly twice, but it is going to be tough to make the playoffs.
I don't think there was a lack of ambition this summer - most of us would have called this our potential best ever starting XI (pending actually getting them all healthy!) if we had known Mawson was on the way. A little thin in depth, but with a starting eleven of Max, Grims, Taff, Alfie, Obita, Scowen, Gape, Horgan, Mehmeti, GMac and Vokes, we still have backups of the likes of Macca, JJ, Curtis, Hanlan, Wing, Kaikai, Freeman, Wheeler and Forino. I would have taken that a thousand times over at the start of the season!
The comments above about Bayo being a big miss are spot on, and you can't just "open another can of Bayo" - no other player out there is remotely like him. I agree regarding Stewart too. Having seen Alfie and Taffs together, I can't help but think either of them would be better with Stewart, though they are both immense as individuals. He brings an athleticism that balances the tower-like imperiousness of either of the others very well. Beyond the departing talent, several of us have mentioned the leadership loss of Bayo, Stewart and Blooms over the past year.
I feel as though it is just a lot of little things that are off, all working together to throw us off our stride just enough. The games (Bolton aside) are all close, and it does not take Tolkien-like imagination to see these matches starting to go the other way. It's just the injuries, the sub issues, the tactics, and every other little issue are like a drip-drip-drip effect on our confidence.
It would not surprise me if it gets worse before it gets better, but we have too much talent not to have a couple of great runs, especially with how strong we can be at AP. Plymouth loom large, as we are always in their heads, but are also in our own currently. It may be a case of whose head we get out of first! I hope we can win it for Bill, for ourselves, and for hope that the season can be salvaged.
Sadly we have a “proud” tradition of at least a percentage of our fanbase abusing pretty much any ex-player who dares to leave our club, unless they were a huge fan favourite.
Even if they were released by us, and they simply had the shameful temerity to find gainful employment elsewhere (not that Stockdale himself was released).
On the commentary though, Phil said Stockdale got a decent reception initially, but got some stick at the end for timewasting (no hypocrisy there then).
Took three neutrals to the game today and was interested to see their non-Gasroom effected opinions:
1. We look like a team destined for mid table.
2. We have a severe lack of pace in attack, and defence.
3. Jacobson had an absolute howler.
4. We seem to lack strength or much "fight".
Much of this could be partially solved by players coming back in (Hanlan, Scowen) but I don't think they were far wrong on any point and do think we are heading for a season where the best we can expect is 10th. I don't mind that, but I am certain that the loud groups behind the goal / on Twitter will not be as forgiving.
One last point - yes, they have a bigger budget - but Sheffield Wednesday finished only two places above us last season and, like us, missed out in the play offs. They have significantly strengthened in all areas of the pitch, whereas we have largely stuck with the same team. As the season wears on I think we will regret our lack of summer activity more and more.
Honestly, I can't stress enough how much of miss I think Hanlan is. He was signed for a fee, as an "option". Right now, we have no options.
The thing that concerns me the most is, we don't look like "Wycombe". If we are not playing to what we are good at, and we certainly aren't playing attractive football....what is our identity now? Something is fundamentally wrong.
I’d say we’ve had a pretty good record under GA of curdling that process less miraculous and more bloody mindedness . That’s why we are not universally popular but we need to be on form and confident in the club ethos to do it, yesterday we were neither.
That said we have players in the squad that can trouble anyone in the league and a manager who has a proven track record of ending poor runs.
Hand on heart I can’t see us in the promotion race at the moment but I know anyone who tries to end mid table usually ends at the wrong end
No one will disagree. He’s not near the squad. I’ve not even seen him warming up before the games which is an early indicator someone is close. So let’s just guess and say it will be a month before he’s up to speed. Our whole summer transfer window was based upon optimism. Hanlan will be back. Bishop will be soon. JJ can maintain his historical standards. Horgan will be the player he ended last season and not the player of the previous 18 months. So here we are.
First time I've seen us this season yesterday and I agree with so much that's here already. @Brownie's post above is particularly excellent.
I'd add that it was pretty unforgivable yesterday how the moment we equalised we slowed the game down again and just handed the initiative back to Sheff Weds. Phil mentioned this himself on his commentary. We looked brilliant in that 10 minute spell between their goal and ours and consistently fed Mehmeti for the only time all game. It smacks of negativity to choose to bring the tempo down and ultimately allow Sheffield Weds to regroup and resettle.
I think I'm right in saying that our results away at top six teams are pretty poor, on the whole, over the last couple of seasons in L1. If we truly believe we're good enough for promotion we have to exert ourselves better in these matches, and not sit back and pray.
Comments
So what's everyone's problem then, we're actually exceeding 19th position!!
but we are going for autos ! GA excuses are now so boring, like his subs , we know what he is going to do/say
As a professor of optimism I shall endeavour to lay before you the reasons why I think we are indeed currently playing as a team worthy of a top six berth. Sadly, though, the ethics committee of our optimists' association would probably get me struck off. But, I am at liberty to remain full of hope for the rest of the season. We're a good team in a division full of good teams and the difference between a win, loss or draw is so often marginal. It'll all click and fall into place soon. I'm optimistic that my ten pounds invested into the club this afternoon will be spent wisely.
I have a friend who says that size wise we are a League 1.5 club. I do think that based on support, etc. that sounds about right. We are still overacheiving for size but underachieving for squad quality, which was only made possible by the prior overacheiving. Figure that out...
We did well to stay in that game right until the end, well done lads.
great equaliser and then although we had little of the ball, we hung in.
subs made no difference and that may be why Gaz delays these. Where are our ‘game changers’ on the bench?
We need McLeary and Scowen back.
and again Vokes is largely marked out of it by the two big Centre Backs.
This is the key part - we didn't have much on the bench to change things.
Al Hamadi is very much learning the ropes, and Freeman is anything but an impact player.
No pace up top is killing us. Every team needs the threat of a striker or winger able to run in behind the defence, or an attacking midfielder to run from deep and get beyond the CF. Without McCleary or Hanlan (anyone know what happened to Mellor?) we’re really lacking that option. If Kaikai is fit to play (presumably he is as he’s on the bench) I’d get him into the 11 and tell him his job is to play on the shoulder of the last defender.
We don’t have a proper threat on the break without it, so teams are emboldened to step up high and press us back, take risks in possession and so on because they know we can’t counter.
Even when we do win the ball back deep inside our own half, there is no out ball to get us up the pitch. The best hope is that Vokes heads it backwards to Mehmeti, but that still leaves us starting an attack from a deep position.
As a result we’re constantly penned in and seem to be doing everything about 20 yards deeper than we should be.
That impacts everything across the whole team. We’re constantly on the back foot and every player looks worse for it. Just imagine how many Mehmeti would be banging in if we were actually on the front foot in games!!
Someone posted this above but if Hanlan is out long-term we need to look at bringing in a forward.
No shame in being beaten by a better team. We’ll finish the season higher than we are, but I don’t think we’ll be troubling the playoffs unless something dramatic changes.
I don’t think you can underestimate how much the loss to the club is of the Beast. We have been consistently punching above our weight but less so now without Bayo. He’s an inspirational character for both players and fans & makes both believe anything is possible.
Also, very little has been mentioned about the loss of Anthony Stewart. I still think his departure is far more significant than people have accounted for. GA is right about the effect the injuries have had but it goes a lot deeper than that & may take a season of mid-table mediocrity to resolve before we start moving forward again. That may involve pawning the crown jewels to bring in some better players.
Sorry to sound so negative... but with Taff, Mawson, Scowen, Vokes and Mehmeti in our squad... we should be doing better than this !!
Tactics are a big issue I think
Someone on here said that they had seen Mellor wearing an orthopaedic boot shortly after he got injured, which doesn’t sound great.
I think a fair few would agree that we are missing a focal point forward other than Vokes, as AAH is not yet the finished article. A while back GA said that everyone other than Thompson was “in contention” but surely that can’t be true, I can’t see us using Forino as a makeshift forward if we could have Hanlan on the bench to come on and mix things up.
Agree massively on Bayo, that was a significant departure character wise, as well as even last year near the end, he'd give even the best teams something different to worry about for 10-15mins.
But I don't quite buy the Stewart part in the same way. Maybe so for the first month, but we've brought Mawson in, who is a better player. Maybe we've lost the well oiled partnership, and Mawson and Taf needs more time to build similar, but those 2 are surely the best centre backs for pure quality we've had in the league days?
Remember Barnsley away. What a brilliant show that was from the mighty Wycombe. This team can do it and we just need the spark from somewhere. Scowen back, McCleary back, Hanlan back, Thompson back and Wheeler back for his versatility and we will start to push on.
Maybe we do need to go into the market in Jan to strengthen but for now we have what we have.
On another point, I don’t think AAH, Mellor or Young are up to Div 1 level as yet. All three have potential but in my opinion, not ready yet. I feel Pattenden could be the one to break through this season.
I thought today also showed how much of a loss Stockdale was in the summer, his distribution was excellent.
Absolutely spot on. If we knew Hanlan was out for a fair while it was an error not to get a loan forward in with a bit of pace.
JJ playing ahead of Obita today was a strange decision and he had a nightmare game. Sadly he’s just not a first choice left back at this level any longer, and probably hasn’t been for a year or two. Left of a 3 really played to his strengths at that time, but if Obita is for he has to play at left back. Also, Grimmer has done pretty well this season but McCarthy is a better player and needs to start at right back.
I often think back to the Cambridge away game last season which was the nadir of our switch to a more ball playing team. I’d like to see us start as close to that team as possible -4231, Stryjek, McCarthy, Mawson, Taf, Obita, Scowen, Wing, Horgan, McCleary, Mehmeti, Vokes. I actually agree that Wing has been very ordinary this season but the bottom line is he has played a different position (10 as opposed to central midfield) this season and doesn’t look suited to it. Horgan is a better player there for the team.
Where has that switch in playing style gone? We need to get back to that game plan. We have too many good players to be close to going down, but this start does mean play offs are looking a steep ask, so I’d love to see us use this season to develop and progress that change, rather than continue with the tired ultra direct tactics from today that do not get the best out of the talent we have.
It is curious how we evidently can employ a more possession-based approach - Ainsworth is clearly open to it - but have never really sustained it for a spell longer than about 10 games (e.g. at the end of the Champ season)?
Also, RB is a problem position whoever plays: neither of them can cross with any remote level of consistency. That's one of the most basic requirements for a modern full-back, for goodness sake.
Shef Wed, Derby, Portmouth, Ipswich etc are big compared to us by any kind of measurement. It is miraculous that we have been competing with such teams. Sadly cream eventually rises to the top (in the case of football the clubs with the biggest budgets).
Grimmer was absolutely rubbish today. If we were serious about promotion we’d be offloading Kai Kai, Grimmer, Wheeler and co and replacing with genuine quality.
Evidently we weren’t serious about promotion.
We’ve got enough quality to challenge playoffs if the players start to get back to their best. Gape, Scowen, Mawson, Tafa, Mehmeti, Vokes, Stryjek and McCleary are all very good. Wing needs to be brought back into the middle two. Drop this fluid nonsense McCarthy was in no man’s land the whole game. Bring back the rigidity of the successful Wycombe teams. We aren’t Man City.
Very depressed hearing some of our own abusing Stocko today
Random comment. If you fail to clear the first player when taking a corner you should be fined.
If you do it twice…
@Quarterman 100% spot on, Sir. I was banging on about this last week. I know Josh and Gmac haven’t been available recently, but all 11 of those players were in the 18 at Fleetwood yet GA/Dobbo consciously chose not to play that way.
It’s possible that they felt Vokes wasn’t ready for 90 mins that day and since then we have been without Gmac or Josh or both - but if that side is available any time soon it should be our ‘go to’ starting 11. This was the approach that finished last season so strongly, after the back 3 had demonstrably failed during that ‘justoveramonthus horribilis’ of 7 games that saw us lose 4 and draw 3. We successfully switched to a back 4 for the defeat of Cambridge in March and followed it through to the end of the season. Just can’t understand it if we don’t go back to that as soon as player availability allows.
It seems there are so many factors dovetailing into a perfect poo storm, to put it in family friendly terms. I actually think will go on a tear at some point, possibly twice, but it is going to be tough to make the playoffs.
I don't think there was a lack of ambition this summer - most of us would have called this our potential best ever starting XI (pending actually getting them all healthy!) if we had known Mawson was on the way. A little thin in depth, but with a starting eleven of Max, Grims, Taff, Alfie, Obita, Scowen, Gape, Horgan, Mehmeti, GMac and Vokes, we still have backups of the likes of Macca, JJ, Curtis, Hanlan, Wing, Kaikai, Freeman, Wheeler and Forino. I would have taken that a thousand times over at the start of the season!
The comments above about Bayo being a big miss are spot on, and you can't just "open another can of Bayo" - no other player out there is remotely like him. I agree regarding Stewart too. Having seen Alfie and Taffs together, I can't help but think either of them would be better with Stewart, though they are both immense as individuals. He brings an athleticism that balances the tower-like imperiousness of either of the others very well. Beyond the departing talent, several of us have mentioned the leadership loss of Bayo, Stewart and Blooms over the past year.
I feel as though it is just a lot of little things that are off, all working together to throw us off our stride just enough. The games (Bolton aside) are all close, and it does not take Tolkien-like imagination to see these matches starting to go the other way. It's just the injuries, the sub issues, the tactics, and every other little issue are like a drip-drip-drip effect on our confidence.
It would not surprise me if it gets worse before it gets better, but we have too much talent not to have a couple of great runs, especially with how strong we can be at AP. Plymouth loom large, as we are always in their heads, but are also in our own currently. It may be a case of whose head we get out of first! I hope we can win it for Bill, for ourselves, and for hope that the season can be salvaged.
Sadly we have a “proud” tradition of at least a percentage of our fanbase abusing pretty much any ex-player who dares to leave our club, unless they were a huge fan favourite.
Even if they were released by us, and they simply had the shameful temerity to find gainful employment elsewhere (not that Stockdale himself was released).
On the commentary though, Phil said Stockdale got a decent reception initially, but got some stick at the end for timewasting (no hypocrisy there then).
Took three neutrals to the game today and was interested to see their non-Gasroom effected opinions:
1. We look like a team destined for mid table.
2. We have a severe lack of pace in attack, and defence.
3. Jacobson had an absolute howler.
4. We seem to lack strength or much "fight".
Much of this could be partially solved by players coming back in (Hanlan, Scowen) but I don't think they were far wrong on any point and do think we are heading for a season where the best we can expect is 10th. I don't mind that, but I am certain that the loud groups behind the goal / on Twitter will not be as forgiving.
One last point - yes, they have a bigger budget - but Sheffield Wednesday finished only two places above us last season and, like us, missed out in the play offs. They have significantly strengthened in all areas of the pitch, whereas we have largely stuck with the same team. As the season wears on I think we will regret our lack of summer activity more and more.
Honestly, I can't stress enough how much of miss I think Hanlan is. He was signed for a fee, as an "option". Right now, we have no options.
The thing that concerns me the most is, we don't look like "Wycombe". If we are not playing to what we are good at, and we certainly aren't playing attractive football....what is our identity now? Something is fundamentally wrong.
We do lack pace, particularly important up front.
I’d say we’ve had a pretty good record under GA of curdling that process less miraculous and more bloody mindedness . That’s why we are not universally popular but we need to be on form and confident in the club ethos to do it, yesterday we were neither.
That said we have players in the squad that can trouble anyone in the league and a manager who has a proven track record of ending poor runs.
Hand on heart I can’t see us in the promotion race at the moment but I know anyone who tries to end mid table usually ends at the wrong end
No one will disagree. He’s not near the squad. I’ve not even seen him warming up before the games which is an early indicator someone is close. So let’s just guess and say it will be a month before he’s up to speed. Our whole summer transfer window was based upon optimism. Hanlan will be back. Bishop will be soon. JJ can maintain his historical standards. Horgan will be the player he ended last season and not the player of the previous 18 months. So here we are.
First time I've seen us this season yesterday and I agree with so much that's here already. @Brownie's post above is particularly excellent.
I'd add that it was pretty unforgivable yesterday how the moment we equalised we slowed the game down again and just handed the initiative back to Sheff Weds. Phil mentioned this himself on his commentary. We looked brilliant in that 10 minute spell between their goal and ours and consistently fed Mehmeti for the only time all game. It smacks of negativity to choose to bring the tempo down and ultimately allow Sheffield Weds to regroup and resettle.
I think I'm right in saying that our results away at top six teams are pretty poor, on the whole, over the last couple of seasons in L1. If we truly believe we're good enough for promotion we have to exert ourselves better in these matches, and not sit back and pray.